Spagunk Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I just finished a match today that was a nightmare to deal with. Now let me state that it was rocky to begin with (They posted 750 points online but it was actually a 1750 pt game) and had to scramble for extra units so what I brought was not optimal. However I don't believe I have anything that can take on the two deathstars I faced against. The first unit was a 750+ point Mechanicus unit with 4 robots, their handlers and some form of super mechanicus engineseer. All with apparently 4+ FNP, Str 6 AP3 Twin Linked weapons! In the same list, they also had a Iron Hands unit (5 + HQ) who all had 3+ invulnerable saves, bikes and a 4+ FNP. There was also a "It will not die" unit in the squad which I am guessing is the chapter master(???). They also had two squads of 5 men and two Las Razorbacks for objective grabbing. It was a nightmare! Because of the previously mentioned mistake, I ended up with a priest (Relic Powersword and Vitae), 5 sniper scouts, 10 man tactical marines, 2 10 man assault marine squads + 7man vanguard vet squad (Angels Wrath formation), a storm raven, a AutoLas Pred, and the Fragioso in drop pod. The reason for the haste is that we already started turn one before I was clued in that it was a 1750 game so I just grabbed anything that could deepstrike. Anyway, even with 27 jump infantry, I couldn't hardly scratch those Iron Hands. Also I had the full weight of a storm raven and a Fragioso trying to take down the mechanicus unit but could only manage to take a wound or two off which they promptly repaired. Thanks to majority toughness of 7! So given that this is the second Iron Hands unit like this i've faced locally, I am trying to look for ways I can survive. The only way I can think of is to have multiple threats. Thinking maybe a mephstar type unit (Meph + 8man DC in drop pod??), A Dante unit + Priest (Waffling on 5 men SangGuard or choppy command squad) with a third threat being Two baal preds and a vindi or AutoLas pred. The goal is to take down the mechanicus with my tanks, Use my dante to pick off annoyances and hit the Iron Hands unit with Meph. Hoping I can squeeze in that Storm Raven since his list had nothing that could take it down. Though his mechanicus having some sort of rule that lets him fire snapshots at BS 2 or something, they only managed to glance the thing for one hull point. Any Ideas? The only units I can probably paint up before my next battle (2000 pts) is a 10 man sternguard, a 5 man meltacide assault squad, some more tactical marines and possibly some more Sanguinary Guard. I do have some hammernators but I've already put it low on my list of things to paint. I don't suspect I will play against the same guy next time but if the group all use these types of tar-pit units, I need to find away around them or wipe them off the board. P.S. I did actually win the game because I score 4 objective points on my last turn which put me over my opponent by 1 (6 pts total to 5pts). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Sadly, BA dont really have much to go toe-to-toe with very fighty, hardy units. Terms with Sang Priest support are not a bad idea. Throw a chappy or libby in for additional support. Coming in far, far pricier though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/#findComment-4221120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 email the guy and ask if he will send you a copy of his exact list so you can see exactly waht he had in there/where teh special rules were. Dont phrase it as a 'i think you were cheating', but as a 'I'd like to get better and want to learn some of your army special rules so we have a better game next time' thing. Multiple Vindicators on that Mechanicus squad - seriously, if he's spent that many points on it it'd be valid to spend an equivalent amount of points on things that will splat it dead. Heck - vindiactor pie-plates on the Iron Hands squad too while you're at it. yes it wont be ID on teh chapter master, but if he has the Gorgons Chains, as soon as he starts to take wounds it gets weaker (looses special rules depending on how many wounds the bearer has suffered if i recall). Dont engage in close combat - he will win every time. Remember, it was the World Eaters who were ALWAYS CC ALL THE TIME, Blood Angels were always We are DAMN good at CC, but sometimes a Bolter to the face is much better! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/#findComment-4221134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Aye, this is where we start to shine... A little less than other codices. The bots are SCARY, especially when pointed up and the tech priest is actually one of the best HQs in the game for his cost being able to shoot, assault, buff units and take hella punishment too. Bots main weakness is thier speed - which we can avoid but killing them is super hard. Grav is good but between invulns, FNP, iwnd, priest repairs and a bloody reflector shield it makes it a tough prospect :( For the Iron Hands at least, one tactic could be just massed death company. Just roll so many dice (with Astorath) to just make them roll lots too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/#findComment-4221139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spagunk Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 I was thinking of buying Astorath in case this is going to be a constant problem. Though you only get the your special ability on 6's, it's still worthwhile to contemplate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/#findComment-4221159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I was thinking of buying Astorath in case this is going to be a constant problem. Though you only get the your special ability on 6's, it's still worthwhile to contemplate. Eh? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/#findComment-4221162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I was thinking of buying Astorath in case this is going to be a constant problem. Though you only get the your special ability on 6's, it's still worthwhile to contemplate. Eh? I think our brother is referring to Astorath's ability to instant death on a 6 to wound. Shame it doesn't ignore invulns too, that coulda been cool and more execution-y. Really though, that isn't worth it, it'll be a nice surprise at best. His rerolls for the DC to hit/ wound is why you take him. No eternal warrior and unwieldy make him a risky prospect in challenges. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/#findComment-4221166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjr Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 True story about those robots: My Stormraven comes on, carrying 6 Sanguinary Guard and Cassor. I fire 4 missiles into the robots. Apparantly they bounce back on 6's, which he rolled one of. So my own missile hit and pens. And then he roll a six, causing my Raven to crash and burn, killing 5 Sang. Guard and immobilizing Cassor. I just plain out quit the game after that (which I normally wouldn't do). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/#findComment-4221171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paikis Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I was thinking of buying Astorath in case this is going to be a constant problem. Though you only get the your special ability on 6's, it's still worthwhile to contemplate. Astorath works well as a beat-stick, but his real power is the Liturgies of Blood and Zealot special rules. Re-roll all the things! 15DC with 3 powerfists and Astorath will give you a simply rediculous number of attacks, all of them rerollable to-hit and to-wound Eh? Astorath's Power Axe insta-wounds/kills on 6s Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/#findComment-4221172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I was thinking of buying Astorath in case this is going to be a constant problem. Though you only get the your special ability on 6's, it's still worthwhile to contemplate.Eh? I think our brother is referring to Astorath's ability to instant death on a 6 to wound. Shame it doesn't ignore invulns too, that coulda been cool and more execution-y. Really though, that isn't worth it, it'll be a nice surprise at best. His rerolls for the DC to hit/ wound is why you take him. No eternal warrior and unwieldy make him a risky prospect in challenges. Pretty much this. Getting Killing Strike off (in fact, Astorath even surviving a challenge!) should be viewed as a bonus. What you're after Liturgies of Blood and yes, I'd actually toss in some power swords. Trouble is, Astorath's appearance in a squad of Death Company makes it target priority #1. Build a list around it and screen them well! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/#findComment-4221174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I was thinking of buying Astorath in case this is going to be a constant problem. Though you only get the your special ability on 6's, it's still worthwhile to contemplate. Astorath works well as a beat-stick, but his real power is the Liturgies of Blood and Zealot special rules. Re-roll all the things! 15DC with 3 powerfists and Astorath will give you a simply rediculous number of attacks, all of them rerollable to-hit and to-wound Eh? Astorath's Power Axe insta-wounds/kills on 6s Ninja'd Basically, the "eh?" is because I don't/didn't see Killing Strike as his special ability - hence the confusion. Was getting concerned the robots had/have some extremely weird de-buff going for them... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/#findComment-4221176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Antodeniel Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Because of the previously mentioned mistake, I ended up with a priest (Relic Powersword and Vitae), 5 sniper scouts, 10 man tactical marines, 2 10 man assault marine squads + 7man vanguard vet squad (Angels Wrath formation), a storm raven, a AutoLas Pred, and the Fragioso in drop pod. The reason for the haste is that we already started turn one before I was clued in that it was a 1750 game so I just grabbed anything that could deepstrike. First : After 1000 points, never go without a LoW, Seth or Dante, pick one of the two. Second : Since our codex is low in perf, always bring the stronger on the table, Bring the Death Company ! Third : For the HQ, prefer the 2+. Astorath, Fallen Tycho, Malakim Phoros, for exemples...quite cheap for the benefits. (Fallen Tycho provide an excellent defence for a Death Company with is 2+/4++...do not underestimate him, even if he slow the DC). Fourth : Think like a Blood Angels (Well, maybe a Flesh Tearers...), never care what your opponent bring, for whatever he could bring, you must strike to the "heart". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/#findComment-4221179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebs_evo7 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 15 dc with jet packs and three thunder hammers probably would have done the job Add in dante if your uncertain Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/#findComment-4221217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodTzar Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 BA doesnt have any cost-effective anti death star unit, besides DC just because the volume of attacks/wounds. Therefore I can see Astorath with 10 DC to work due to loads of wounds caused. Yet it is one trick pony, since every one knows how deadly they can be in CC. On the hand BA work wonders with allied IH, due to +1 FNP and our Biker Priest with IH Chapt Master on bike with all the bling riding along SS Comand Squad can be nasty surprise to strike back. Yet can work as a screen unit for the A+DC unit. Overall do not put too much expectations into the low bracket codex(BA Codex), it is not the place where the magic happens any more :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/#findComment-4221219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 It sounds like the OP was up against the Cohort Cybernetic Formation and an IH Bike Command Squad from the Clan Raukaan supplement. The former can be mugged in combat. A Furioso Librarian Dreadnought or even Mephiston (with support) can do the job provided there's something else in support to eat the returning power fist attacks. The latter you deal with the same way you deal with Hammernators - i.e weight of numbers. Overall do not put too much expectations into the low bracket codex(BA Codex), it is not the place where the magic happens any more Speak for yourself. We can still pull our weight, it's just not as easy as before. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/#findComment-4221236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodTzar Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Overall do not put too much expectations into the low bracket codex(BA Codex), it is not the place where the magic happens any more Speak for yourself. We can still pull our weight, it's just not as easy as before. Sorry for the hurt feelings; it is just the way I see our codex in the age of fish :) I never said we are not capable any more, just that we dont have that many fancy formations , discounts, cheese as others to work with Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/#findComment-4221275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spagunk Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 My last two definite wins were by playing the objectives which I think we excel at. Regarding my choice in units: I came to the game with a 750 list because online it said "750". So I asked my opponent if he wanted to see my list and he said no then proceeded to deploy his army. He had a low model count so I figured they were that cheap. Then when he started rattling off what they could do, I broke into a sweat. He finished his 1st turn and went to the restroom. I literally sat there flummoxed and couldn't figure out a way to do anything. It wasn't until someone came by that they pointed out how few models I had for a 1750 game. Very much a "Wait, what did you say?" moment. So I just rushed into my bag and took out anything that could deep strike so that technically they weren't in play. It was the best I could quickly add up 1000 extra points. Luckily my reroll reserves trait brought everything in on turn two so I wasn't hurt too bad. The Vanguard Vets were definitely NOT optimal with 2 power axes, a power sword and a power fist. They were painted and built in out previous codex when they could still charge after deep-striking so they were my deathstar from back then. Perhaps I should double up on DC: Foot DC (The cheaper squad) and then Jump Pack DC. The trouble with the Jump Pack DC is that they are not modeled cheaply: Swords, fists and others. I honestly just slapped them together for the fun of it rather than the optimal loadout. That and the other 5 DC are modeled after the DeathStorm DC so really expensive (probably over 500 points for all 10!). I still think vindicators+baal preds would help with my shooting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/#findComment-4221318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Any options for getting a Psyker with Telepathy in there? High toughness and good armour are worthless vs Psychic Shriek. Mehpy and a Command squad in a Land Raider might do well against the Robots. Sanguine Sword means Mehpy will be hitting at S10 and the Champion can eat any challenges for him. All that S6 shooting will not scratch a Land Raider and Mehpy can tank AP3 shooting with his 2+ save if necessary. Having said that, I am not very familiar with AdMech and I don't know what anti-tank he had available so a LR may not be optimal. A Vindicator or 2 would certainly not hurt when facing those Iron Hands. S10 will negate their FNP and your overcharged engines will get you into range quickly. Beyond that our regular beat-sticks of Death Company, Dante and a smattering of support should serve you well. Another option is allied Imperial Knight. A Warden would be a good choice as the Avenger cannon will make short work of the Iron Hands as it advances, even with FNP. Once you get into charge range, the Reaper Chainsword will murder Robots and Iron Hands with equal efficiency. You will be wounding robots on a 2+ and causing D3 wounds each time. On a 6 you will rip them apart. Maybe even upgrade to a Thunderstrike Gauntlet for added LOLs and throw those robots at the rest of the army after you crush them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/#findComment-4221347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Skyhammer formation, lots of grav cannons, melta shots and then assault with asm and keep them bogged down until they die. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/#findComment-4221358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spagunk Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 Blood angels don't get grav cannons or access to the skyhammer formation without using the SM codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/#findComment-4221360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Blood angels don't get grav cannons or access to the skyhammer formation without using the SM codex. I know but so what you can ally an SM Skyhammer formation. Alternatively jus load up on plasma cannons for extra lulz. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/#findComment-4221366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Blood angels don't get grav cannons or access to the skyhammer formation without using the SM codex. I know but so what you can ally an SM Skyhammer formation. Alternatively jus load up on plasma cannons for extra lulz. It's not even allying ;) Pedantry aside, there's no shame in taking a non-BA Formation/Imperial Knight/Assassin to supplement your force. It's fluffy (The Imperium campaigns together more often than not), it offers flexibility and it makes up the shortfalls in our Codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/#findComment-4221377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spagunk Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 Blood angels don't get grav cannons or access to the skyhammer formation without using the SM codex. I know but so what you can ally an SM Skyhammer formation. Alternatively jus load up on plasma cannons for extra lulz. It's not even allying Pedantry aside, there's no shame in taking a non-BA Formation/Imperial Knight/Assassin to supplement your force. It's fluffy (The Imperium campaigns together more often than not), it offers flexibility and it makes up the shortfalls in our Codex. Aside from the fact that I don't have those codexes of course. 35-50 bucks for the codex plus associated models (150 for the Knight) is a bit hard to swallow. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/#findComment-4221381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Blood angels don't get grav cannons or access to the skyhammer formation without using the SM codex.I know but so what you can ally an SM Skyhammer formation. Alternatively jus load up on plasma cannons for extra lulz. It's not even allying Pedantry aside, there's no shame in taking a non-BA Formation/Imperial Knight/Assassin to supplement your force. It's fluffy (The Imperium campaigns together more often than not), it offers flexibility and it makes up the shortfalls in our Codex. Aside from the fact that I don't have those codexes of course. 35-50 bucks for the codex plus associated models (150 for the Knight) is a bit hard to swallow.Well without knowing what you have its not easy stumbling on something that would work and happen to be in your collection, but I guess you could always try charging into the unit with a thunder hammer storm shield captain on a bike and his grav rifle bike squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/#findComment-4221389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 @Karhedronuk Ad Mech have some of the best anti tank going with heavy Arc Rifle breachers causing mass haywire from a long range. His list didn't have them, but it was still there. That and bots can throw out smash attacks If need be Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315868-help-with-deathstars/#findComment-4221398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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