b1soul Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Magnus essentially backstabbed his own Legion at the Razing of Prospero...is there any reason why his sons don't hate his guts? I know at the very end he emerges from his chamber to offer symbolic defiance against Russ and the SW...but far too little and far too late. He essentially let...no...he essentially assisted the slaughter of his sons. You'd think that there would be a significant number of anti-Magnus TSons post-Heresy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkseren1ty Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Pretty sure he tried to fight Russ and got messed up. Then he teleported himself and his legion away. Didn't he love his legion? He actually ignored the emperors commands because he loved his legion so much. He lost his eye to stop their rampant mutations. Why would he help kill them? Edit: NVM, I see what you mean. He didnt want em to fight against the wolves as penance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/#findComment-4222009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 He didn't help his legion until the very end. Even if he had beaten Russ in their duel, the TSons were already beyond screwed. 90% of the legion was gone. Before he joined the battle, he was lowering defences and killing his own TSon captains. If I were Ahriman, I would hate him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/#findComment-4222046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzyeye01 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 From what I know, Magnus lowered the defences and such but was being discreet about it as he felt that the Thousands Sons deserved their punishment only he didn't know that Horus had whispered in Russ' ear to get him to kill the Thousand Sons instead of capturing them. He did it discreetly so that his sons didn't know about his part in weakening them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/#findComment-4222055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I think they do hate him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/#findComment-4222079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 What I find really stupid about the whole thing is that the 1k sons and Magnus were ultimately aware that it was the treachery of Horus and Chaos that led to the destruction of their Legion, yet they still hate the Imperium and align themselves with Chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/#findComment-4222105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 So far, right up to the latest Heresy book, Magnus still is undecided. I presume we'll get wind of his decision soon. I hope at least. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/#findComment-4222114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 There's thousands of Legionaries (or there were before the Razing of Prospero), some hate/despise him I'm sure, some probably think he was right and that they deserved extinction and every opinion in between. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/#findComment-4222354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Shadow Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Ahriman may know that Magnus let the attack happen but do the rest? I know they aren't stupid but with how they looked at the Primarchs I wouldn't have thought they would think it possible that he would betray them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/#findComment-4222596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 No primarch ever shafted his legion as hard as Magnus on Prospero. Yeah, other Primarchs purged their legions of Imperial loyalists...but Magnus almost extinguished his legion via his actions. Only his teleportation trick ensured that a small fraction survived Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/#findComment-4222716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozo69pd Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 He thought the exterminatus was the emperors verdict, and was going to take his punishment like a good boy. He also said he didn't want to fight the SW forces because their numbers would be needed against Horus. I certainly think a lot of Tsons warbands do hate Magnus (I know I do, but I enjoy Ahriman. That poor guy always tries so hard then gets D***ed by Tzeentch) he really only controls the planet of sorcerers, lots of rubricae, lots of cultists, and some dark mechanicum. In the Ahriman trilogy there is mention of part of Ahriman's mind that wishes he were still part of the Imperium, which I think is interesting, but they have all fallen too far. I hope he does end up conquering the black library and ascends to demi-god-dom Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/#findComment-4222725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 If Magnus had done nothing, would that have changed the fact that the Wolves came to Prospero for blood? That even after Prospero was razed, the Wolves continued to destroy all traces of the XV Legion by attacking worlds of civilians who had done nothing except allow a garrison of the Thousand Sons onto their planet? No. And that's what matters. The majority of Thousand Sons don't know about Magnus' actions. In fact, the only one we can confirm knows about it, kept his mouth shut. So all the Thousand Sons know, is that they were attacked with no provocation. Sure, they might have seen it as not much of a surprise considering they broke the Edict, but that's not the point as far as they're concerned. To them, the Wolves drew first blood and then went beyond any and all reason to slaughter world after world with little to no justification to do so. So most of them, simply do not care about any involvement Magnus had in allowing the Razing to happen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/#findComment-4222733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozo69pd Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Very true. I actually liked the space wolves a little until I read those books, then I converted them into thousand sons base debris lol. I just think Magnus is so indecisive though. I understand knowledge can be a burden and trying to decide the best course of action but come on. If he accepted his fate and that he had bargained with tzeentch to stop the mutation of his legion he could have just accepted Tzeentch before the execution and saved a lot of heartache. That's the path he walked down anyways. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/#findComment-4222804 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Yes, but we don't know why. If it wasn't for Tzeentch provoking the Wolves into attacking and then screwing with the Sons' powers, the Razing would have gone differently, if it happened at all. The reality is, Magnus has literally the least motivation to join Chaos and yet he goes the farthest in joining Chaos. There really needs to be a story explaining that since right now, he should be the repentant hero trying to fix the wrongs of his past, yet we know he ends up becoming the damned Felix Faust. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/#findComment-4222825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 As far as I can tell, he ascended to daemonhood the instant he made the deal for the legion to get teleported to the planet of the sorcerers. It explains a lot, and how his shards got scattered everywhere as part of the same cataclysmic event. And why confused aspects of him keep showing up all over the place in Heresy stories. His appearance in Scars might be the best evidence of this. SOME SHARDS of Magnus side with Horus, yes. Many probably don't, but the parts that do lead enough of his Legion to Horus that a chunk end up at the Siege of Terra and maybe at some other actions before that. I'm kind of thinking Mortarion ascends the same way the very second he makes his deal after his fleet is stranded. I don't think there's much of an in-between where he's pledged to Nurgle and not a Daemon Prince. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/#findComment-4222839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 You obviously haven't read all the books up to date? Marty is pretty much Nurgle without being stranded. Another who needs fleshing out Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/#findComment-4222862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 You obviously haven't read all the books up to date? Marty is pretty much Nurgle without being stranded. Another who needs fleshing out Thanks but I definitely have, and Vengeful Spirit is godawful. I meant full-on bloated awfulness Nurglified full of the rot w/out being a Daemon Prince. I can see how that isn't clear from my post though, so my bad Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/#findComment-4222870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 It's all good I understand. Just tired of Fulgrim getting all the attention Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/#findComment-4222941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Fulgrim gets attention? :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/#findComment-4222942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arac Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 If and when "The crimson King" and FWs book about Prospero get released I think many of those Points will be cleared up. Including mine: Were there notable battles between prospero and terra At what Point did the sons paint their armour blue? How Long after Terra did Ahrimans ritual take place? etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/#findComment-4222960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 If and when "The crimson King" and FWs book about Prospero get released I think many of those Points will be cleared up. Including mine: Were there notable battles between prospero and terra At what Point did the sons paint their armour blue? How Long after Terra did Ahrimans ritual take place? etc. 1) yes 2) After Ahriman jacked Amon's cult or whenever, really 3) a handful of years. This could mean ANYTHING! Because a handful of years in the eye of terror doesn't mean jack elsewhere. 4) yes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/#findComment-4222962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arac Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Do you have a reference for 2.) ? ... and 4) :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/#findComment-4222969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Do you have a reference for 2.) ? ... and 4) Not in particular, it's off the top of my head. I think #2 is the first Ahriman book, and #4 too Crap, I have these things in ebook format. I'll edit with refs if I find anything. Otherwise you get nothing. nah, found it. Ahriman remade his Rubricae into blue: “Now it is done, he thought. Now there is only one way, and that way is forward. Ahriman raised his hands. Flames leapt from the floor. Red lacquer peeled from the armour of every Rubricae and sorcerer. The tatters of paint spun in the flames. Polished silver armour plate reflected the fire for a long moment, shimmering like the surface of burning oil. Then the flames flickered blue, and the silver armour became polished sapphire. Ahriman looked across the ranks of blue armour. Somewhere at the back of his mind, he heard a raven call.” Excerpt From: John French. “Ahriman: Exile.” alt+F is powerful, people. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/#findComment-4222974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Actually number two would be incorrect. Or rather, inaccurate. Because according to Khayon, he's been running around with blue armor since the Rubric. Not to mention there's Ignis with his Orange and Black, and then there's the dude from the short story that Ahriman had assassinated who was wearing green. And IIRC, the Sons at the Planet of Sorcerers were wearing blue, even though they had not been a part of Amon's little get together. So the only thing we can definitively say is that some started wearing blue as early as the Rubric, but apparently not all of them. Some like Amon, either stayed red or went back to red following the Rubric to show their separation from the Legion, which makes total sense since Amon was planning on destroying the XVth Legion and everyone who had ever been a part of it in some grand massacre-suicide. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/#findComment-4223009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arac Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Thanks you guys. Now i have to find a thread I can hijack to ask when the WE turned khorne-red. (I guess it would be somewhere between the Elevation of angron to demonhood and terra.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315913-wouldnt-surviving-tsons-hate-magnus/#findComment-4223153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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