Hesh Kadesh Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Giving him a shred Paragon Blade isn't 'special enough'. A Paragon Blade with a S10 charge would be nice. Auto hit and run... Not sure I like that idea. I'd leave that option there, but make it more beneficial for him to charge to encourage it. But if he charges a unit, demolishes them, but they survive with only 1 or 2 models forcing him to hnr A6? Even angron only has that with Paired Weapons. I9? Well, I8 is Fulgrims level, and he gets bonus attacks based on his speed as a unique mechanic. Plus, Fulgrims thing is that he is the fastest amd the duellist. WS8 i8 is pretty much that, with only Fulgrim being his equal in game terms. In regards to the granularity of stats, rember that between a Space Marine and an Imperial Guard is the same difference. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315928-how-will-the-khan-rank-on-the-table/page/2/#findComment-4223172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Some of the suggestions here make him too strong. Remember he would likely be on a jetbike which already grants him a multitude of advantages over all the other Primarchs. You don't want him to cost 500+ points, after all. I9 is too fast, he's not more nimble than Fulgrim, and he certainly won't have more attacks than Angron. Why is his sword better than other Primarch weapons, he's never mentioned as having the finest gear? His statline should be average with maybe 1 less wound. In exchange he's mounted on a bike and gains +1 toughness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315928-how-will-the-khan-rank-on-the-table/page/2/#findComment-4223177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Some of the suggestions here make him too strong. Remember he would likely be on a jetbike which already grants him a multitude of advantages over all the other Primarchs. You don't want him to cost 500+ points, after all. I9 is too fast, he's not more nimble than Fulgrim, and he certainly won't have more attacks than Angron. Why is his sword better than other Primarch weapons, he's never mentioned as having the finest gear? His statline should be average with maybe 1 less wound. In exchange he's mounted on a bike and gains +1 toughness. No primarch will be mounted. This much was announced when they started the series. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315928-how-will-the-khan-rank-on-the-table/page/2/#findComment-4223205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Quoted by who? Lol Sabguinius, Horus, Guilliman, the Lion... They've all been quoted as being the best at some point! Sanguinius says to Fulgrim and the Khan "You both handle a blade like gods". Why would the Khan not be faster than Fulgrim? Speed is the Khan's thing, not Fulgrim's. Fulgrim is about perfect technique. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315928-how-will-the-khan-rank-on-the-table/page/2/#findComment-4223232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I'm not sure how that quotes says he is faster. If Fulgrim is all about the perfect strike, why does he not have a single WS10, +1 to hit, reroll misses, Strength D rerolling 1's on the Destroyer Chart? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315928-how-will-the-khan-rank-on-the-table/page/2/#findComment-4223265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I'm not sure how that quotes says he is faster. If Fulgrim is all about the perfect strike, why does he not have a single WS10, +1 to hit, reroll misses, Strength D rerolling 1's on the Destroyer Chart? Because FW hasn't done the Lion yet ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315928-how-will-the-khan-rank-on-the-table/page/2/#findComment-4223272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
goosey_j Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 The Khan reckoned he'd have Fulgrim in a duel. I reckon he would too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315928-how-will-the-khan-rank-on-the-table/page/2/#findComment-4223285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Even if Fulgrim would beat the Khan...it shouldn't be because Fulgrim is faster Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315928-how-will-the-khan-rank-on-the-table/page/2/#findComment-4223298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 You have sources to back absokute assertation of course? Or are we talking on your headcanon again? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315928-how-will-the-khan-rank-on-the-table/page/2/#findComment-4223304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I'm not sure how that quotes says he is faster. If Fulgrim is all about the perfect strike, why does he not have a single WS10, +1 to hit, reroll misses, Strength D rerolling 1's on the Destroyer Chart? Someone`s getting carried away Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315928-how-will-the-khan-rank-on-the-table/page/2/#findComment-4223330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Guys lets not get into the "my daddy can beat your daddy discussion" again :P Unfortunately, there are like 3 or 4 primarchs that have near identical traits that could honestly come down to an author's wishes in a story and it'd be considered due to luck as they have identical skill. Honestly? Fulgrim and Khan will have near similiar cc abilities. Fulgrim just acts like a dick because he's confident in his abilities (rightly so) and the Khan is a dick by being passively aggressive "I can beat you but I don't have to say anything because I think I'm cool." Someone like Angron or Sanguinius, who are objectively better in duels, need to come in and smack the two upside the head :P Or else it'll become a duel of words. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315928-how-will-the-khan-rank-on-the-table/page/2/#findComment-4223334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 There have been no comparisons of speed for Fulgrim and the Khan. It's not because the Khan thinks himself better that he is or vice versa. Arguments that start with "I feel" are not arguments. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315928-how-will-the-khan-rank-on-the-table/page/2/#findComment-4223342 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I'm not sure how that quotes says he is faster. If Fulgrim is all about the perfect strike, why does he not have a single WS10, +1 to hit, reroll misses, Strength D rerolling 1's on the Destroyer Chart? Someone`s getting carried away Helpful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315928-how-will-the-khan-rank-on-the-table/page/2/#findComment-4223366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I'm not sure how that quotes says he is faster. If Fulgrim is all about the perfect strike, why does he not have a single WS10, +1 to hit, reroll misses, Strength D rerolling 1's on the Destroyer Chart? Someone`s getting carried away Helpful. As much as you can expect with hyperbolic ideas. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315928-how-will-the-khan-rank-on-the-table/page/2/#findComment-4223422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'Karon Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 Honestly basing skills and stats off what the Primarchs said about each other is probably not the best idea. I mean how often do people say thing about other people that are 100% accurate? I think that as most people have been saying that high WS, high attacks, and high Initiative should all be there for the Khan. No primarch will be mounted. This much was announced when they started the series. I think they should at least let Khan have the option for a Jetbike. He is the Primarch of the Ultimate Astartes Biker Gang White Scars after all. Still I can see why putting a Primarch on a bike would be rather problematic in game terms. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315928-how-will-the-khan-rank-on-the-table/page/2/#findComment-4223429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 A single accurate Strength D attack is hyberbolic? It costs the same as a Knight. Knights have 4-5 Strength D attacks for the same. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315928-how-will-the-khan-rank-on-the-table/page/2/#findComment-4223445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skalpynock Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I guess the jetbike will be an option, the same way the Ætos Dio and the Tormentor are. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315928-how-will-the-khan-rank-on-the-table/page/2/#findComment-4223446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 A single accurate Strength D attack is hyberbolic? It costs the same as a Knight. Knights have 4-5 Strength D attacks for the same. Going from perfect technique to strength D hits with a one handed sword is hyperbolic yes. Comparing a Primarch to a Knight. Because they clearly share the same function. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315928-how-will-the-khan-rank-on-the-table/page/2/#findComment-4223462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Dunno, seemed to work for taking down Ferrus. I'd normally say Instant Death, but Eternal Warrior counters that. Perhaps a blow which just doesn't effect vehicles? Would that warm your cockles more? And yes, in this instance, yes they are. A Primarch has a weaker attack and shooting ability in return for army buffing; which (psst, let's just keep this between us) isn't the equal of actually taking any other Lord of War. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315928-how-will-the-khan-rank-on-the-table/page/2/#findComment-4223494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I disagree with that. Firstly, at 2k or below you're limited to a Primarch, Typhon or that crappy Malcador. Depending on your force and tactics, a Primarch may well be a decent option ahead of a Typhon. At 3k+ I can potentially field two Lords of War, or a Warhound but those games aren't the regular. But if you want D everywhere, 40k is more your game! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315928-how-will-the-khan-rank-on-the-table/page/2/#findComment-4223573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Disagreeing doesn't make you correct, but feel free. At 2k you are limited to exactly what the rules say, not just the above. Sub-Orbital Flyer wings etc or the rules presented for Imperial Armours 1-8 2nd Edition (being the most recent production of those rules contained within). Depending on Force and tactics; please. Enlighten me. A few niche uses of Post dropsite Corax or Guilliman, but I can't think of much better use for a lord of war slot which just flatout erases one unit a turn. At 3K, they're not as common as they should be. It is when the fame opens up. 1750 to 3500. Midpoint of that is 2675. Bit of an on number. Nearest is 2.5k, but you have a points bloat in units to contend with. 3k allows for epic battles with lots of fun stuff, while still allowing a bit of tactical decision list making. The lower the points, the more brutal you 'have' to be with you units. After all I could ally in a pair of Knights no drama, on top of an Ac'd Typhon, Aquila Strongpoint Cannon or missile, and still have room for a 600ish point force to take objectives at 2400k. Or a full knight list, running 5 knights at 1850. As for wanting Destroyer everywhere, I am talking about a UNIQUE underpowered model trading all of their attacks (8-9 I8 WS8 S7 AP2 Instant Deathing on a 5 attacks, mind), and I'M the one wanting hyperbole? C'mon guys, I know you're more capable than this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315928-how-will-the-khan-rank-on-the-table/page/2/#findComment-4223634 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 ++Alright folks, we're getting a little too heated over hypotheticals. Go take a break and chill out for a bit.++ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315928-how-will-the-khan-rank-on-the-table/page/2/#findComment-4223665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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