Dark Angel Strengths

[Fractal_Mind]

Hello brothers,

 

I'm new to the DA and to the game of 40k. I'm trying to assess what the DA are good at and what aspects of the game they are lacking. 

 

These are the three strengths I've identified and hopefully the community can help me add to this list:

 

• Grim Resolve - All of our units are stubborn, this coupled with the boost to overwatch, should enable us to hold objectives longer
• Ravenwing - These units re-roll jink saves. The Dark Shroud seems like an auto include to maximize this special rule.
• Deathwing - Fearless. Again helps with the holding of objectives

That's what I've come up with using my limited knowledge and experience. I realize all I've done is list the special rules, but understanding how to use these rules and what part of the game where they will become critical will help all of us play the DA effectively.

 

What are your ideas on our strengths/weaknesses and builds/unit choices that maximizes our strengths? Thanks! 

[egon1six]

Please take the time to search this forum for your answers. There are a plethora of topics that will suite your need. I, however, do not have specific threads in mind at this time. Happy hunting!

[Frater Cornelius]

Strengths? Looking so damn awesome and having so much style that you will have difficulties looking at something else. Also, some solid Formations.

 

Weaknesses? Pretty much inferior to Space Marines except when looking at a literal Black Knight spam.

[Father Mehman]

We shoot rather well.

Are you looking for a Competitive list, Fluffy (story heavy with more importance placed on fielding an actual army rather than playing with different-but-same units), or something in-between? For a full on Fluff list you'd need different models than a Competitive list, for example.

Figure out what kind of list you want and someone can help you with it.

Also, watch out for that Immersturm guy. I hear his genius makes him a bit wonky ! Nah, he's one to listen to on any subject of the hobby- no lie.

In the end, we shoot rather well.

[Frater Cornelius]

We shoot rather well.

Are you looking for a Competitive list, Fluffy (story heavy with more importance placed on fielding an actual army rather than playing with different-but-same units), or something in-between? For a full on Fluff list you'd need different models than a Competitive list, for example.

Figure out what kind of list you want and someone can help you with it.

Also, watch out for that Immersturm guy. I hear his genius makes him a bit wonky ! Nah, he's one to listen to on any subject of the hobby- no lie.

In the end, we shoot rather well.

Heh, thanks for the kind words. Though I am not quite a Paragon of the hobby. I still fail at every single bloody attempts to play DA they way I like them. It is an eternal torment to want to play an army so badly yet fail every time :D

[Knight Angels]

Greenwing is good in holding objectives in the midfield. Deathwing is pointsheavy and not really that special (apart from the knights but you have to give them a landraider and that is already 500 points. But they are very nasty!)

 

Ravenwing brings the biggest strenghts thanks to jink and high mobilty.

 

A must have is the rwcs with darkshroud and librarian and/or inter. Chaplain.

 

It always depends on your tactics , the mission and your enemy. What you are looking at is unit- synergy

[SnakeChisler]

The Speeder formation is a real strength of the codex as are the unique rules given to the DS

 

Also

 

The Librarius conclave

 

I've used the conclave in a number of ways and I believe they will be very useful to the Double Lions Blade especially when dealing with the new Assault from Deep strike were beginning to see also having fearless in units is underrated, a basic Librarian at 65 points for 2 wounds and a power weapon thats able to mind worm at 24" whats not to like

 

I think we were big winners in terms of flavor the Combo between the Dark Shroud & Interomancy actually shows a good degree of thought went into the Codex

 

The Pimp options are awesome from the hobby point of view

[Frater Cornelius]

Ravenwing Support Squadron is definitely a very solid Formation. Good fire support and deep strike protection. Given the cover stacking, you also do not need to jink very often.

 

Also pretty solid Formation is the Hammer of Caliban. Unless you are facing D or Haywire spam this one will wreck the opponent. AV13 tanks with an AV14 tank. A Vindicator Squadron comes to mind ;)

 

As for Greenwing. I really want to like them. But they do not bring anything relevant to the table for their cost. The weakest link in the army. If it wasn't so pivotal, it wouldn't be so bad.

They become better in the Lion's Blade, but playin horde Marines isn't my thing :D

[dalleron]

IMO, if you want to use Greenwing, they are best used as a min max unit, 5 with your weapon of choice in a razorback/rhino. This leaves you more points for the other things to stuff in your list.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Also pretty solid Formation is the Hammer of Caliban. Unless you are facing D or Haywire spam this one will wreck the opponent. AV13 tanks with an AV14 tank. A Vindicator Squadron comes to mind

As for Greenwing. I really want to like them. But they do not bring anything relevant to the table for their cost. The weakest link in the army. If it wasn't so pivotal, it wouldn't be so bad.

They become better in the Lion's Blade, but playin horde Marines isn't my thing

I am the polar opposite of you. I consider the Hammer of Caliban formation bad because of land raider tax and because any of the 3 options you pick will have big shortcomings. 3 whirlwinds don't mix good with a land raider, 3 Vindicators don't mix with land raider and they all have to shoot the same target, 3 predators with lascannons and the LR is overkill shooting 95% of the targets.

But the Greenwing aren't really bad what they do. They take objective, provide fire support and thanks to improved BS overwatch, they can cause nasty surprise to assaulting troops. And the more demi's you have, the better they get!

[march10k]

Our greatest strength is the synergy between our first and second companies.  Combine a Ravenwing Attack Squadron with a Deathwing Strike Force, and you get terminators that appear when and where you want.  This lets you deliver a hammer at precisely the right place and time while maintaining a highly mobile black clad reaction force.

[FlamingDeth]

Also pretty solid Formation is the Hammer of Caliban. Unless you are facing D or Haywire spam this one will wreck the opponent. AV13 tanks with an AV14 tank. A Vindicator Squadron comes to mind

As for Greenwing. I really want to like them. But they do not bring anything relevant to the table for their cost. The weakest link in the army. If it wasn't so pivotal, it wouldn't be so bad.

They become better in the Lion's Blade, but playin horde Marines isn't my thing

I am the polar opposite of you. I consider the Hammer of Caliban formation bad because of land raider tax and because any of the 3 options you pick will have big shortcomings. 3 whirlwinds don't mix good with a land raider, 3 Vindicators don't mix with land raider and they all have to shoot the same target, 3 predators with lascannons and the LR is overkill shooting 95% of the targets.

But the Greenwing aren't really bad what they do. They take objective, provide fire support and thanks to improved BS overwatch, they can cause nasty surprise to assaulting troops. And the more demi's you have, the better they get!

The land raider is integral to the hammer, I've had it tank so much firepower that its ridiculous. It doesn't even really matter what kind it is, it increases the survivability of the vindicators behind it significantly.

[Frater Cornelius]

@ Lucifer - To each his own ;) In fact, I would be extremely grateful if someone could explain to me how to run non-Lion's Blade Tacs in a list and be effective. All I could think of is either 10 naked dudes in a Pod or 5 with Plasma/CP in Razorback, neither of which really do much, especially next to heavy hitters like CS in Pod, RWCS and RWSS.

[march10k]

The hammer with lascannon predators is good precisely because the firepower is overkill against most targets...well, to be more precise, because there are targets that little else can handle.  Sure, five godhammers is kind of wasted on a rhino...but you'll be really glad to have them against a knight!  And, yes, the idea of the land raider tanking for the squadron is solid gold...especially with the whirlwinds...Whirlwinds that can sit in plain sight and not be targeted because you have to kill the AV14 behemoth with 4HP first...that's awesome. 

[cypherthefallenangel]

Im not sold on the "Hammer of Caliban" its way to many points to just take out probably one tank/MC a turn. For similar points you could take a warhound or 2 I Knights that would do a better job.

The real strength of this codex are RWSS, RWCS, and RWBKs. Those units stand out as true superstars in this meta. The rest meh.

[SnakeChisler]

Re - Hammer of Caliban

 

I played a club comp at the weekend where Captain Shield Eternal Tanked over 50 shots (White Scars / Iron Hands combo) bike guys still get FNP on Las cannons

The tanks would have been dead by turn 2, he backed it up with a couple of Storm Talons which would have raked side armour

 

The Ravenwing list I played at the weekend would have killed them by turn 3 with zero casualties, Warlord Trait of +3 with Raven rapid deployment would have meant I could have swanned up to you with 2+ 2+ auto jink and fired my plasma as well and that's wasting turn 1 in reserve. With Scout and 12" move the speeders would have singled out 1 of them anyways.

 

The Dark Eldar guy I played spammed loads of small high mobility squads all with haywire and lance some with Night shields all cheap as chips your only killing 1 per turn as you all have to fire at the same thing because there a unit?

 

I also played against the green tide and well Las isn't going nowhere against 150+ boyz, one of the other guys was playing Nids they would have flown over the top of you and pummeled the rear armor, the Necron player would have ripped it to shreds with his wraiths and Gauss

 

The lists were single codex mostly, non were unfluffy and I can't think of 1 that would have been unable to cope with it the Nids maybe with the Land Raider but the 3 tanks would be long gone side armor 11 is pretty flimsy and easy to get angles on

 

Tactically there are many ways to get round having to resolve shots on the Raider I'd just make sure my speeders couldn't see it and use terrain to LOS block onto the 1 I wanted to pick off

[march10k]

Re - Hammer of Caliban

 

I played a club comp at the weekend where Captain Shield Eternal Tanked over 50 shots (White Scars / Iron Hands combo) bike guys still get FNP on Las cannons

The tanks would have been dead by turn 2, he backed it up with a couple of Storm Talons which would have raked side armour

 

 

Oh, look, a plausible counter.  I guess fielding the hammer is a bad idea.  By the same reasoning, because you might run into a culexus, an invisi-star is also a bad build.  And so is everything else.  No gaming for you!

 

Im not sold on the "Hammer of Caliban" its way to many points to just take out probably one tank/MC a turn. For similar points you could take a warhound or 2 I Knights that would do a better job.

 

 

It is pretty expensive in light of the fact that they all have to shoot at the same thing (barring POTMS, split fire from a techie, etc).  But it is also listed in the DA codex.  Sure, superheavy walkers do it better...so do a lot of things not in the codex.  Superheavy walkers are strengths...but they are not, to bring us back on topic, Dark Angel Strengths.

[FlamingDeth]

Tactically there's lots of ways to avoid letting things get side shots on the vindicators. A lot of that can be prevented with good terrain usage. I usually have rhinos blocking LoS on the flanks. Turn 1 I break off the tech marine to go man an Icarus behind an ADL with some devs, and the tank hunter interceptor on that takes out most aircraft coming piecemeal in pretty reliably. It could be that your meta is just really heavy on stuff that specifically counters the hammer, in which case, darn.

 

EDIT: Also, my ignores cover apocolyptic blast does not care about 2 up rerollable jinks.

[PhilB]

Re; The Hammer of Caliban. Depends what you're trying to achieve.

Yes, I'm also not that big a fan of parking up 3 Whirlwinds/Predators with a Las-Raider in the back field and pummelling 1 unit per turn.

But the Vindicator squadron with a Crusader cruising up the middle of the board is fun and hard for the enemy to ignore. Last time I played this it was with a double demi Lion's Blade including a CC tooled command squad in the LR with Azreal, Ezekiel, the Company Master, Chaplain & the Techmarine with a harness. The Hammer's flanks were blocked by a bunch of Tactical squads in Razorbacks with TL assault cannons.

Throw in a Dark Talon (or 2) if you like and you've got a force ready to take the fight to the enemy, not my usual play style with the DA but it was fun!

 

But as for the strengths of the codex, most of the things I've noticed and like in the codex have already been covered;

• The RWSS is a solid choice,
• The synergy between RW & DW is strong and a lot of fun to use.
• Full BS overwatch isn't always of use but when it is you'll be stoked you have it!
• Interromancy is awesome.
• RWCS & DWKs a pretty tough and usually wreck anything you slam them into. Not to mention the models looks awesome.
• Dark Talons, 'nuff said.

[march10k]

I really like interromancy, but it has a shortcoming.  Short range and witchfires...best used by a bike libby in a shooty squadron.  On a termie, you'll find yourself stuck in and unable to use your powers.