Veteran tactical squad questions

[Redtoof]

Hi all

 

So I've recently taken the plunge into 30k by buying some books, with a view on those lovely new (cheap) plastics to start my force. One thing I'm looking at is veteran tactical squads. Seems like a flexible, useful unit to be made with the tactical marines. But I have a couple of questions I couldn't find answers for.

 

Firstly, the Sniper special rule. According to forgeworld you get to use the regular strength and ap of a weapon if it is better to wound/vs armour saves. However no mention is made against vehicles. Are sniper meltaguns for instance limited to strength 4 vs vehicles?

 

Second question. In the book under the Veteran Tactics rule it says you must pick one rule 'before the game begins'. Does this mean it is written into your army list (I assume this is the case, but it is an odd wording for an army list option) or that you can take your pick after you have seen your opponent's army, but before rolling for mission/warlord traits etc?

 

Thanks, hope you can help :)

[Caillum]

RAI, Sniper Veteran meltaguns should be used as per their proper profile, i.e. Strength 8, AP1, melta.

 

RAW, it doesn't work that way, but if someone tried telling me my meltaguns were Strength 4 against vehicles, I guarantee I'll never bother playing a game with them again. Seriously... there's rules technicalities and then there's common sense. :)

 

As for the "Veteran Tactics" rule, it reads like you pick it once you see your opponent, i.e. around Warlord Trait rolling time. It doesn't specify this like the Alpha Legion's "Mutable Tactics" rule, but that would be my thinking. Could be wrong here, and I'm sure some tournaments would clarify this either way.

[Iron Dude]

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_7th_Edition.pdf

 

read this. its pretty clear stated and uses the meltagun as example.

[Redtoof]

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_7th_Edition.pdf

 

read this. its pretty clear stated and uses the meltagun as example.

I had read that, it is what prompted me to ask the question. The example talks about to wound rolls and ap values, but makes no mention of what you do when targeting vehicles. This heavily implies, but not outright states, that you should use the better stats against vehicles as well, hence the question.

 

Thanks for the response anyway :)

[Hesh Kadesh]

RAW, it's stupid is as stupid does. Ignore it. It's clearly inappropriate for the context, and Rules as Common Sense Dictates (which, incidentally, is far better than RAI, because the writers are morons on occasion, as shown).

 

There are seven steps to playing a game, in the "Preparing For Battle" section of the rulebook, although it lists eight. (Left Hand, meet Right hand. Right hand, meet left hand. I beleive you two have never met before)

 

1. The Mission

2. The Armies

3. The Battlefield

4. Deployment

5. First Turn

6. Game Length

7. Victory Conditions

8. Mission Special Rules

 

When you turn up for a game, you learn what mission you're going to be playing. This allows you to pick and choose your army. Although a slightly different set of rules, "The Scouring" means you'd get more use out of Fast Attack, so taking more Fast Attack are probably better than spamming Heavy Support, if you're tailoring to the mission. This happens way before First Turn, which is part 5. According to the "Game Turns and Player Turns", "Before the Game Begins" are resolved before the armies deploy for battle. As long as it's "before the armies deploy for battle" it doesn't matter when. It specifies Warlord Traits as being "before the game", but the Warlord rules further clarify that "immediately before you deploy the first unit in your army", so you cannot generate it when building your army, for example. So, if you deploy second, your opponent rolls his trait, deploys fully, then you roll your trait, and deploy. No word on how "deploy first unit in your army" and "before the armies deploy for battle" clash, but it's presumed that you use the bit in the entry, not that it really makes that much difference, but it can give the person deploying second the advantage.

 

For Veteran Tactics, you may select either when building your army (as there's no random element, when for honesty's sake you'd roll in front of your opponent, so we don't all suddenly roll Infiltrate for self and 3 others), or just before you deploy for battle.