Calth Anchor Theory

[Kol Saresk]

Okay, so since Know No Fear, feelings regarding Calth and the Ruinstorm have been varied. Some gnash their teeth at how it differs from the older background where Calth used to be a move of petty spite by Kor Phaeron, not to mention the Ruinstorm. Others are enthralled by the retelling, but feel the Ruinstorm idea is lacklustre. Then there's the third "archetype" which seems to enjoy all of it. We are here to discuss none of that.

 

Now, we know that the Ruinstorm was created by attacking one hundred worlds, killing the entire planetary population and then burning the planets.

 

With one exception: Calth. With Calth, the plan seemed to be attack the Ultramarines, beat them into submission and then burn the Veridian star. No extraction plan was created, or at least mentioned.

 

In fact, the Word Bearers didn't even try to leave Calth after poisoning the star until the Ultramarines began their counter attack and retook control of the orbital defense platforms.

 

Which is rather odd, don't you think? Seems like it wasn't just Lorgar's intention to sacrifice the Word Bearers, but to actually leave them stranded on Calth, to create the Underground War as everyone sought shelter from the sun's radioactive fury. And where they fought for seven years for nothing more than the right to be the last man standing.

 

So this is my theory; Calth is meant to be the Ruinstorm's anchor. Not only was Calth meant to birth the Ruinstorm, but it was also meant to anchor it to reality. The initial betrayal at Calth served to create the Ruinstorm with the other ninety nine planets giving it the power to stretch across the border of Ultramar. Then the Underground War served as a continuing sacrifice that would keep it anchored to reality.

 

I mean, think about it. Everything we've seen of the Underground War is basically the Ultramarines trying to defend the civilians while the Word Bearers are just trying to kill everything, including themselves.

 

So, what do y'all think?

[Xin Ceithan]

You make a solid point here. So Calth would not only bloody the Ultramarines and get Lorgar' s Legion Legion rid of unstable elements, it would also keep the thing burning. I like this idea.

[The_Gorgon]

Yeah I like it sort of like the wick in the ruin storm candle

[depthcharge12]

It would definitely keep a scab scratched off and open to use a crude metaphor. Sounds like the MO of Chaos worshippers too.

 

When does the ruinstorm terminate? Have we gotten anything in writing? Because that might lend more credence to your theory :)

[1000 Sons]

Not sure if it was from The Purge or what story, but there was a mention that the Word Bearers who weren't totally on board with the legion going all daemon and traitor but at the same time were loyal to the legion and Lorgar were able to fight at Calth and at least die in service to the legion and not betray their brothers and primarch..

[Kol Saresk]

Not sure if it was from The Purge or what story, but there was a mention that the Word Bearers who weren't totally on board with the legion going all daemon and traitor but at the same time were loyal to the legion and Lorgar were able to fight at Calth and at least die in service to the legion and not betray their brothers and primarch..

The Underground War and the Purge both IIRC. And it was actually any elements Lorgar deemed to be disloyal in any way, shape or form. The Underground War was actually a pretty good motivator in this theory because it was the visions of a Gal Vorbak recruit if he made it to Calth, and the recruit was only concerned with leaving while the daemon wanted to stay and fight. In the end, he was killed by other daemons, which ended the visions and his life.

 

And the thing is, even after they went Underground, the Word Bearers were capable of creating new possessed and summoning new daemons. Things that normally "winning" and "favored" Chaos forces are able to do. Which would mean the Chaos Gods were happy with the state of the Underground War.

 

Of course, the theory also works to propose something that people have been asking about the Ruinstorm. Basically, the Ruinstorm's strength would- if this theory be true- be dependent on the amount of causalties at any point. Ie, the more bloodshed, the more powerful and vice versa.

 

Since most of the Word Bearers forces were killed within the first year in the novella "Calth That Was" by Graham McNeill, the casualties would start running out pretty fast. Which inherently means the Ruinstorm itself is a time bomb. And it would explain how it goes from being impenetrable in the first year of its creation to just being a royal pain in the posterior come the events of Unremembered Empire and Deathfire. After all, with only 50,000 Word Bearers to start with, the XVII Legion's bid in the Underground War would burn out pretty fast until only the guerilla units who were more obsessed with surviving than fighting were left behind.

[Sandlemad]

This is a solid theory, supported by some of the detail in The Unburdened. The chaplain, Kurtha Sedd, is getting increasingly desperate and attempts to contact Kor Phaeron via his warp-flask. Instead he gets through to Lorgar himself, who informs him that though the fleet will not be returning for them, he has not been abandoned but chosen. He tells him that the campaign on Calth is not over and outright states that destruction, chaos and havoc are his purpose, all to 'gnaw the sinew of the materium'.

 

He carries out quite a few rituals, all set about causing pain and anguish in the same way the WB are described as doing in Betrayer to feed the warp in particular ways, even though he is nowhere near as conscious of the grand purpose of it all as Lorgar or Argel Tal. There are definite references to his own troops basically being sacrifices as much as their victims. He does succeed in summoning a swarm of daemons, if only for a short while, as well as creating impromptu possessed marines. 

 

So while it definitely looks like the WB sent to Calth were the unstable, unreliable members of the legion, they do seem to have had a purpose even after the star went nova and the Ruinstorm was born. I think fighting for tunnels on a poisoned dead world makes more ritual sense than strategic sense. This is similar to what you see in the Gaunt's Ghosts books, where chaos forces make bizarre strategic decisions and the imperial tactical officers just have to put it down to insane warp-logic.

[Marshal Loss]

I like this theory, makes sense

[Prodigal Son of Magnus]

Seems like a solid theory. The only hole is that the Word Bearers were trying to make the Veridian Star go into super nova. Which, by virtue of being a supernova, would end the conflict and kill everyone present and prevent a drawn out war.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I like the theory, alot. 

 

so of course BL is going to do something dumb that invalidates it.

 

WLK

[the emperor is scottish]

I'm not sure if this fluff is a 100% moot any more but wasn't calth the word bearers istavan cleansing? The marines that were believed to follow lodgar through blind obedience and not in the primordial truth culled and sacrificed on the anvil of war?

[helterskelter]

In that circumstance Lorgar would have happily seen kor phaeron and Erebus dead then? Both being in that neck of the woods. And then setting Khârn on Erebus too.

Good theory Kol!

[Kol Saresk]

I'm not sure if this fluff is a 100% moot any more but wasn't calth the word bearers istavan cleansing? The marines that were believed to follow lodgar through blind obedience and not in the primordial truth culled and sacrificed on the anvil of war?

No. Calth was meant to get rid of the more unruly elements that wouldn't obey Lorgar in all things. IIRC, Kurtha Sedd in Censure by Nick Kyme says that his sin was following the wrong demagogue, in reference to Kor Phaeron. In a way, you could say Lorgar sacrificed those who would choose Chaos and self-interest over loyalty to him.

 

Prodigal: I don't recall the plan being as extreme as a supernova, just a mere enlargement of the Veridian star until it reached its next phase and simply burned away the surface of Calth. I'll try looking for the quote as soon as I can. On the offchance you beat me to it, would it be too much to ask for you to provide the quote? I'll at least be the next couple of hours so help is appreciated.

[Memento Of Prospero]

This all stems from the "truths" granted to Lorgar by Fateweaver. If he went there personally to meet kill Rowboat the heresy would have failed. If he sent the decidents it would succeed. Same with the daemon possession trial.

 

In revealing the most desireable outcomes to him, chaos as it always does creates self fulfilling prophecies.

 

Thus with that knowledge, he set out to prepare for these events. And as always, the vision never turns out the way the recipient interprets it.

[Captain Idaho]

 

I'm not sure if this fluff is a 100% moot any more but wasn't calth the word bearers istavan cleansing? The marines that were believed to follow lodgar through blind obedience and not in the primordial truth culled and sacrificed on the anvil of war?

No. Calth was meant to get rid of the more unruly elements that wouldn't obey Lorgar in all things. IIRC, Kurtha Sedd in Censure by Nick Kyme says that his sin was following the wrong demagogue, in reference to Kor Phaeron. In a way, you could say Lorgar sacrificed those who would choose Chaos and self-interest over loyalty to him.

Prodigal: I don't recall the plan being as extreme as a supernova, just a mere enlargement of the Veridian star until it reached its next phase and simply burned away the surface of Calth. I'll try looking for the quote as soon as I can. On the offchance you beat me to it, would it be too much to ask for you to provide the quote? I'll at least be the next couple of hours so help is appreciated.

See I dispute that Calth was purely about creating the Ruinstorm through gross betrayal and human sacrifice whilst cleansing the Word Bearers from negative elements in the Legion.

 

1) Lorgar sent substantial fleet elements and war material in the form of titans. These things are crucial to prosecuting the wider conflict.

 

2) Space Marines are only expendable if you're a total tactical fool.

 

3) Most importantly, what source did we have that Lorgar actually saw a substantial amount of his Legion as expendable and better off dead? Argel Tal? Oh because he's not corrupt or can be wrong?

 

Let's be fair - he was defending his Legion's failure by saying "well they were supposed to die there to create a diversion". He wasn't unbiased and it was boastful to say as he by implication was more important to his Primarch than the Word Bearers at Calth.

 

4) Lastly, Lorgar berated Kor Phaeron for his failure to destroy a weakened and trapped Ultramarines Legion.

 

Summary

 

So looking at these elements we can't really conclude that the Word Bearers were at Calth as a sacrifice.

 

Rather, they adapted their plans to sacrifice after the Ultramarines completely U-turned their situation.

[the emperor is scottish]

I wouldn't say lodger betrayed Kor just that he seen him for what he was, a power hungry fool. Both Kor and Erebus were eventually just in it for themselves and the power they could horde not for what lodger believed was the rightful thing for humanity.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

I'm not sure if this fluff is a 100% moot any more but wasn't calth the word bearers istavan cleansing? The marines that were believed to follow lodgar through blind obedience and not in the primordial truth culled and sacrificed on the anvil of war?

No. Calth was meant to get rid of the more unruly elements that wouldn't obey Lorgar in all things. IIRC, Kurtha Sedd in Censure by Nick Kyme says that his sin was following the wrong demagogue, in reference to Kor Phaeron. In a way, you could say Lorgar sacrificed those who would choose Chaos and self-interest over loyalty to him.

Prodigal: I don't recall the plan being as extreme as a supernova, just a mere enlargement of the Veridian star until it reached its next phase and simply burned away the surface of Calth. I'll try looking for the quote as soon as I can. On the offchance you beat me to it, would it be too much to ask for you to provide the quote? I'll at least be the next couple of hours so help is appreciated.

See I dispute that Calth was purely about creating the Ruinstorm through gross betrayal and human sacrifice whilst cleansing the Word Bearers from negative elements in the Legion.

 

1) Lorgar sent substantial fleet elements and war material in the form of titans. These things are crucial to prosecuting the wider conflict.

 

2) Space Marines are only expendable if you're a total tactical fool.

 

3) Most importantly, what source did we have that Lorgar actually saw a substantial amount of his Legion as expendable and better off dead? Argel Tal? Oh because he's not corrupt or can be wrong?

 

Let's be fair - he was defending his Legion's failure by saying "well they were supposed to die there to create a diversion". He wasn't unbiased and it was boastful to say as he by implication was more important to his Primarch than the Word Bearers at Calth.

 

4) Lastly, Lorgar berated Kor Phaeron for his failure to destroy a weakened and trapped Ultramarines Legion.

 

Summary

 

So looking at these elements we can't really conclude that the Word Bearers were at Calth as a sacrifice.

 

Rather, they adapted their plans to sacrifice after the Ultramarines completely U-turned their situation.

 

 

Dude, you know I love 'em, but U-Turn is generous. 

[Captain Idaho]

U-turn is a tad generous I suppose... but that isn't my main point ;)

[Memento Of Prospero]

@ Captain Idaho

 

Those "wasted" ressources wrecked far more than they cost. Calth was, even if none of the Word Bearer forces returned, the single most cost effective trade of the heresy barring Isstvan. Beyond that was the (here it comes) logistical damage of destroying Calth's infrastructure.

 

Lorgar might have known the outcome as a certainty (even he distrusts the honeyed word of daemons at times) but he threw the dice and was fine with all the possible outcomes. Either he gains a minor victory, or a crushing one.

[Captain Idaho]

That's not quite correct. Both Horus and Lorgar intended for the Ultramarines to be out of the war if not eradicated completely.

 

The resources expended were fairly traded if success was inevitable or highly likely. Success can't have been inevitable since it was not, but it's possible it was highly likely. Which just leads us to conclude it was a mess up.

 

Why a mess up? Because destruction of Calth was political rather than terminal. Sure it was a powerful ship yard, but Ultramar had other shipyards and plenty of planets and resources that would enable a fight back.

 

To take Ultramarines out of the war required their destruction or near obliteration. This did not happen, ergo the action was a failure and the war material wasted if it was sacrificed for the task of taking the Ultramarines out of the war.

 

P.s. Lorgar in Betrayer was totally angry with the ships he lost at Calth, whilst Guilliman's interruption was totally worrying him at one point. He didn't have an "all as planned" attitude.

[Lord Tharand]

I believe Lorgar states in 'Betrayer' that the entire Shadow Crusade\Ruinstorm (Calth included) is simple to save Angron's life and have him ascend to daemon primarch.  I think he makes this remark at least twice in the book and that he's trading trillions of lives for one.

 

Also, by 'Betrayer' Lorgar has clearly disowned Erebus and Kor.  He casually berates Erebus when he suddenly returns to the fleet.

 

I'm inclined to believe that Lorgar was prepared to sacrifice those elements of the Legion who he couldn't completely count on to create the spark that sets off the Ruinstorm and cripples the Ultramarines so they can't react to the wholesale slaughter of the 500 Worlds.  This fits with the his own words about it being about Angron.  So basically he's killing two birds with one stone.

[Captain Idaho]

Again, "Lorgar states"...

 

If we are to take as gospel what he said, then how do we explain his anger or previous comments with Horus colluding with Lorgar to have Calth as a platform?

 

The objective was take the Ultramarines out of the war, then that didn't happen and the objective is now "turn Angron into a Daemon Prince". We don't know if the latter was always intended or just a new objective, but we know Horus and Lorgar worked on Calth together.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Again, "Lorgar states"...

 

If we are to take as gospel what he said, then how do we explain his anger or previous comments with Horus colluding with Lorgar to have Calth as a platform?

 

The objective was take the Ultramarines out of the war, then that didn't happen and the objective is now "turn Angron into a Daemon Prince". We don't know if the latter was always intended or just a new objective, but we know Horus and Lorgar worked on Calth together.

 

 

More binary argumenting. This is getting far too common on here. it's not because the ultimate goal was not reached that an action fails. You can't argue that it wasn't success base on knowledge of the overall outcome of the war. Otherwise, by that logic, Isstvan was a failure. Had the betreyal at Calth failed, the war would have ended there and then with a win for the Imperium.  The Ultramarines were taken out of the war severely long enough, to the point were Imperium Secondus was declared.  

 

"The Ultramarines recorded their casualties at the moment when Guilliman and the remains of the XIIIth Legion fleet departed Calth at 119,422 Legiones Astartes fallen in combat, with a further 28,392 rendered combat-incapable by battle injuries and trauma."  3 for 1 on legionnaries sounds like a great trade to me.

 

Did the plan work out to the letter? No it did not. Did it accomplish many of it's objectives? yes it did. 

 

Also, Angron's ascension Was something Lorgar planned since Isstvan. When he saw him at the campfire marchmellow gathering he knew he had to save him, as no one else would. It was never "changed to" after the fact. Both were interconnected.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

I'm not sure if this fluff is a 100% moot any more but wasn't calth the word bearers istavan cleansing? The marines that were believed to follow lodgar through blind obedience and not in the primordial truth culled and sacrificed on the anvil of war?

No. Calth was meant to get rid of the more unruly elements that wouldn't obey Lorgar in all things. IIRC, Kurtha Sedd in Censure by Nick Kyme says that his sin was following the wrong demagogue, in reference to Kor Phaeron. In a way, you could say Lorgar sacrificed those who would choose Chaos and self-interest over loyalty to him.

Prodigal: I don't recall the plan being as extreme as a supernova, just a mere enlargement of the Veridian star until it reached its next phase and simply burned away the surface of Calth. I'll try looking for the quote as soon as I can. On the offchance you beat me to it, would it be too much to ask for you to provide the quote? I'll at least be the next couple of hours so help is appreciated.

See I dispute that Calth was purely about creating the Ruinstorm through gross betrayal and human sacrifice whilst cleansing the Word Bearers from negative elements in the Legion.

 

1) Lorgar sent substantial fleet elements and war material in the form of titans. These things are crucial to prosecuting the wider conflict.

 

2) Space Marines are only expendable if you're a total tactical fool.

 

3) Most importantly, what source did we have that Lorgar actually saw a substantial amount of his Legion as expendable and better off dead? Argel Tal? Oh because he's not corrupt or can be wrong?

 

Let's be fair - he was defending his Legion's failure by saying "well they were supposed to die there to create a diversion". He wasn't unbiased and it was boastful to say as he by implication was more important to his Primarch than the Word Bearers at Calth.

 

4) Lastly, Lorgar berated Kor Phaeron for his failure to destroy a weakened and trapped Ultramarines Legion.

 

Summary

 

So looking at these elements we can't really conclude that the Word Bearers were at Calth as a sacrifice.

 

Rather, they adapted their plans to sacrifice after the Ultramarines completely U-turned their situation.

Actually we have Underground War where Lorgar tells Argel Tal that he wants the Gal Vorbak for the Calth campaign to only be made up of those too blinded by hate, I believe was how it put. And then in the new novel The Unburdened, Lorgar tells Kurtha Sedd that the fleet has left Calth but to go ahead and keep fighting anyways because their purpose is to just sow Chaos.

 

And if you're attacking 250,000 Ultramarines plus Imperial Army, Mechanicum Skitarii and Titan Legio support, yeah, you're going to throw in things like mortal soldiers and Titans to back up your own Astartes.

 

Calth isn't Lorgar going "Here Ultramarines, kill the chafe in my Legion and hopefully they'll do some damage before they get snuffed out." calth was a sacrifice, it was going to burn. The theory is just that Calth was meant to burn longer than the other sacrifices and so Lorgar only put his more unruly elements into the campaign so they could keep the fire burning and not be in his way.

 

The reasons Erebus and Kor Phaeron were sent as commanders is because they think they run Lorgar and the rest of the show. Look at how Erebus tried to argue with Lorgar about seeing the future too and knowing what could be done with it. Those two were sent to Calth to be put in their place, with the possible icing of being killed in the process. They're creatures of ego. And what's the best way to put arrogant individuals in their place? To break their egos. That means doing things like publicly berating Erebus in front of Angron and Khârn and pointing out that he ran away faster than his own ship, which in his arrogance is named "Destiny's Hand". I mean let's face it, if Erebus was such a valuable asset, then why did Lorgar sick Khârn on him?

 

And the other question that should be asked is why Lorgar never sent a fleet to pick up or reinforce the troops on Calth? It could be done, as shown by Censure and Garro: Legion of One. Both Garro and Thiel not only go to Calth, but leave again as well. Apparently all you do is time it to the radiation storms.

 

But he doesn't even make that move. Heck, they didn't even plan an extraction. Kor Phaeron's shooting weapons of mass destruction into a sun and what does he do? He stays, long enough for Guilliman to stay to launch a counterattack. The Word Bearers and Ultramarines are fighting in orbit and on the ground literally right up until the solar flare hits the planet. The Unburdened shows they were fighting each other just to get into the arcologies while the mortals are dropping like flies all around them from the radiation. And if Prodigal is right in that it was meant to be a supernova and just an enlargement of the sun, then it should have been even worse because apparently everyone from Erebus and Kor Phaeron down to the lowliest XVII Legionary decided that they should wait until it hits the planet to try and leave. And do nothing to pick up the super valuable troops from the ground.

 

I mean, I don't know about you, but personally, if I had been in charge of the campaign, after the initial attack, I would have been redeploying my troops on the ground to block access to the major entranceways to the arcologies while the fleet kills off any remaining ships.

 

No more boarding parties or salvage operations, just hijack the defense grid and then bombard anything that doesn't fly an allied identifier until nothing remains but its component atoms. Wouldn't really fortify my positions on the ground because I'd want them deployed right next to their carriers and gunships so when it's time to go, they can just strap in.

 

And then, when I started shooting atomic weapons into the sun, I'd start picking up my Astartes and my Titans, even if it was under fire. After all, they're supposed to be a super valuable resource. It'd be foolhardy to wait until the damage from the sun actually reaches the planet to try and save anyone.

 

But from we can see of the actual events in Know No Fear, nothing like that was done. There was no extraction plan for the ground troops or the fleet. Heck, the fleet only left before the radiation hit because they were running from Guilliman's counterattack. Otherwise they probably would have been hit by it first.

 

So personally, if you want evidence that the troops at Calth were not given the highest priority, I wouldn't submit the testimonies of Argel Tal, Kurtha Sedd and Lorgar Aurelian. I'd just give you a copy of Know No Fear and ask if at any point, an extraction plan other than "Run away!" was ever mentioned in the entirety of the novel.

[Augustus]

I dunno. Imagine the WarpStorm that would have been created with a Betrayal had Kor Pharon* and Erebus actually ensured the destruction of the 200,000 or so Ultramarines at Cath would have been larger and more powerful.

Do the Chaos "gods" want the outcome that we know as 40k? If so it Lorgar helped but having a quasi victory/defeat at Cath. If they don't desire it then he still has a Quasi-victory/loss at Cath as in the original lore the Dark Angels, Space Wolves and Ultramarines supposedly forced Horus' hand. But they also  allowed the maimed Ultramarines to keep the Shattered legions, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and the 50k+ Ultramarines not at Cath from attempting a B-Line to Terra to reinforce it. Either way mixed.

 

The Cath Anchor theory has Kol has presented makes sense. But the amount of Grim Dark in it almost makes me want to throw up my hands and give in to Chaos. So Grim Dark and so sad.