looking for a little help with legion era colors

[GhostLegion]

Ok. Im admitting to a failure here and asking for some help...

 

I have failed to find a good description of legion era dark angels armor colorings and heraldry in the horus heresy series as published so far. I seem to remember reading some description somewhere in the published books, but cant remember where it was, nor how detailed... yes yes, i know the armor is black, but i seem to remember there being a bit more described than that...

 

So thats the problem, and the request is if anyone knows which book such descriptions can be found, page would be bonus, but ill start with book before i go really deep into the rereading of every story touching the legion...

 

Im trying to keep this to published materials only though, trying to avoid painting/project logs, or other materials the comunity has started into over the years.

 

So...thanks in advance...

[ElectricPaladin]

Isn't it black armor, Dark Angels symbol in red, the sword not broken?

[shabbadoo]

You cannot know the power of the Google Side!  http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Angels

[Fezifresh]

There is a detailed description in one of the books of the triology. Master of Sanctity or Unforgiven. Cant remember exactly ...

[Lostrael]

I found a brief description to Astelans heraldry in Master of Sanctity, chapter "OLD WOUNDS"

 

"His armour was black, like the Chaplains’, the sword-and-wings insignia picked out in dark red on his left shoulder. His right carried insignia not used for ten thousand years; a heraldry comprised of personal symbols indicating his origins on Holy Terra itself, along with markings for the Chapter he led and the Order to which it had belonged."

 

Not much...

[GhostLegion]

Hmm. Thanks for the attempts so far people....sadly these are fitting into what i had found on my own...and the wiki link wasnt helpful at all really as that only hits the basics of what has been since rogue trades and only slightly modifies it with the forgeworld (ish) armor art. Sure it has some general info there too, but unsourced and so generalized as to lose feeling and meanings which can be found in sourced materials. Not what im looking for there and something id found already... (illustration of the point professors try to make for students today: "wikipedia can be a resource, but it is not a source")

 

The astelan reference point is nice, forgot about that one, thanks there. Ill have to go pull page numbers today and add it to my references...

 

But as i said, im looking more for descriptions of the armor as provided in black library published work...so as far as i remember, theres some info lurking in 'descent of angels' and 'fallen angels' somewhere (which i have copies of and am skimming back through to find these references). Im suspecting some of the short stories in the anthologies also may have something, "call of the lion" comes to mind here, but i dont have copies of all of those available...so im stuck right now diving the web for the list of published fiction from the black library covering heresy era dark angels. Thats the easy part fortunately...

 

Sure, forgeworld will get around to the dark angels eventually in their series, but who knows how long that will take...so really in just asking if people are able to find this type of info, or know where it is (books/chapters are helpful beyond the easy knowns, page numbers are great), and thanking any and all who can/have helped.

 

Maybe the saddest "known" about attempting to pull this info together is that it will most likely change with the next published story...hurray for consistency?

[Father Mehman]

"Wikipedia is quick and dirty": a quote from one of my English professors back in school. Your illustration jogged my mind.

Sadly, I can't think of anything to help you in your endeavour and I believe you have the right of it: it'll all change with the next Black Library book. The lack of consistency on their part has me reading other books now. There's your silver lining and possible new slogan, as it were. "Black Library, helping people remember how well they had it before bolter porn."

I digress. When Forge World gets around to it, which may be years in the future, you'll have your answer. In the mean time, pick up a model and paint it to the best of your knowledge. We know the common facts:

1- Their armour is black

2- They have a dark red sword and wing motif

3- Feathers are hip

Aside from those things, have at it. There is no correct way at this point and, who's kidding, their way is more correct than yours?

I look forward to seeing your painted models in a few days !

[Rob P]

Google 'Astelan collected visions' and the first and fourth image are from collected visions. Also look at the wallpaper for Fallen Angels.

 

I'm looking at an image in Collected Visions called 'Alajos Assault Squad'. I can't find it online though.

 

It has a Dark Angel assault marine with black armour with gold trim. The left should symbol is crossed red swords with points down. The marines have hoods.

 

Just to shake it up, I think I read that the most recent novella 'Wolf King' has green armoured Calibinite Dark Angels.

[Erren]

Here's the only official Forge World image we have so far:

 

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm106/Linnear1701/40K/ILegion.jpg

 

That's from the first Horus Heresy weekender. Sadly, until we get Legion Transfers, that style winged sword is going to be hard to get onto anything other than a shoulder pad (with the resin ones). Also, I haven't been able to find horizontal white arrows on any other legion's transfers either. But with Retribution coming in February-ish, I suspect we'll finally have transfers (and maybe even new brass etch) by March.

[JeffJedi]

Tales of the Heresy:

 

"Astelan was clad in his power armour, as were his three companions, Galedan, Astoric and Melian, each a captain of the companies carried aboard the battle-barge. Their armour was shadow-black, broken only by the red winged-sword insignia of the Legion upon their left shoulder pad and their company markings on the right. The dull grey of exposed piping and cables broke through from under the overlapping ceramite chestplates, coiling under the arms to the backpacks that supplied power to the suits.
Though painstakingly maintained, each showed small but tell-tale signs of wear and tear – spots of corrosion, repaired battle damage and makeshift replacement parts. Astelan had heard that newer versions of armour had been developed, with reinforced joints and fewer weak spots, but it had been more than four years since his Chapter had been in contact for a substantial resupply."

 

And later Astelan meets with Belath:

 

"The arrival stopped in front of Astelan and held a fist to his chest in salute. As Astelan nodded in greeting, he noticed something that caught his eye.
‘What’s that?’ Astelan asked, pointing to a heraldic symbol on Belath’s right shoulder plate, where normally a Space Marine’s organisational and rank markings would be painted. It was decorated with a quartered shield, white and blue, emblazoned with a sword held in the grip of a taloned foot.
‘That is the symbol of my order,’ replied Belath, somewhat taken aback. ‘The Order of the Raven’s Wing.’
Astelan turned an inquiring look to Galedan.
‘One of the knightly orders,’ the captain said. ‘A Calibanite rank badge.’
‘And that?’ said Astelan, redirecting his accusing finger to Belath’s other shoulder pad, which was painted a dark green beneath the Dark Angels symbol.
‘The glorious Lion El’Jonson has decreed that Calibanite warriors are to wear the green of our home world’s forests,’ said Belath with no small hint of defiance. ‘It is to act as a remembrance of the battles fought to tame Caliban under the leadership of the Lion.’"

[GhostLegion]

wow, thanks for that jeffjedi.  thats the type of thing i remembered having read and keep looking for.  and way to go over the top with quoting out the passages too!!  all i was really hoping to get was the publication and page number, but that quote helps a lot!

 

while the art work is always nice to see, and the collected visions...nevermind the old card games...were filled with good imagery, sometimes i find the written word to dwell into more detail than the picture captures.  and with gw fluff in particular, most of the art just captures the general trends of the armor...  detail gives character!

[HaSY]

My take is while First Legion colour is definitely black with red winged sword insignia esp for Terran veterans or non Calibanite warriors, it is still black with other shoulder pad as green for those from Caliban. Wolf King novella suggested that newly raised Astartes from Caliban by Luther would be Calibanite forest green.

In Laurel of Defiance by Guy Haley, it seems Lion was intrigued/concerned over the Ultramarines captain/future Chapter Master of Novamarines' own badge of heraldry (adopted from his homeworld of Honorum):

"Tell me, I understand it the custom in the Thirteenth to allow captains to modify their heraldry, but yours is a blod departure. Might I ask why?" asked the primarch.

Even if First Legion that have numerous markings of their own:  secret orders and mysterious hierarchies within the ranks of the Dark Angels; hierarchies of knowledge, trust and authority invisible to outsiders. It explained some of their curious insignia, which sometimes bore no relation to rank or company structure

I theorised that they still have strict marking of their own.

[GhostLegion]

HaSy, thanks for those, i hadnt gotten down to them yet, so seems it might be worth addint the stories to the list i need to take a look at. A

 

The basic colorings are comon and easy to find...the black armor with red legion badge (though sometimes thia is being depicted as grey or white now too), while the metal trimming areas havent been well defined in text, clues from Descent of Angels seem to fit with the brushed metal look of the Forgeworld art. This leaves the detailings to start working into...and this is what im diggin into on my own, while asking for the additional help here. That said, im also pretty sure some of the "secret" markings may be revealed if and when Forgeworld gets around to the Dark Angels, but im also pretty sure combining information from across the different published books will give a good concept as well. Hell, this type of work is what led me to keep my grey knights painted black...so im betting it will be interesting to see what the writings give for heresy era dark angels.

 

What im doing at the moment is compiling a list of the different stories and books referencing the dark angels (this part was pretty easy in the main), in order to pare down to page and passage references to markings, colors, and heraldry (a bit more compilcated). This call for assistance is helping me identify some of the sources i missed, as well as helping guide me back down to specific areas...while rereading some of these stories is good, it is nice to have help guiding when looking for specific areas. Im almost at the point of repurchasing into electronic formats in order to search text... may be the next step now to be honest...

[Cloud Runner]

@JeffJedi - is that taken from the digital version of the book, or the paper copy?

 

There's a few details in there which differ from my memory of the printed version, and I did note in another thread that the digital version had some alterations to the original print.

 

 

@GhostLegion - the legion's were HUGE, much larger than currently, so ultimately, anything goes.

 

personally, I prefer the white heraldry as I think it fits better with the scheme, and ties into other areas. I find it good to limit the pallet as well, as that's my preferred style. I will be going with some green inner pads for Calibanite warriors, though the terrans will be more 'codex'-esque with stricter markings etc.

 

 

The ultimate answer to your question though, is to go with whatever you feel works best, AKA the Rule of Cool - if it's cool for you, then go for it.

 

 

My copy of BaC arrived yesterday and I'm hoping to get started on it soon - have plans for 1 squad, the chappy & dread to be representative of Nemiel, Kohl and friends on Diamat from Fallen Angels, though with enough crossover to fit into the wider legion too.

 

 

Enjoy and welcome to the Legion!

[JeffJedi]

That was the digital. I will look up my print copy also.

 

Speaking of our HH ruleset to come, I can't wait to find out about those energy weapons that Robute didn't recognize.

[TheForgottenAngel]

There is another picture of a Dark Angel from the latest weekender.