VorpalPoolNoodle Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Like many I have recently received my Betrayal at Calth set and of course my first thoughts have been on using all that lovely Heresy era armor to make Fallen. However, there's something that doesn't quite jive there, for me. As I understand it, Dark Angels favored MkII and III and MkIV was a recent addition at the outset of the Heresy. Caliban probably wouldn't have received a supply of it, cut off as it was. The Lion's forces might possibly have received a supply but I don't see it being widespread. Is there any evidence of DA on Caliban getting MkIV armor? Does it matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mehman Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I would say that it doesn't matter. Anyone could argue for or against the Dark Angels having the MkIV. In the end, if you like it, do it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Bruinen Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Is there any evidence of DA on Caliban getting MkIV armor? Does it matter? Yes there is evidence! I've been re-reading Fallen Angels by Mike Lee to get pumped for Betrayal at Cal(iban), and Zahariel makes a report on the number of new Mk IV suits that have been manufactured in the last year. When I get home tonight I'll find the page reference. So, while Mks II and III are very much the classic image for DA, they certainly had and used IV as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VorpalPoolNoodle Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 Thanks for that! It's been a long time since I've read Fallen Angels, so I didn't remember that. My conscience is clear! Now to figure out how to separate "Ultramarines" from "Word Bearers". I'm thinking the Ultras will have the classic red helmet stripe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 This is the quote in question: “I am also pleased to report that the Techmarines have certified two thousand suits of power armour, a hundred new suits of Tactical Dreadnought armour and two hundred of the new Thyrsis-pattern jump packs for shipment to the fleet from the forges.” Excerpt From: Mike Lee. “Fallen Angels.” iBooks. I also did a search in my eBook for "power armour", and there is no reference to Mk IV, I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJedi Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 When they arrived at Caliban the 1st Legion had mk4 in Descent of Angels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 When they arrived at Caliban the 1st Legion had mk4 in Descent of Angels. Reference? Edit: I'm not challenging, I really want to know so that when other people say that they didn't have Mk4, I can give them the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VorpalPoolNoodle Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 When they arrived at Caliban the 1st Legion had mk4 in Descent of Angels. Reference? Edit: I'm not challenging, I really want to know so that when other people say that they didn't have Mk4, I can give them the info. Dug out my copy of Descent and there is mention of Mk IV armor being used by multiple marines during the Saroshi incident on page 391 (paperback). This would also mean troops would have been equipped with it before being sent back to Caliban. That's good enough for me to have both loyalists and Fallen in MK IV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Dug out my copy of Descent and there is mention of Mk IV armor being used by multiple marines during the Saroshi incident on page 391 (paperback). This would also mean troops would have been equipped with it before being sent back to Caliban. That's good enough for me to have both loyalists and Fallen in MK IV. :tu: Awesome, Imhotep! :thanks: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJedi Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I couldn't find any reference in my digital versions of the book but I thought I saw it in the actual print copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Bruinen Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 This is the quote in question: “I am also pleased to report that the Techmarines have certified two thousand suits of power armour, a hundred new suits of Tactical Dreadnought armour and two hundred of the new Thyrsis-pattern jump packs for shipment to the fleet from the forges.” Excerpt From: Mike Lee. “Fallen Angels.” iBooks. I also did a search in my eBook for "power armour", and there is no reference to Mk IV, I'm afraid. As Jeff says, there must be something weird going on between the print and digital versions, because here's my print version of that same quote: The 1st Legion have always been one for secrets and multiple versions of the truth haha. But hey, if it means I can use the new plastic minis, I'll take whatever justification I can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaSY Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 First Legion is so well equipped that no one knows that they have several star forts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Truckin Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 This is the quote in question: “I am also pleased to report that the Techmarines have certified two thousand suits of power armour, a hundred new suits of Tactical Dreadnought armour and two hundred of the new Thyrsis-pattern jump packs for shipment to the fleet from the forges.” Excerpt From: Mike Lee. “Fallen Angels.” iBooks. I also did a search in my eBook for "power armour", and there is no reference to Mk IV, I'm afraid. As Jeff says, there must be something weird going on between the print and digital versions, because here's my print version of that same quote: The 1st Legion have always been one for secrets and multiple versions of the truth haha. But hey, if it means I can use the new plastic minis, I'll take whatever justification I can! For what it's worth - it's in my ePub version. Chapter Two - third paragraph. I am also pleased to report that the Magos Logistum has certified two thousand suits of new Mark IV armour, a hundred new suits of Tactical Dreadnought armour ... ( would this be the current mk of TDA? ) I also think a we should be careful when referencing info from Fallen Angels as canon or we regress back to the whole Astellan Chaos worms on Terra confusion again. :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Hey, if it turns out that DA didn't have MKIV armor at that time, you can always say they're alpha legion masquerading as DA...which would actually be a really good explanation for the fallen, now that I think about it...it's a really big Alpha Legion deception operation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJedi Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I heard they are changing the date that the Lion was found so that he has more than 50 years before the Heresy to be active. Maybe the armor was changed also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Source for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absolon Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 I think with the fact that we now know the Dark Angels were predeploying fleets in secret all over, there could be a wide variation of armor and iconography being used Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 JeffJedi is correct. Laurie Goulding is the source, from The First Expedition forums. In essence, the writing and editing teams tightened down the timeline somewhat. As a result, a few of the ePubs were edited in subsequent "editions". Some of the changes involved dates; Descent of Angels, for instance, originally referenced the Lion being found a mere 50 years prior to the Heresy, but that has since been removed and now the time of his discovery is a century or so prior to Horus Rising. The removal of a reference to Mk IV power armour on Caliban was probably a byproduct of those efforts. Honestly, it makes sense. That having been said, I would never tell someone that they can't use that mark for Fallen. There is almost always room for a good idea, and even if the Fallen didn't have access to Mk IV power armour prior to the destruction of Caliban one can imagine viable reasons for some of them getting it later. Remember, for instance, that Talon of Horus makes reference to Fallen warships visiting a "neutral ground" world in the Eye of Terror that is under the protection of Iron Warriors and is visited by various factions of the Traitor Legions. Perhaps such suits of armour were gained via trade, or in exchange for mercenary work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJedi Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 It makes sense that newer suits would be made on Caliban with all the changes to the planet. Maybe the newer recruits got the new armor while the older, far flung marines kept their battle tested suits. The revised timeline makes more sense for three reasons. 1. The Lion would have to had been around before Lorgar went bad. Otherwise there is almost no time to meet and interact with the other Primarchs. 2. Why would Robute be impressed to meet a Primarch that came after him? He clearly saw him as an older brother to look up to. 3. How could the Lion have the 2nd most victories after Horus in 1/4 of the time? That makes the others look really bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VorpalPoolNoodle Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share Posted November 17, 2015 I really don't see how the Lion being around longer would have any impact on whether they got MK IV armor as long as the return to Caliban and betrayal happen at the same points in history. As the first legion, they would have been allocated at least some, even if Horus was trying to keep the majority for his traitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaSY Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 What about Mark VI that had been depicted in the old editions? I suppose beak helmet is quite iconic with the First Legion too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mard Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 I'll continue to use the MK VI for my Heresy Dark Angels. And I'll cite Rogue Trader marines as my source :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 I just wanted to point out that the quote says that they are "transferring to" the fleets. This means they're manufacturing the armour on Caliban. Even if mkIV has been removed due to some dates changing, it would stand to reason that once the dates catchup, the ability to manufacture would still be there. Cheers, Jono. As an aside, I've two sets of BaC, and I've purchased six of the plastic DA upgrade frames, and they go together so nicely, the little variance in shoulder pads doesn't detract at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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