Mechanicum book and tempest

[Deekthegreat]

So i just played against the mechanicum book and at 1k points t8 is bs i had zero to deal with all the mcs he had. So does tempest have all the rules i need to look at or does somebody have a scanned copy of the book so i may look over it and understand what im looking at

[Deekthegreat]

I was playing as iron hands and i gotta say after that game it left a super sour taste in my mouth for 30k i mean i only jad the betrayal at calth set and even then i only had 6 units and he pretty much tabled me in 5 turns with his thanatar castillax and vorax models

[Slips]

Your problem is threefold.

 

1) 1k non-ZM games in 30k is Absurdly low and Legion Armies essentially have no punch at that points level.

 

2) BaC, as we've been saying, does not make the best, most capable army, it fills in the base minimum requirements.

 

3) An Opponent who brings Thanatars at 1k in an Intro/starter game is kind of a douche.

[Slips]

Double Post, but hey.

 

Theres also a reason why some of us who are used to the system kept making lists with Sniper Tac Vets vs Tav Blobs. Why? Sniper always wounds on a 4+ regardless of toughness. Meaning you could drown an MC in Bolter Fire and still reliably hurt the thing.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that Mechanicum are even more well equipped to dealing with MEQ than even Legions.

[Terminus]

I was playing as iron hands and i gotta say after that game it left a super sour taste in my mouth for 30k i mean i only jad the betrayal at calth set and even then i only had 6 units and he pretty much tabled me in 5 turns with his thanatar castillax and vorax models

LOL.

 

Sorry about that, but I predicted a lot of this would go on, especially with the folks buying 4 boxes and building 3000+ point lists out of them.

[Noserenda]

The Calth Boxed Set works fine for the basis of an army but id definitely second Sniper Vets, they put down Mechanicum like noones business.

Id also Second a Thanatar in 1000pts against a newbie as being pretty douchey but then you are playing Iron Hands :P   

[Deekthegreat]

Yea but i had literally 1 squad of termies 1 tac vet squad 1 contemptor dread 1 attack bike and my praetor havent had the time to build bigger than a 5 man squad and having almost no idea what any if the mechanicum stuff does doesn't really help. So now i ask with some knowledge that he would bring 2 thanatars in bigger games and some more stuff like thallax and me lacking the ability to get lots of tanks and stuff how would you deal with mechanicum at that level at this time hes the only 30k player that would actually play 30k with me so i dont wanna just say yea im never playing you again. And yea i plan on expanding maybe you guys can point me in the right direction for some stuff

[Frater Cornelius]

Mechanicum is the only 30k army that is capable of putting up efficient armies at 1k, due to models like Thanatars and Castellax.

Legion lists get into their own at 2k and higher. The best Legion lists clock in at 2.5k - 3k. Funnily enough, 3k Legion is roughly equivalent to 2k 40k due to way higher cost if the units. I mean, a sodding TDA transport clocks in at 340pts alone.

 

You also played against a far superior composition. Calth content against Thanatar, Castellax and Vorax? I could've told you the outcome before the game.

 

So no, no quitting just yet. It is like saying you do not like riding a bike after you fell down on a rocky road and using an incorrect technique. No, you get up and try again ;)

[Trydragon]

Ouch, 1k with Thanatar that's not nice,

 

Good Anti Thanatar Units Quad Mortars Firing Shatter rounds, Drop pod with Sniper Vets, Drop Pod with melta Support Squad, Thunder Hammer's.

 

also rember its Plasma Mortar has a minimum Range of 12' so get in close it is a Str8 MC but its not Great in combat if you can Hurt it (PowerFists/Thunder hammers) it will go down.

 

Edit: Its Also Vulnerable to Blinding attacks, that might help.

 

Edit 2: Also If you go with IH there rule drops it Mortar's Str to 7 so FnP on your Troops might help you out.

[Frater Cornelius]

The minimum range only means that it needs to fire indirectly. It is still a barrage weapon. And the Quad Mortar is only AP3 against Thanatar 2+. The best counter would be indeed Sniper Vets, Seeker with Combi-Plasmas or Support Squad with Plasmas. Extremely expensive, but you need to kill it after all :P

[Marshal Rohr]

The Thanatar model is so beautiful it should be played at any points level.

[Slips]

The Thanatar model is so beautiful it should be played at any points level.

....if your opponents are ready for it.

 

Its not a Noob Friendly unit, thats for sure.

 

Something about a 12-48" S8 Ap2 Barrage, 5" Large Blast that forces successful cover to be re-rolled while also being able to shoot its S6 Ap3 Twin-Linked Mauler Bolt Cannon on an S8 T8 4W 2+/5++ Model that can be taken 1-5 per slot.

 

Just doesnt scream "Intro Game Friendly" to me, which is the situation in this topic.

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, I know a guy who plays intro games with his Scatterbike + Warp Spider army... Thanatar is somewhere along those lines, except that it literally makes Scatterbikes weep. I wish it had 5 wounds though :/

 

What we are saying is that losing to a Thanatar in your first game is not uncommon and neither is it shameful.

[Deekthegreat]

I know it was just really lame that he made it fire the blast twice and just wasted everything and kinda just chuckled about it and didnt even seem shameful about using it. Left me pretty annoyed and he keeps trying to convince me his skitarii can be used with his mechanicum stuff. I know the box set doesnt come with much but it can at keast with 2 boxes make at least 2 5 man support and heavy support squads. Would rapier batteries be better to use for killing off those big guys

[Slips]

Few Things.

 

Thanatars Weaknesses include but are not limited to:

• Tarpits. 2 Attacks base means he wont be mulching through much any time soon.
• Slow. Its an MC. Can only move 6". Sure, his guns shoots far but hes not the most mobile.
• Is an MC. Poisoned Weapons, Sniper USR, Fleshbane, etc. make its T8 Rather worthless. Still Ap2 on those weapons is hard to come by but...Phosphex...

Read this: http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Mechanicum_(30k) and get to know them.

 

And if he continues to argue being able to bring Skitarii to 30k without asking for your approval SINCE ITS NOT LEGAL PER RAW, then stop playing with him.

[Frater Cornelius]

I hope he got that rule right. You may fire twice, but you are unable to shoot next shooting phase, so it sort of balances out.

 

Also, Thanatar laughs at poison. 2+ save and you need to re-roll successful wounds.

[Terminus]

The Calth Boxed Set works fine for the basis of an army but id definitely second Sniper Vets, they put down Mechanicum like noones business.

Id also Second a Thanatar in 1000pts against a newbie as being pretty douchey but then you are playing Iron Hands

Yes, a set works fine as the core choices of the army, before you start investing the rest of the $1000 you need in FW resin to build an effective Legion force. This does not apply to the OP, but I'm just remembering all those people in the Calth lead-up thread building 5000 (yes 5000) point armies using nothing but the Calth box, and then getting indignant when told that their 150+ nearly identical marines will be tabled in a few turns against pretty much any normal HH list at that level.

[Marshal Rohr]

The box has only been out a handful of days and already it's being turned into the next big power gaming scene.

[Deekthegreat]

He got the rules right as far as I could tell but i dont really get to look at rules for the army if i ask he just kinda generalized responses. This was more frustration fueled than me being upset cause my little box set lost i knew going in there wasnt a chance in hell id win i only wanted to have fun and enjoy the non bs of 40k siliness for one game but sadly i didnt enjoy the crap he pulled in 1k

[Slips]

Well, at that point, its less the system and more the player.

 

If you ask for a rules reference you're entirely within your rights to ask to see the page in question after all, even we (I) forget rules.

 

And While I would personally build a 5 Thanatar 2.5k Mechanicum list (look in the Army list section), I at least have the decency to not use it against an unfamiliar player unless they asked for it.

[Deekthegreat]

So now trying to figure out what would most likely help le play on a more interesting playing field. He has no vehicles only mcs pretty much so looking for some stuff to make the game fun for me. Tanks i am really interested in the medusa and some of the land raider variants. Probably gonna work up to 2500 points and ill let him being his silly skitarii and cult mechanicus crap if i can at least stay in a fair playing ground against it. Sicarans land raiders the typhon rapier batteries stuff like that would it be a good starting point? Im picking up a second box set to fkesh out the troops and stuff so will have that covered as for what legion not sure atm so tips and any good reviews on these tanks vs mechanicum would be nice also derailing my own thread to ask another question

 

Do the legions have access to flyers like the avenger and tge thunderbolt? It says we can use any flyers from the forgeworld books right so just making an assumption on that so any ideas on those would be nice to thanks in advance

[1ncarnadine]

Allying Mechanicum and Skitarii/Cult Mechanicus isn't really... remotely legal. Shut that crap down, it's the equivalent of you allying in Grey Knights and Centurions.

 

And yes, Legions can use the Avenger & Thunderbolt. Under the Lords of War section of any given red book, check the entry for Orbital Strike Wings ;)

[Slips]

Well, if you really want to crush him, you're probably going to end up with a Very Generic Legion list that maximizes the use of the absolute strongest units we have access to.

 

Such as:

 

Please Note I'll be tailoring this a bit to tackle MC-based Mechanicum, mostly.

 

HQ:

-Depends on Legion. Strong Choices include Vigilators to Scout (especially with RG and AL who can Infiltrate+Scout) or Praevian to bring your own Castellax...which gain Legiones Astartes (ex: RG Praevian and Castellax gain Fleet and Infiltrate).

*Special: Siege Breaker consul to unlock Phosphex Shells on Medusae (see below)

 

Troops:

2x 10man Tac Squad in Rhinos.

 

Elites:

Thudd Guns for days.

 

Fast Attack:

MSU Plasma/Melta Bikers.

Melta Bomb Jetbikes to Tie up and deal with units like Thanatars or Tanks.

 

Heavy Support:

EITHER:

• 1 Leviathan Dread with Claw and Drill in a kharybdis, Preferably. DDP if you dont want to buy a Kharybdis :p (Grav Bombard isn't as useful and the Storm Cannon vs T7 3+ and higher is meh despite the RoF)
• 3x Leviathan Dreads with gear and stuff. Get them into CC ASAP. Arm them with Claws Preferentially.

Deredeo Dreadnought w/ Plasma due to no real need for Tank Busting, in this case and to deal with any 2+ Save MCs.

3x Medusa Battery. If Siege Breaker is taken, give 1 Medusae the Phosphex Shells. An Ap2 Poisoned 3+ 5" Blast that causes movable (by you) Dangerous Terrain will help significantly in slowing the beasties down.

 

LoW:

Typhon. If the points are high enough, you can take up to 3 Per slot, iirc.

 

 

+++

 

Alternatively you could go Aircav and essentially render the VAST majority of his shooting worthless. But, this is just a generic, skeleton of an idea that others are free to expand/correct me upon.

[Deekthegreat]

Ok i was just clarifying that it is doable. And the centurions and grey knights is a thing here in the us. And i obviously wont win the argument so thats ok ill just play cheese with cheese and bring a bunch of stuff that can handle his army of mcs its kike a tyranid army bring big guns that can waist him and not feel bad about it

[Slips]

You can always up the ante and give him a taste of his own medicine by potentially running a 6-Knight List at 2.5k+ or something.

 

But thats not a great way of interacting with another person, especially when done out of Spite and not for Giggles. You want to be the better man, after all, not stoop to his level.

 

'Cuz you could always argue that you can also Ally 40k Admech in the same manner to your legion and use Kataphrons (or whatever they're called) with Heavy Grav Cannons and use 40k Grav Bull:cuss to instagib his Thanatar.