When will the Prospero book be released?

[calvin the wraithlord]

I read somewhere it was going to be before Tempest but they had to delay it because they were really struggling to balance the 1k sons 

[Ishagu]

Honestly, Thousand Sons could just be an army where all infantry units having the brotherhood of psykers special rule, with limited powers to chose from and a limitation on wargear to compensate, and they'd maybe lose Fury of the Legion. It wouldn't be hard to write rules for them at all.

 

As for the Wolves, they could be similar to the World Eaters. Maybe not quite as singularly focused on close combat, but with some interesting tactical rules thrown in to illustrate that they aren't the dumb savages they might initially appear to be.

[Kol Saresk]

I got laugh here. At the idea of incorporating formations and other 40K only rules, everybody freaks out and loses their minds. But when it comes to getting Thousand Sons on the table, everyone is suddenly "Just clone the Grey Knights and their CSM counterparts!"

 

Oh Irony, how you make me laugh tears.

[Slips]

Thing about the Thousand Sons: They're getting their own Psychic Discipline / Tree. Balancing that while making it distinct enough from the basic powers while trying to avoid BS Shenanigans such as Invisibility isn't the easiest thing to playtest.

 

At the same time making sure that they aren't rendered into utter worthless crap when a Culexus/SoS so much as looks in their general direction also adds another layer of complexity.

 

Couple that with Legion Specific Units, RoW, Wargear, Magnus. Then, playtesting (which we know they do - this is separate to the Proofreading Gripes some have), iterating, <insert general Game Design Development Cycle Here> and it starts to add up.

 

Then, you mix in other projects they have going on such as: Space Wolves, Custodes, SoS, other IA Stuff their doing and/or whatever GW Prime requires them to divert resources to and it starts to spiral.

 

Theres also writing the fluff and making it mesh well with what BL is doing so that means submitting the tomes to the BL Editorial Team so they can make sure they aren't going off the rockers.

 

Add on that you also need Strong, Consistent Art that properly represents the Legion and its Flavour.

 

And anything that happens in the interim such as "small" inspiration projects (such as the Out-of-book released models).

 

This ain't an excuse as to why its taking long and why they're pushing stuff back but, it adds up and we still have no real context as to why things are taking so long.

[Ishagu]

I appreciate Forgeworld using the old "We're trying to balance the army" excuse, but let's get real - nothing they have released is superbly balanced.

It's certainly a lot more so than 40k, and abusive lists are not as common, but when you compare 5 Recon Marines to 2 Rapier Quad Mortars you throw the balance argument out of the window.

 

I'm not suggesting they clone Grey Knights, but ironically a Legion of 1000 strong, psychic warriors is generally the most comparable to the GK.

[Slips]

I appreciate Forgeworld using the old "We're trying to balance the army" excuse, but let's get real - nothing they have released is superbly balanced.

It's certainly a lot more so than 40k, and abusive lists are not as common, but when you compare 5 Recon Marines to 2 Rapier Quad Mortars you throw the balance argument out of the window.

I'm not suggesting they clone Grey Knights, but ironically a Legion of 1000 strong, psychic warriors is generally the most comparable to the GK.

Its a good thing, then, that the smallest of Legions was the Raven Guard at 83k After the Gate 42 Incident

[Ishagu]

Wasn't there only one thousand by the time they re-united with Magnus? Hence the name...

I'm sure they were always extremely limited in numbers.

[Slips]

Wasn't there only one thousand by the time they re-united with Magnus?

Yes. But then they had the time to grow their numbers once the Flesh Change was "Cured".

 

The Burning of Prospero didnt happen instantaneously afterwards.

[Marshal Rohr]

Only a portion of the Legion was psychic. A larger chunk than most, but not everyone. 

[Ishagu]

That makes them easier to write in that case!

 

Thousand Sons Legion rules:

 

-Librarian Consuls can be taken as a compulsory HQ

-Unique unit: Psychic Praetor; must be Mastery Level 2 (+50 points), can roll on Biomancy, Pyromancy, Divination, Telekinesis, Telepathy and Malefic Demonology (if MD is chosen perils occur on roll of any doubles) Psychic Praetor cannot take Power Fist or Chain fist, but other weapons including a Paragon blade are counted as force weapons.

 

-Sgts in Legion Infantry squads (Tactical Squads, Veteran Tactical Squads, Terminator Squads, and so on) are Mastery Level 1 psykers.

-They may roll a single power from Divination, Telekinesis or Telepathy.

-They Peril on rolls of any doubles, model is immediately replaced with a Spawn that no longer counts as being part of the unit and the power does not manifest. If you don't have a Spawn to represent the change the model is instead removed from play.

 

 

 

Not so terrible, eh? **edited errors**

[1000 Sons]

Not bad Ishagu, but that is pretty much what Thousand Sons are in 40k, unit of normal marines with a sorcerer leading them.  Making them perils on any double is a big penalty and might lead to just spamming the cheapest units as much as possible to max out mastery dice for your actual sorcerers.

 

The big question for me is how do you make the regular units from the crusade army list red book work with the Thousand Sons.  The Sons shouldn't be an artillery/shooting heavy army with Prescience and re-rolls, but should be using there psyker powers as the artillery, or negating cover saves since they can sense where everyone is, or foretell where they are going to be. 

 

If they are getting their new psychic tree, it should be the backbone of the army.  Adding the sorcerer to lead each unit is good, but maybe have them only able to use powers from this new discipline tree of spells.

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

At the same time making sure that they aren't rendered into utter worthless crap when a Culexus/SoS so much as looks in their general direction also adds another layer of complexity.

That doesn't seem to be that complex. Pretty much everything struggles when it rumbles with a Culexus, so the Sons are no different there (assuming FW just transplant the 40k Assassin rules into 30k). As for the SoS, just give them the 'Psychic Abomination' rule (or variant thereof) from the Culexus. That way they still turn off the Son's (or anyone else's) powers, but aren't silly. What makes the Culexus brutal is the combination of great stat line, ignoring armour saves and the Etherium nerfing the opponents Ws and BS. Without these, a SoS unit leaves the Sons 'merely' being Space Marines when in range, they still shoot/stab fine and can try to neutralise the psychic nullifying by killing the Sisters dead (as they do in ATS).

[Remus Ventanus.]

Patience is a virtue...

[Doctor Perils]

 

Prospero - Burns Night:-)

Defininetly got a poetic ring to it...

[Marshal Rohr]

Patience is a virtue...

Dude you don't know the burn. You joined up right as your legion came out.

 

Some people like depthcharge and his angels, one eye and his white scars, blindhamster and his blood angels have been waiting years. The wolves and sons can be as mad as everybody else waiting. At least the Prospero legions get their special units and Primarchs.

[Corswain]

The book isn't just Wolves and Thousand Sons though. Maybe the delay is in balancing Custodes or Sisters of Silence or just Magnus.

The internet hate will be savage if they don't get this one right. They can take all the time they want, in my opinion.

If it's not ready, it's not ready.

 

Note, I'm not having a crack at Wolves or Sons players. Waiting for my Dark Angels, just like everyone else. :)

[Remus Ventanus.]

 

Patience is a virtue...

Dude you don't know the burn. You joined up right as your legion came out.

Some people like depthcharge and his angels, one eye and his white scars, blindhamster and his blood angels have been waiting years. The wolves and sons can be as mad as everybody else waiting. At least the Prospero legions get their special units and Primarchs.

Well i was waiting from the beginning for tempest, and when it was released I joined, so I had a few years wait. Everything is going to come, we have had threads like these before and they don't go anywherey

[Excessus]

The Sons shouldn't be an artillery/shooting heavy army

Why not? All legions were equipped to handle all situations, artillery included. Far from all astartes had any psychic power to speak of, and regular hardware would have been much needed, and their useage in battle augmented by psychic powers from the more powerful individuals.

 

Heck, I don't think Ignis in the Ahriman trilogy ever uses his powerful mind except to precisely calculate a space bombardment. There is more to psychic powers than to throw balls of fire around...

[b1soul]

Im response to dantay...how would WS be released before SW?

[b1soul]

Only a portion of the Legion was psychic. A larger chunk than most, but not everyone.

 

A larger chunk than any other legion. That's their whole schtick

[Leman Russ SW]

I think a good way to try and balance the Sons would be to allow any unit to buy the brotherhood of Psykers rules for a set amount 25-50 points but the unit only ever generates the primaris power from a discipline.  You could even limit how many units can choose from each discipline to prevent spamming.  The Wolves I imagine will get counter attack like their 40K counter parts and taking Russ will give the army preferred enemy space marines. 

[Excessus]

 

Only a portion of the Legion was psychic. A larger chunk than most, but not everyone.

A larger chunk than any other legion. That's their whole schtick

 

Yeah, but you don't have to have specific psychic powers to represent that imho.

 

I'm converting a Thousand Sons Vigilator. His bolter does not have special sights or anything to represent the sniper status but he has a Tutelary helping him aim (like Phosis T'kar in A Thousand Sons), and he will not have represented any camouflage or a cloak, because I'll try to represent him having a "mini-shrouded" psychic power giving him stealth. That's one way I imagine the psychic might of the Tousand Sons, not everything has to be represented by a roll on the psychic power lists...

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

 

The Sons shouldn't be an artillery/shooting heavy army

Why not? All legions were equipped to handle all situations, artillery included. Far from all astartes had any psychic power to speak of, and regular hardware would have been much needed, and their useage in battle augmented by psychic powers from the more powerful individuals.

 

Heck, I don't think Ignis in the Ahriman trilogy ever uses his powerful mind except to precisely calculate a space bombardment. There is more to psychic powers than to throw balls of fire around...

 

This, atm the thing that cripples the Thousand sons in 40k the most is the fact they literally have nothing but bolters and the aspirign sorcerer's powers (which are the worst in the game) they don't even have grendades, bolt pistols and CCW like every single other power armoured unit it the chaos codex.

A level one psyker is not that powerful as to mean the rest of the army needs to be made toothless.

[Pariah Mk.231]

Im response to dantay...how would WS be released before SW?

 

If they do the Siege of Terra before they do Prospero, then Scars would feature there along with Blood Angels.

[Balthamal]

I promised myself I wouldn't bite but I shall. And to be clear from the off this isn't aimed at any one person in particular. I've seen dozens of people post for/against the whole waiting deal. It just seems that every other week there's a thread like this popping up and the same sentiments are espoused therein.

 

To put it very bluntly, the SW and TS have differences significant enough to merit further development of their rules. Add that to starting from scratch with the Custodes and Sisters not to mention the customary writing of the campaign missions, blurbs on knight houses/titan legions, the artwork etc and it's a lot of effort. Granted, by the time this drops at the very earliest (I still stand by Oct/Nov 2016 being the most optimistic of estimates, likely 2017 sometime) there'll have been 3 volumes released which could potentially have been time spent working on them. But as Alan Bligh, Andy Hoare and several others have stated when asked "it's either wait two and a half years for one book or we'll look at one every six to eight months." Obviously for those forced to wait it sucks. Of course it does. I play Night Lords (and spent the year between Betrayal and Massacre praying they made it into the latter) and Alpha Legion and even I'm dying to see what the book has. And it sucks because there's never really been anything concrete in terms of when it can be expected either. I feel your pain, I really do. 

 

But why do we have to listen to the same complaints over and over again? You hate waiting. We get it. You're dying to know what goodies you'll be having. We get it. You don't agree that the Legion you want needs so much time and effort put in. We get it. We get it all. But for the love of god stop telling us about it every time a constructive thread comes along somewhere. You're not the only one waiting. What about people who want to do one of the other three Legions? OK they get their rules. And no models. For what is going to be a long time. There's half the stuff missing from Extermination. There's stuff from Tempest and there'll be stuff from Retaliation. Their wait is going to be even more ball breaking than yours.

 

The Wolves take time. There are no Blood Claws in 30k. There are no Grey Hunters in 30k. There are no Long Fangs in 30k. They have to go about relating the army list not only to the generic Legion list but also how it's going to evolve into the 40k incarnation. And it needs to be consistent with the stuff we've already got out there. Plenty of people want to see the whole executioner thing shot down despite word coming down from on high that it's simply a front put on. Plenty of people also want to see the whole executioner thing built up despite word coming down from on high that it's simply a front that's put on. And in response to the so-called "wolf hate" the vast majority of players don't hate the wolves. What's hated is the consistent attempt to build them up as terminator style ninja executioners worth 5 warriors from every other Legion each which comes from the fanboys, not GW or BL or FW, but fanboys who want to see their precious little babies made snowflakes just because reasons. Now let's get this straight, the BnC is a million miles away from the worst of the forums where this sentiment exists, there's much worse out there online and I've met several people who literally made my toes curl spitting that garbage. And from speaking to several SW fans on here, it isn't an opinion which is universal among the masses. Most people are intelligent enough to perceive what Dan's intentions were in Prospero Burns and the remainder shouldn't really ignore that the "alternative" perception has been declared officially wrong.

 

Apologies in advance if anyone feels singled out or that the comments were aimed at them specifically, that wasn't my intention. If anything I love the fact that people get passionate about the hobby to such a degree. I just wish sometimes it wasn't channeled in such a negative way