When will the Prospero book be released?

[b1soul]

But...but...SW are like marines plus werewolf powers, they're Astartes +1, that's why their job is to execute other legions. A non-SW marine is like a human. A SW marine is like a super-savage (but highly controlled) anti-human werewolf.

 

SW fans with this opinion are getting rarer...but when they do crop up, they deserve derision.

[Balthamal]

But...but...SW are like marines plus werewolf powers, they're Astartes +1, that's why their job is to execute other legions. A non-SW marine is like a human. A SW marine is like a super-savage (but highly controlled) anti-human werewolf.

 

SW fans with this opinion are getting rarer...but when they do crop up, they deserve derision.

 

Fortunately. It does still rear it's ugly head now and again. I've followed Dantay's example and made liberal use of the ignore button on the occasions I've seen it spouted again

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

But...but...SW are like marines plus werewolf powers, they're Astartes +1, that's why their job is to execute other legions. A non-SW marine is like a human. A SW marine is like a super-savage (but highly controlled) anti-human werewolf.

 

SW fans with this opinion are getting rarer...but when they do crop up, they deserve derision.

Fortunately. It does still rear it's ugly head now and again. I've followed Dantay's example and made liberal use of the ignore button on the occasions I've seen it spouted again

And following up to this, intentionally attack these individuals does nothing more than put you on their level. And on a watchlist for the mods and admins.

 

So if you think just ignoring those people isn't a good enough step and you just feel the need to be like them, remember that you'll probably be caught up in the melta.

[b1soul]

 

 

But...but...SW are like marines plus werewolf powers, they're Astartes +1, that's why their job is to execute other legions. A non-SW marine is like a human. A SW marine is like a super-savage (but highly controlled) anti-human werewolf.

SW fans with this opinion are getting rarer...but when they do crop up, they deserve derision.

Fortunately. It does still rear it's ugly head now and again. I've followed Dantay's example and made liberal use of the ignore button on the occasions I've seen it spouted again

And following up to this, intentionally attack these individuals does nothing more than put you on their level. And on a watchlist for the mods and admins.

So if you think just ignoring those people isn't a good enough step and you just feel the need to be like them, remember that you'll probably be caught up in the melta.

Refuting an irrational view doesn't make you irrational (i.e. "put you on their level"). As long as there's no name-calling, why would mods have to get involved?

[Volth]

Why can't everyone just enjoy the game and their legion?

 

-_-

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

 

But...but...SW are like marines plus werewolf powers, they're Astartes +1, that's why their job is to execute other legions. A non-SW marine is like a human. A SW marine is like a super-savage (but highly controlled) anti-human werewolf.

SW fans with this opinion are getting rarer...but when they do crop up, they deserve derision.

Fortunately. It does still rear it's ugly head now and again. I've followed Dantay's example and made liberal use of the ignore button on the occasions I've seen it spouted again

And following up to this, intentionally attack these individuals does nothing more than put you on their level. And on a watchlist for the mods and admins.

So if you think just ignoring those people isn't a good enough step and you just feel the need to be like them, remember that you'll probably be caught up in the melta.

Refuting an irrational view doesn't make you irrational (i.e. "put you on their level"). As long as there's no name-calling, why would mods have to get involved?

Intentionally attacking someone is different from refuting an irrational view.

 

EDIT: I'm not saying you have or that you are, just a word of caution to all in general to be careful in how they oost so it isn't perceived as an attack. And to not directly do it in case someone ever feels the urge to do so.

[Dantay VI]

For most of us, we can enjoy the game and our legion. I actually include myself in that group.

 

I have no rules for the Wolves, but I can surmise that we will get access to most units. What I have been doing is using the time to stockpile on the expensive stuff, such as the tanks etc and putting my painting skills into them.

 

I think the thing for Wolves will be "whatever it takes to get the job done!" so no retreating and access to things like destroyers. Maybe a lack of some heavy support options

 

The reason is two-fold.

 

1. I can nail down a paint scheme I like and have it ready to roll when the meat of my army becomes available to me.

2. Vehices generally rely on their paintwork as an identifier. I am not going to smear my Fire Raptor in pelts and chains etc, because in flight they would get ripped off. Same for tanks. Pelt s will burn chains snag stuff etc. Therefore I can hopefully give them a good Viking theme through the paint & knotwork. It also shows the Wolves to be more than cave painting barbarians :D

 

The few infantry I have done, have little adornment too, so I do get annoyed when folks start giving it wolfy mcwolf-wolf comments. Especially when it comes in their first post, makes them seem irrelevant and contributes nothing to the discussion. I do not desire Space Wolves to be uber super snowflakes, but the do have their place, just as every other legion has their place.

 

I get brassed off at FW sometimes, more because the book keeps getting knocked back. If they had said right from the bat. Its is hard working stuff out, its going to be 3 or 4 books down the line before you see anything. Rather than all sorts of other reasons (I will stop calling it excuses, because some reasons are valid).

I also do appreciate that others have also got a longer wait and to ease this they are getting the very basics in book 6. 

Am I justified to be annoyed if Wolves & T-Sons do not show up in book 7 because of issues, are excluded from book 6 because of previous planning and we are left with no upgrades, and no rules or specific RoW?

 

Who knows?

 

I'll just keep plugging away at my Astartes parking lot until the Wolves come home :)

 

[b1soul]

The SW, TSons, Custodes are gonna get star treatment.

 

It'll be worth the wait. I do think Conquest and Retaliation are filler.

[Frater Cornelius]

I think it is safe to say that they should release some time before Sisters get plastics :D

[Hergrmir]

While on this topic, any suggestion for some idea of counts-as for the 1k Sons? I'm of the opinion that while they certainly had more psykers and fostered them better (and perhaps there was some latent psychic heritage in all Prosperines), that the overwhelming majority of line infantry wouldn't have that much psychic ability.

 

I'm rather tempted by Ultramarines under their RoW or Alpha Legion rules, to represent the adaptability that their psychic heritage brings to the field. Neither furious charge nor stubborn from the generics really seems to reflect much about them. Or Pride RoW with a lot of Tactical Veterans, which could represent both their relatively low numbers but also the support they bring to the table. For modelling stuff, lots of little familiars flittling about, and robes, books, oustretched hands, etc.

[Balthamal]

While on this topic, any suggestion for some idea of counts-as for the 1k Sons? I'm of the opinion that while they certainly had more psykers and fostered them better (and perhaps there was some latent psychic heritage in all Prosperines), that the overwhelming majority of line infantry wouldn't have that much psychic ability.

 

I'm rather tempted by Ultramarines under their RoW or Alpha Legion rules, to represent the adaptability that their psychic heritage brings to the field. Neither furious charge nor stubborn from the generics really seems to reflect much about them. Or Pride RoW with a lot of Tactical Veterans, which could represent both their relatively low numbers but also the support they bring to the table. For modelling stuff, lots of little familiars flittling about, and robes, books, oustretched hands, etc.

 

Holding rank within the Legion was contingent upon significant psychic ability (A Thousand Sons) but the vast majority of the Legion wouldn't have any powers of note. It's likely at best they were latents who could perceive psychic communication or understand that powers were being employed. One thing that will need clarification from FW is just to what degree Magnus' gene seed contributed to the psychic ability of his Legion. 

 

Personally I favour it merely bringing an individuals innate ability to full expression whilst not "making them psychic" as it were. Prospero was already noted for the fact that an unusually high percentage of it's population possessed psychic potential which would account for the higher numbers within the Legion after recruitment focused on Prospero and the surrounding systems rather than Terra.

 

Be interesting to see how it pans out.

 

 

As for using counts as, at the minute you're probably looking at Alphas purely for the fluidity they're capable of but judging by the comments from the design team (and the fact that they're having to write a set of Legion specific psychic powers) should at least give you the idea they're going to be different to the other 16 Legions, significantly different.

[b1soul]

Is there any evidence that the "vast majority" of TSons have no psychic powers "of note"?

 

I thought most TSons were moderate psykers...and a significant minority were elite by other-legion standards. That's the impression I got from ATS...not that TSons are barely more psychic than any other legion.

[Hergrmir]

As I understood it (and I haven't re-read ATS since it came out), casting the Rubric turned those who didn't have notable psychic strength into suits, and those formed the vast majority of the Legion.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Hergrmir's right. The Rubric is the proof the the majority of the XV were not psykers of any noteworthy power. That's been an element of the Son's fluff as long as I can recall.

[Excessus]

It's been the fluff of the Thousand Sons from at least 2nd ed. The rubric marines were those with none or little psychic powers.

 

It's easy to think that they all are psykers, but you have to realize that all the Thousand Sons that are in the stories are officers of some sort. They would have powers of course, but that's just somewhere around a tenth of the legion...and still quite a lot more than any other legion!

[Ishagu]

So, if only a few are psykers than the rules I suggested would indeed be a fit, and they'd also be utilising all of the various units and vehicles like the other Legions.

 

...unless Forgeworld are looking to retcon the Lore like they have with other Legions?

[Dantay VI]

Like Black Library retconned the Space Wolves from having the 3rd highest tally of compliant worlds under their belt, to only having made relatively few worlds compliant.

 

Before wolf mcwolf jumps out, I am not complaining about that retcon, if it stays as canon, as it would reflect the low number of Wolves or that they were indeed the military police of the Imperium and had their time split between compliance work and quelling riots etc on newly compliant planets and the like (dirty work).

[Leif Bearclaw]

I dunno. I don't think that really works. Firstly, I'd be kinda surprised if every Sergeant and higher rank in the Legion was a capable battle psyker. Then there's the poor balancing of the current psychic disciplines. Have you ever seen anyone take pyromancy? You'd either just get all units spamming a handful of good powers (especially if they break it down by 'Order' and the Corvidae get Divination), or be paying through the nose for overly expensive heavy flamers. So I can certainly see why they might want to make a custom discipline for the Sons.

 

However, thus far they've designed, 'balanced' and released both rules and models for entire non-Marine armies (Solar Auxilla, Mechanicum and the Militia from Tempest (albeit they don't have models)) while delaying Prospero. This leads me to believe, as dantay said on page 1, that they're just doing a whole bunch of other things instead of working on Inferno. It's not that Inferno is 'too hard to get right', but rather they decided to design stuff like the Solar Auxilla instead. Now for people who love the Auxilla, that's great (and I'm not saying the FW did a bad job with them), but it's frustrating to hear on one hand 'the stuff you want is really hard to do because it's different, so it's taking a while' then the company comes out with 'here's a completely different army with new fluff and a bunch of model support'. To the fan getting sick of waiting for Inferno, this looks like some heavy cognitive dissonance. Now, I might be entirely wrong about this, and the more charitable interpretations of other users may be closer to the mark. But I hope I've conveyed some of why I'm getting increasingly frustrated with FW over these delays.

[Excessus]

Leif, the Thousand Sons will be getting their own psychic discipline. I bet they can balance a psychic discipline if they have full control over it.

 

Weren't the rules pretty much done for Prospero? As I remember they just wanted to release it with the models in one go...and the models are lagging behind...

[b1soul]

Hergrmir's right. The Rubric is the proof the the majority of the XV were not psykers of any noteworthy power. That's been an element of the Son's fluff as long as I can recall.

Have they ever given us an idea of what "not noteworthy" means? That could be a relative term...not noteworthy compared to whom? Fellowship Captains?

 

Wasn't the flesh change triggered by using one's psychic powers? Didn't that afflict the majority of the legion?

[Excessus]

 

Hergrmir's right. The Rubric is the proof the the majority of the XV were not psykers of any noteworthy power. That's been an element of the Son's fluff as long as I can recall.

Have they ever given us an idea of what "not noteworthy" means? That could be a relative term...not noteworthy compared to whom? Fellowship Captains?

 

Wasn't the flesh change triggered by using one's psychic powers? Didn't that afflict the majority of the legion?

 

The Flesh Change was a flaw in the geneseed, not specifically connected to using psychic powers.

[Volth]

While on this topic, any suggestion for some idea of counts-as for the 1k Sons? I'm of the opinion that while they certainly had more psykers and fostered them better (and perhaps there was some latent psychic heritage in all Prosperines), that the overwhelming majority of line infantry wouldn't have that much psychic ability.

 

I'm rather tempted by Ultramarines under their RoW or Alpha Legion rules, to represent the adaptability that their psychic heritage brings to the field. Neither furious charge nor stubborn from the generics really seems to reflect much about them. Or Pride RoW with a lot of Tactical Veterans, which could represent both their relatively low numbers but also the support they bring to the table. For modelling stuff, lots of little familiars flittling about, and robes, books, oustretched hands, etc.

 

As long as Thousand Sons aren't released take 2-3 Librarian Consuls and go with legion generic. You'll reflect their legion like no one else. If you want Ultramarine legion specifics, why not play Ultramarines. If you want TS-painted Ultramarines, go for it. After all it's your army, your money so your game. But don't you think a little obligation gets the game a good share of its taste?

[Hesh Kadesh]

Take Word Bearers with an allied TS detachment. Praetor can take Burning Lore, 2 Librarians, and a Count As Magnus with a Lorgar Transfigured. Allied TSons detachment gives you the ability to take a Consul with the Amulet Relic from Conquest/Book IV to represent the psychic powers - one in Terminator armour is relentless so Salvo works well, pretty much killing 4 Marines a turn, while the Word Bearers relic stripping Invulnerables is just lovely, and can.also represent a Psychic Power, as can the rest of the relics like the goop gun, Void Shield or Teleporting relics.

 

Edit; Volth, I think you are missing the point.

[Zeratil]

It's been the fluff of the Thousand Sons from at least 2nd ed. The rubric marines were those with none or little psychic powers.

 

It's easy to think that they all are psykers, but you have to realize that all the Thousand Sons that are in the stories are officers of some sort. They would have powers of course, but that's just somewhere around a tenth of the legion...and still quite a lot more than any other legion!

 

  It's only been one line or so though, copy pasted since second edition. ATS implies a much higher number of Sons were psykers, albeit not in the same class as the officers or even the Sekhmet. I think for now ATS is a better guide for the Sons abilities than decades old codex fluff, especially since it comes after Merrett re-wrote so much syuff for the Visions of Heresy books.

 

  ATS also implies that the flesh change is a combined result of the geneseed and psychic powers, as the first occurence wasn't until after warriors started manifesting their abilities.

 

  Hopefully the Prospero book will fill all this out a lot more and provide a more definitive account than we've seen in the past.

[Hesh Kadesh]

It is also McNeils work. Feel free to throw it under a bus.