Toughest unit for 145 points?

[Berzul]

Hey guys! 

 

I'm thinking of putting together a list that includes a set up of 2 Deathwing Terminator Squads deep striking by a Drop Pod with a Locator Beacon. I've been thinking of what the Drop Pod could carry, that can hold out long enough for the Terminators to arrive (in a general, I mean. Not against any specific enemy or army, but as an all purpose idea).

 

The list itself leaves me 145 points for this unit, after you account for the Drop Pod and the Locator Beacon. So far, I've tinkered with 3 posibilities:

 

1) A Venerable Dreadnought with an Assault Cannon and a Heavy Flamer. It's AV 12 means it will take weapons of S6 or higher to even have a chance to damage it. The downside is that it has only 3 hull points and can be blown up entirely with one good shot. Out in the open, it's going to atract a LOT of fire, so it can be taken down fast, against the right weapon.

 

2) A 10-man Tactical or Assault Squad of Marines, with a Flamer or Melta Bombs. 10 wounds at Sv 3+. A lot more weapons can harm this unit, but it can take more hits before going down, and even fewer weapons can one-shot it to death; specially if you spread them out. Can even combat squad, to force the enmy to split fire between both squads.

 

3) A Command Squad with an Apothecary and 4 Storm Shields. This strikes me as a it excesive, in the sense that this squad could not really do much OTHER than survive for a bit. Can't shoot much, can't fight well, but it can hold out with a 3++ save and 5+ FnP, with 5 wounds in total before getting wiped out. (I'm guessing you could take out 2 shields, and use just 2 for tanking, by placing them up front, and using those 2 points to add some combi weapons for some firepower. Maybe 2 plasmas, for 4 S7AP2 shots on the drop).

 

What would you guys think would be the better option? Why? Anyone thinks there are any other ideas that could work better?

[GreyCrow]

I would say go for the Tactical Squad for 2 reasons :

1) 10 wounds is good and it will attract attention.

2) You can put a Teleport Homer on the Sergeant so that you'd get 2 options for popping in the Terminators, securing the role for the squad.

 

But unless you have points for gearing them up (because taking Tactical Squads without good weapons to do the job on the drop is useless), I'd elect the Venerable Dreadnought. At least he's going to take fire instead of the Drop Pod.

If Dark Angels have access to Ironclads then I'd go for it however.

 

Finally, aren't pods a Fast Attack choice now ? (unless you're using a detachment ?) If yes, I would just buy 2 Pods to put the Terminators in, I'm not sure they have restrictions on ferrying bulky units.

[march10k]

Go with option 2.1:  9 man tacticool squad.  Gives you 19 (so really, 15) points for an upgrade (or two).  That lets the squad be a lot more useful after turn one.  Maybe give them a plasma cannon and park them in ruins on an objective in your deployment zone?  Give them a meltabomb AND a melta gun and go hunting after turn one?  One meltabomb or flamer seems kinda meh.

[Berzul]

Go with option 2.1:  9 man tacticool squad.  Gives you 19 (so really, 15) points for an upgrade (or two).  That lets the squad be a lot more useful after turn one.  Maybe give them a plasma cannon and park them in ruins on an objective in your deployment zone?  Give them a meltabomb AND a melta gun and go hunting after turn one?  One meltabomb or flamer seems kinda meh.

 

I could add another tactical squad for the purposes of capping objectives or guarding my deployment zone, but it wont do for this unit.

 

The whole idea is to drop it on the enemy lines, and field a squad or unit that can take a lot of punishment for a turn or two, while the Terminators arrive around it. If I drop it on my deployment zone, then the drop pod and locator beacon are wasted, since dropping the terminators so far back would be pointless, and I would have been better of walking them across the board from turn one.

 

I would say go for the Tactical Squad for 2 reasons :

1) 10 wounds is good and it will attract attention.

2) You can put a Teleport Homer on the Sergeant so that you'd get 2 options for popping in the Terminators, securing the role for the squad.

 

But unless you have points for gearing them up (because taking Tactical Squads without good weapons to do the job on the drop is useless), I'd elect the Venerable Dreadnought. At least he's going to take fire instead of the Drop Pod.

If Dark Angels have access to Ironclads then I'd go for it however.

 

Finally, aren't pods a Fast Attack choice now ? (unless you're using a detachment ?) If yes, I would just buy 2 Pods to put the Terminators in, I'm not sure they have restrictions on ferrying bulky units.

 

The Dark Angels can't take teleport homers on their sergeants. At least, not that I can tell from the Codex. Also, we do not have access to ironclad dreadnoughts either, and terminators cannot ride drop pods, so taking them as fast attack choices to drop them wouldn't work either.

[johnyocum]

Remember that a vehicle not listed in the dedicated transport options for a squad can still have them start inside it at the start, as long as capacity permits AND you have the force org slots to put the vehicle in.

 

You just can't have a dedicated transport starting out with any unit other than the one it was purchased for within it before Turn One.

[Berzul]

But, can terminators, with the very bulky rule, enter a drop pod? I always stood by the thought that they could only ride a landrider.

[march10k]

 

Go with option 2.1:  9 man tacticool squad.  Gives you 19 (so really, 15) points for an upgrade (or two).  That lets the squad be a lot more useful after turn one.  Maybe give them a plasma cannon and park them in ruins on an objective in your deployment zone?  Give them a meltabomb AND a melta gun and go hunting after turn one?  One meltabomb or flamer seems kinda meh.

 

I could add another tactical squad for the purposes of capping objectives or guarding my deployment zone, but it wont do for this unit.

 

The whole idea is to drop it on the enemy lines, and field a squad or unit that can take a lot of punishment for a turn or two, while the Terminators arrive around it. If I drop it on my deployment zone, then the drop pod and locator beacon are wasted, since dropping the terminators so far back would be pointless, and I would have been better of walking them across the board from turn one.

 

I would say go for the Tactical Squad for 2 reasons :

1) 10 wounds is good and it will attract attention.

2) You can put a Teleport Homer on the Sergeant so that you'd get 2 options for popping in the Terminators, securing the role for the squad.

 

But unless you have points for gearing them up (because taking Tactical Squads without good weapons to do the job on the drop is useless), I'd elect the Venerable Dreadnought. At least he's going to take fire instead of the Drop Pod.

If Dark Angels have access to Ironclads then I'd go for it however.

 

Finally, aren't pods a Fast Attack choice now ? (unless you're using a detachment ?) If yes, I would just buy 2 Pods to put the Terminators in, I'm not sure they have restrictions on ferrying bulky units.

 

The Dark Angels can't take teleport homers on their sergeants. At least, not that I can tell from the Codex. Also, we do not have access to ironclad dreadnoughts either, and terminators cannot ride drop pods, so taking them as fast attack choices to drop them wouldn't work either.

 

Ah, I missed the reference to them riding in the drop pod...definitely recommend the 9 men with meltabomb and melta gun, then!

[Roland]

But, can terminators, with the very bulky rule, enter a drop pod? I always stood by the thought that they could only ride a landrider.

Termies are bulky. Centurions are very bulky and can use them, so there is no reason Terminators can't. I seem to remember a bat rep featuring Stuart Spengler's DW that all used DP.

[mika_angelus]

Terminators can mount any vehicle except rhino.

Rhino has a special rule that prohibits embarking models with the bulky or very bulky special rule.

[Berzul]

Oh. Interesting. Thanks for pointing that out!

[DA_WarM]

Terminators can mount any vehicle except rhino.

Rhino has a special rule that prohibits embarking models with the bulky or very bulky special rule.

I thought they could only purchase a land raider as a dedicated transport...

[mika_angelus]

As a dedicated transport. Yes.

But they can embark on any transport, like a non dedicated drop pod, storm raven, chimera, valkirie and so on.

Only rhino is a nono because of it's special rule.

[Berzul]

Well, I could take one of the two Terminator Squads, add the Drop Pod as a Fast Attack Choice, and drop them first, with the second squad as backup. That would free me 145 points. Maybe for a predator or a vindicator for heavy support. But that might leave my 2 deathwing squads without anything to back them up on the frontlines... 

[Berzul]

I've been running numbers, and it seems that, overall the best choice, without knowing what you are up against, would be to take 10 Marines. By scraping some points elsewhere in the list I have in mind, I managed to give them a Plasmagun, a Combi Plasma, Melta Bombs and make the Sgt. a Veteran (for the extra leadership). 

[GreyCrow]

I'd make sure both your Terminators squads drop together. 5 Terminators don't last long enough and you'll be throwing them piecemeal. Get two pods and put both squads in ;)

 

Moreover, if you go with Terminators you don't need tactical Marines as much. Both compete for the same role and job, and you would probably have anti-infantry overkill. (Unless you were gearing your Terminators for full assault, but in that case going for Knights might be a better option).

[Berzul]

I'd make sure both your Terminators squads drop together. 5 Terminators don't last long enough and you'll be throwing them piecemeal. Get two pods and put both squads in

Moreover, if you go with Terminators you don't need tactical Marines as much. Both compete for the same role and job, and you would probably have anti-infantry overkill. (Unless you were gearing your Terminators for full assault, but in that case going for Knights might be a better option).

I've considered some of this points. The thing is, I still need 2 troop choices for the CAD. I already had accounted for the 2 troop choices with two 5 man squads, so I could drop one when making this one though. That would free me up some points, in order to take 2 more drop pods. With that I'd have 3, then I could drop both terminator squads turn 1!

Mmmm... I like where this idea is going.

The HQ choice would have to show up on its own, though. I'd be having 10 spaces in the pods, filled by 5 bulky termies each. Still, the idea does have its merit. Could turn into an interesting Drop Pod Army.

I could use 2 Fast Attack Slots for 2 Drop Pods, give them to the 2 Terminator Squads, and use the third for a Dreadnought with a Multi Melta (with the 6 Storm Bolters and 2 Missile Launchers dropping on turn one, I'm guessing that an Assault Cannon would be redundant). Turn one I can drop the Dread and one Squad of Termies, then drop the other as support. I could make that first Squad one of Knights, and field them as full assault even, with the other one dropping with guns for support.

I'm going back to the drawing board with this list....