Iron Hands Questions (formerly Iron Hands and Mk IV)

[Father Mehman]

Yeah, forget ablative plating! It's not better to have more armour !

EDIT- Forgot to add smiley face

[Calas Typhon]

 

 

 

Nobody has stated that they use it exclusively and no one is telling him to not use MKIV or just use MKIII either.

 

Just stating that MKIII would be the logical choice fluff wise for most of the standard line in the Legion due to the great ability to modify the armour and the protection it gives, which is perfect for their way of warfare.

I understand no one was telling him what he could or couldn't do. I was simply telling him to tell those who tried to pack sand.

 

Still, you and the community are making inferences from the fluff that aren't explicitly stated. Also don't confuse rules with fluff points. Inviolate Armor is a rule, not fluff. It adds to the tabletop and the little plastic men we play with, but has nothing to do with and is not supported by the established 30k lore.

 

As far as referencing the Immortals models, again it was a design choice. FW chose the 'Iron' armor because its iconic look fits.

 

 

I am simply looking at it from a fluff point, that is all.

 

MKIII was famous for its heavy layered plating which was ideal for close quarter firefights and sieges, It has been stated in the fluff that the Death Guard wore a large amount of MKIII plating as it suited the way of warfare for them, which was not all too different to the Iron Hands way of war, taking away of course the majority of nuclear death worlds and chemical deathzones and adding a few more tanks.

 

Ultimately it is up to the person what mark he wants in his army. I was simply stating that MKIII would have been the obvious and logical choice of pattern for the Iron Hands from a fluff point.

 

 

Mark III is iconic for the VII, X, and XIV, yes. So is Mark II and Mark IV, from a fluff standpoint. Mark 3 has ablative plating, not better plating. Mark IV was supposedly composed of a stronger ceramite, which would've made it more ideal for those 3 legions anyway. 

 

 

I never said it was better, only that MKIII suited their way of warfare and so was to be the most logical choice of war gear. It might have been composed of a stronger ceramite, but the multiple layers of plating would contribute highly to the strength of the overall piece in the front of the set anyway.

 

I was simply stating that MKIII would have been the obvious and logical choice of pattern for the Iron Hands from a fluff point.

 

What I mean by that was it was the most Logical choice of pattern for that way of warfare rather than just in general, Did not re read before posting.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

 

 

Nobody has stated that they use it exclusively and no one is telling him to not use MKIV or just use MKIII either.

 

Just stating that MKIII would be the logical choice fluff wise for most of the standard line in the Legion due to the great ability to modify the armour and the protection it gives, which is perfect for their way of warfare.

I understand no one was telling him what he could or couldn't do. I was simply telling him to tell those who tried to pack sand.

 

Still, you and the community are making inferences from the fluff that aren't explicitly stated. Also don't confuse rules with fluff points. Inviolate Armor is a rule, not fluff. It adds to the tabletop and the little plastic men we play with, but has nothing to do with and is not supported by the established 30k lore.

 

As far as referencing the Immortals models, again it was a design choice. FW chose the 'Iron' armor because its iconic look fits.

 

 

I am simply looking at it from a fluff point, that is all.

 

MKIII was famous for its heavy layered plating which was ideal for close quarter firefights and sieges, It has been stated in the fluff that the Death Guard wore a large amount of MKIII plating as it suited the way of warfare for them, which was not all too different to the Iron Hands way of war, taking away of course the majority of nuclear death worlds and chemical deathzones and adding a few more tanks.

 

Ultimately it is up to the person what mark he wants in his army. I was simply stating that MKIII would have been the obvious and logical choice of pattern for the Iron Hands from a fluff point.

 

 

Mark III is iconic for the VII, X, and XIV, yes. So is Mark II and Mark IV, from a fluff standpoint. Mark 3 has ablative plating, not better plating. Mark IV was supposedly composed of a stronger ceramite, which would've made it more ideal for those 3 legions anyway. 

 

 

I never said it was better, only that MKIII suited their way of warfare and so was to be the most logical choice of war gear. It might have been composed of a stronger ceramite, but the multiple layers of plating would contribute highly to the strength of the overall piece in the front of the set anyway.

 

I was simply stating that MKIII would have been the obvious and logical choice of pattern for the Iron Hands from a fluff point.

 

What I mean by that was it was the most Logical choice of pattern for that way of warfare rather than just in general, Did not re read before posting.

 

 

No, I understood, and my point stands. You mean its the best for their temperament, since their 'way of warfare' is irrelevant to the type of armor being used. You are making the classical mistake many people make by assuming if something is represented one way in the art, models, or fluff, it ALWAYS must be like that. 

[Calas Typhon]

 

 

 

 

 

Nobody has stated that they use it exclusively and no one is telling him to not use MKIV or just use MKIII either.

 

Just stating that MKIII would be the logical choice fluff wise for most of the standard line in the Legion due to the great ability to modify the armour and the protection it gives, which is perfect for their way of warfare.

I understand no one was telling him what he could or couldn't do. I was simply telling him to tell those who tried to pack sand.

 

Still, you and the community are making inferences from the fluff that aren't explicitly stated. Also don't confuse rules with fluff points. Inviolate Armor is a rule, not fluff. It adds to the tabletop and the little plastic men we play with, but has nothing to do with and is not supported by the established 30k lore.

 

As far as referencing the Immortals models, again it was a design choice. FW chose the 'Iron' armor because its iconic look fits.

 

 

I am simply looking at it from a fluff point, that is all.

 

MKIII was famous for its heavy layered plating which was ideal for close quarter firefights and sieges, It has been stated in the fluff that the Death Guard wore a large amount of MKIII plating as it suited the way of warfare for them, which was not all too different to the Iron Hands way of war, taking away of course the majority of nuclear death worlds and chemical deathzones and adding a few more tanks.

 

Ultimately it is up to the person what mark he wants in his army. I was simply stating that MKIII would have been the obvious and logical choice of pattern for the Iron Hands from a fluff point.

 

 

Mark III is iconic for the VII, X, and XIV, yes. So is Mark II and Mark IV, from a fluff standpoint. Mark 3 has ablative plating, not better plating. Mark IV was supposedly composed of a stronger ceramite, which would've made it more ideal for those 3 legions anyway. 

 

 

I never said it was better, only that MKIII suited their way of warfare and so was to be the most logical choice of war gear. It might have been composed of a stronger ceramite, but the multiple layers of plating would contribute highly to the strength of the overall piece in the front of the set anyway.

 

I was simply stating that MKIII would have been the obvious and logical choice of pattern for the Iron Hands from a fluff point.

 

What I mean by that was it was the most Logical choice of pattern for that way of warfare rather than just in general, Did not re read before posting.

 

 

No, I understood, and my point stands. You mean its the best for their temperament, since their 'way of warfare' is irrelevant to the type of armor being used. You are making the classical mistake many people make by assuming if something is represented one way in the art, models, or fluff, it ALWAYS must be like that. 

 

 

Well the 'way of warfare' still stands. One would take the best tool for the job, armour is no different. 

 

The Legions stated focus on full frontal attacks a majority of the time, taking punishment and then dishing out int he case of the XIV and X Legions. You would want the best protection for that. It does not mean you can't take another piece of gear! only that you would want the best protection possible for that type of warfare.

 

I never said it must be like that, I am stating that in the fluff, the legions would more than likely use MKIII because of the protection it offers and the availability to customize in the case of the XIV which could be linked to the X Legion with the use of bionics.

 

Now I would love to keep talking about this, but I really do not wish to continue, so this will be my last post.

[ElectricPaladin]

I've got to say that I love that when 30k players have stupid arguments online, at least it's an entertaining stupid argument driven by a love of the background, not some inane rules argument or complaints about how terrible GW is or netlists. Way to go, guys!

 

Anyway, to weigh in, I think the background is pretty clear that everyone used all marks of armor, but due to preference or circumstance, some Legions are associated with certain marks (ie. Raven Guard and beakies, Iron Hands and Death Guard with the heavier MkIII, and so on). That doesn't mean that every single Death Guard Legionnaire wore MkIII, any more than it means that every Raven Guard Legionnaire wore beaky armor, or every Son of Horus wore MkIV.

[Daemon2027]

The Xth had possibly the best stocked armoury of any Legion with the possible exception on the Iron Warriors. The could probably outfit their entire legion in Mark I if they really wanted to.

I see armour as the choice of a particular marine. Look at today's professional soldiers, many will buy and maintain their own kit to suit their own preference. Transfer that to 30k, on Iron Hand likes the feel of the reinforced mark III the next likes the advanced mark IV, another used to hunt on Medusa and he's got his hands on the experimental mark VI that suits his style. There's no wrong answer, there's just the removing of weak flesh for cold iron and crushing purple marines between your blacked iron boots.

[Big Bad Squig]

Thanks for the input guys.  If this wasn't clear, I'm just using Mk IV as a starter, and will expand to have Mk II and III at later points.

 

 

@BigBadSquig: Just recalled that one of Autek Morr's honour guard, the Blood Wrought, is shown in Massacre as wearing MkIV. If it's good enough for an Iron Father's personal bodyguard, it's surely good enough for any legionary.

 

 

Do we know any more about this guy (don't have my book to hand)?  Wargear, fluff, etc.?  I'm just thinking what to do with the Word Bearers chappy.

[Arkangilos]

Strictly speaking, in the currant fluff, The only loyalist legion, with significant amounts of mark 4 armour was the imperial fists. due to there raid on Mars. Horus deliberately had mkiv plates priority shipped to the traitor legions to give them an advantage.

Iron hands have there own pattern of armour called inviolate armour which is a type of mkiii armour. Saying that the fluff is pretty fluid, as it has been redone over and over again. Anything from mkii to mkvi is alright

I could have sworn the raid on Mars gave them the Mk VI, not the mk IV.

[Memento Of Prospero]

 

Strictly speaking, in the currant fluff, The only loyalist legion, with significant amounts of mark 4 armour was the imperial fists. due to there raid on Mars. Horus deliberately had mkiv plates priority shipped to the traitor legions to give them an advantage.

Iron hands have there own pattern of armour called inviolate armour which is a type of mkiii armour. Saying that the fluff is pretty fluid, as it has been redone over and over again. Anything from mkii to mkvi is alright

I could have sworn the raid on Mars gave them the Mk VI, not the mk IV.

 

 

it did give MKVI

 

@Big Bad Squig Autek Mor is a space marine who's geneseed is not as it should be. He boasts toughness 5 and strength 5, which is unheard of for a marine in the heresy. Cataphractii armour, paragon blade and is an Iron father, with all the benefits and the servo arm.

 

A few of us poster our Autek Mor convesrsions in the Iron Hands tactica thread.

[Calas Typhon]

Dis regard, see post above

[DuskRaider]

Thanks for the input guys.  If this wasn't clear, I'm just using Mk IV as a starter, and will expand to have Mk II and III at later points.

 

I don't see an issue with that at all. Having 60-some Troops all wearing the exact same armour is extremely boring and becomes quite tedious to paint after a while. Variety is the spice of life. Also, the Death Guard Upgrade Kit is extremely vague with it's intended Armour Mk. I'd say it's the most divergent of any Legion Upgrade Kit released thus far. I assume it's Mk. III, but it's so different from the source material that it honestly works with any Armour Mk., and looks decent on any to boot.

[Big Bad Squig]

 

 

Strictly speaking, in the currant fluff, The only loyalist legion, with significant amounts of mark 4 armour was the imperial fists. due to there raid on Mars. Horus deliberately had mkiv plates priority shipped to the traitor legions to give them an advantage.

Iron hands have there own pattern of armour called inviolate armour which is a type of mkiii armour. Saying that the fluff is pretty fluid, as it has been redone over and over again. Anything from mkii to mkvi is alright

I could have sworn the raid on Mars gave them the Mk VI, not the mk IV.

 

 

it did give MKVI

 

@Big Bad Squig Autek Mor is a space marine who's geneseed is not as it should be. He boasts toughness 5 and strength 5, which is unheard of for a marine in the heresy. Cataphractii armour, paragon blade and is an Iron father, with all the benefits and the servo arm.

 

A few of us poster our Autek Mor convesrsions in the Iron Hands tactica thread.

 

 

Sorry for being unclear, I meant the Blood Wrought, rather than Mor himself (who was why I chose Clan Morragul).

[Sandlemad]

 

Sorry for being unclear, I meant the Blood Wrought, rather than Mor himself (who was why I chose Clan Morragul).

 

 

His name is Veur and his title is 'Ironwrought' (sergeant equivalent or perhaps just an honour?). 1st squad, devastator heavy support company, order Tredecimii (marked with a XIII on his kneepad and  right cauldron), Clan Morragul. Possibly 'devastator' was an IH-specific term for heavy support which found its way into the codex later on? He served aboard the Red Talon at Isstvan V. They repelled boarders but suffered heavy losses. The gear he's shown with consists of a tigris pattern bolter and a voss-incarnadine pattern heavy bolter. His 'distinctive crimson heraldry' is noted as that of the Blood Wrought.

 

It says a lot about Autek Morr that his personal guard extended beyond a handful of shield bearers to include heavy weapons units. If we are to continue in the vein discussed earlier, perhaps Veur was equipped with MkIV plate as being a devastator was not a front-line role which would require heavy ablative armour? Not that that is the only possible reason.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Better lenses and auto senses makes a good case for MKIV armour on shooty units from the sidelines/backlines

[RandomMarine]

IMO the 5s in the stat line are coz he's secretly at thunder warrior who has blagged geneseed somehow

[Big Bad Squig]

Thank you all for your feedback; I have since started up my IH army with no qualms about the use of BaC maximus armour (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316330-come-out-to-play-iron-handsiron-warriors-co-operative-log/).  However, some new questions have pushed themselves to the front of my mind.  The only significant one is around cyber familiars.  Should they have the grimdark elements of 40k servitors, or be modelled completely differently?  Do you guys have any examples for inspiration?

 

Thanks for the help.

[ElectricPaladin]

I made a cute little cyber-lizard out of a Lizardmen skink.

 

The way I see it, you can go one of three ways:

 

1. Cyber-familiars of the Great Crusade era are more like little robots than lobotomized humans, so you should find/make a sort of a mini robot thing.
2. Cyber-familiars of the Great Crusade era are still made using vat-grown genetically lobotomized humans, so they still look like servitors, it's only a background thing that distinguishes them from 40k's grimdark servitors and cyber-skulls, cherubs, etc.
3. The Great Crusade era wasn't exactly all fun and games, either. Iron Hands are dicks. Your cyber-familiar is still made from the spare parts of children/criminals/some mortal who looked at your sideways.

 

Also, keep in mind that it's not actually necessary to model your cyber-familiars. Fun, sure, but if it's stressing you out you can omit it.

[Memento Of Prospero]

I love servo skulls they are so iconic in 40k.

 

You can also use necron scarabs, there super techy looking and as cute as a dozen puppies.