Moritat and Destroyers

[Captain Idaho]

Humour a 30K newbie ;)

 

I'm thinking these guys just look cool in the rules and table top, though their effectiveness is suspicious for their points value in my eyes.

 

How do people feel about these choices? Any tips?

 

Do you reckon they can fit into my chosen Legion of Ultramarines?

 

I'm thinking of an army that has a couple blob squads, Veteran Tactical squad in Rhino, plasma Tactical support squad and then my Land Raider and elite killy Suzerains, then a unit of Cataphracti on foot just to distract those poor old blob squads.

 

Added to take the usual Sicarian and Deredeo Dreadnoughts etc.

[Charlo]

They're expensive. Very much so. I think though you go big or go home, I hear good things about a full ten man in a Rhino shooting thier missiles out the top. It's a shame you can't get two missiles and a Moritat in the Rhino.

 

Another option is you go all out: 5 dudes, missile launcher, Phosphex bombs, land raider proteus, upgrade that gives it scout, Moritat with choice of pistols and void shield. Roll up turn one and hopefully blast something off the map with some nice survivability.

[Slips]

Moritats: Can be devastating as much as they can be disappointing. Their effectiveness is down to how much RNGesus favours you that day. Dual Serpentas is the best loadout post Plasma Nerf. Dont spend too much on him because he'll usually disappear post Chain-Fire.

 

Ie: An Imperial Fists Moritat has BS6 with Twin Bolt Pistols. He can theoretically shoot LITERALLY forever (Hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s hitting on 6s again).

 

Destroyers: MC / Multiwound Hunters/Debuffers. The whole squad, apart from the Missile Launchers, is best used as ablative wounds for a Moritat if taken together. Only source of Rad Missiles on Infantry. Horrendously expensive either way. But, I love them and try to make themed lists for them where possible. Their cost means that the list is built around them not them slotted into one.

 

I'd personally run them with Jump Packs and either the Moritat or another attached Character having a Void Shield Harness. That way you have an Av12 Shield, can move 12 (you dont want to charge as first recourse), Shoot their missile Launchers 24" Assault 1 (Suspensor of 48" Heavy 1) and can maximize the squad size for 2 Missile Launchers.

[Captain Idaho]

Where can I find the rules for a Void harness?

 

Jump packs seem extortionate in cost. Not sold yet.

 

thinking of a Moritat high jacking a Rhino and driving around solo might work. Aside from that, a Destroy squad in Rhino with drive by tactics sounds good.

[Charlo]

I believe book 4 for the void harness :)

 

It's 8 Melta bombs iirc

[Slips]

All Relics we will ever mention are in Book 4. 1D4Chan has a brief rundown on what they do if required.

 

Jump Packs are stupid-expensive but at 75 Pts for the whole squad, whether 5 or 10, it only ever becomes "viable" with a 10 man Squad so that you are just paying 7.5 per pack instead of 15.

 

Also, for roughly the same cost as a Rhino, you could give your Moritat the Phase Walker Relic which just lets him zip across the map instead.

 

Relics ~~~ https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_(30k)#Relics

[rendingon1+]

Moritats in Ultramarines version are the best moritats. Why?

Interlocking tactics, that's why. Rerolling 1s to wound in shooting makes plasma shots (that hit) almost auto wounds. Plasma is double dangerous on moritat BUT I I take them always because of two reasons (I play Alpha Legion so sometimes moritat goes with plama-drakaina combo).

1. Moritat is supposed to kill stuff with his pistols. Giving him twin serpentas is not bad but for me his damadge output is below accapteble . 2. You don't always have to do a chainfire - two plasma shots per turn is still cool.

Double plasma on moritat is a gamble but that's the way (a ha a ha) I like it :) Either you roll well and slaughter your opponent's elite squad in one turn or just kill one-two guys. Death from get's hot! happen very rarely. This way or that - worth it.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Double plasma is absolutely trash now, which is a shame as I have 2 double plasma models. Averaging 2 shots before overheat and then losing the next turn of shooting means you might as well always shoot normally as you average more hits across the length of a game. Volkite has the best potential out of all the pistols you can give them, but you need to be right up in their grill to use it properly, so phase walker seems appropriate there. I forget if you can take multiple relics, but that and void harness could make a really frustrating solo character for your opponent to get through as they always tend to freak out after chain fire starts

[Captain Idaho]

Are these special items not in the red book?

[Slips]

You could take 3 Relics if you wanted an absurdly stupid-expensive moritat. Namely:

 

Phase Walker: Essentially become Tracer from Overwatch. Also negates the need for any movement boosting gear such as Transports or Jump Pack. Though using this means he'll be rolling solo 99% of the time.

 

Void Shield Harness: Possibly the best relic we have. An av12 Bubble. Immune to Bolter fire? yes please!

 

Warp Shunt Field: 3++vs Shooting with any 6s reflecting D6 S5 hits back each. Useful when they pop your void shield and start drowning you in Ap2 shots. Could also mean that your Moritat is killing units in your opponents shooting phase too.

 

Or, if you're Alpha Legion:

 

Drakina, the shenanigans pistol.

 

 

Are these special items not in the red book?

Red Books came out before book 4

[SkimaskMohawk]

Do you get invuls on the void shield? Having never used them I'm not sure how they work in conjunction with other rules

[rendingon1+]

Double plasma is absolutely trash now, which is a shame as I have 2 double plasma models. Averaging 2 shots before overheat and then losing the next turn of shooting means you might as well always shoot normally as you average more hits across the length of a game. Volkite has the best potential out of all the pistols you can give them, but you need to be right up in their grill to use it properly, so phase walker seems appropriate there. I forget if you can take multiple relics, but that and void harness could make a really frustrating solo character for your opponent to get through as they always tend to freak out after chain fire starts

Mathammer or experience? Because in my experience he works pretty well (drakaina-plasma works better but double plasma is nice either). Guess I'm lucky then.

[Slips]

Do you get invuls on the void shield? Having never used them I'm not sure how they work in conjunction with other rules

No, you dont. Would be pretty Hilarious if it did stack with the Warp Shunt Field.

[Hesh Kadesh]

That said, in a list like Sons of Horus, Night Lords, which eget benefits for outnumbering. 5 of them provide +10 bodies on a maneuverable basis, with Rad nades. For what they cost, they don't do the damage, but turning a terror squad from 30-40 attacks wounding on 4's rerolling 1's to wound, they become 50-60 attacks wounding on 2's rerolling 1's.

 

A forge lord is cheaper and fits in a 9 man squad in a pod, but slightly less damage, and you still only have 10 men.

[Black_out]

I've been trying to find ways to weasel in destroyers into my army for a while now myself. It's nice you can buy melta bombs for the unit but my god they're expensive. I wish drop pods were an option for them :(

[SkimaskMohawk]

@rendingon well you stop on a 1 or 2 so the odds are the third shot misses and ends it all. Plasmas are much better as an off hand, where you shoot your main gun first and then plasma after that so the fail off the plasma doesn't stop it all

[Charlo]

@rendingon well you stop on a 1 or 2 so the odds are the third shot misses and ends it all. Plasmas are much better as an off hand, where you shoot your main gun first and then plasma after that so the fail off the plasma doesn't stop it all

So how about serpenta & plasma?

[SkimaskMohawk]

Definitely viable, serpenta first and then even if you kill a good amount of guys the plasma should still be in range if you've positioned properly

[Hesh Kadesh]

I tried to run Alpharius with a pair of dual Plasma Moritats. Infiltrate, Scout and Chainfire with Preferred Enemy. It was a lot of points only to realise that BS5 Preferred Enemy has no effect on Gets Hot on a 2+ (I thought it said that the Gets Hot missed. But it doesn't). 

 

The concept was to get Preferred Enemy rerolls on Gets Hot 1 and 2's and 1's to wound. Upon checking... You reroll 1's, but 2's (you could probably milead the FW FAQ monkeys by asking them if the 2's to hit for Chainfire result in the shot missing; in that case the Preferred Enemy would trigger, and badabing, back to unit eraser mode, and Alpharius has paid for himself inside of turn 1 with two units nixed.

[Captain Idaho]

I'm confused with what you're saying? Gets Hot! on a 1, a score of a 2 is a hit anyway.

 

I'm seriously thinking of just going ahead full steam and damning those torpedoes with a unit plus Moritat in a Rhino. All that shooty death and a charge next turn if I need to.

[Black_out]

He thought that when the plasma pistol Gets Hot! the pistol would count as missing. Not realizing that even though it Gets Hot! on a 2, the shot still hits therefore negating preferred enemy for that particular roll.

 

If you manage to roll anything besides a 2 however, you'd be tearing things apart.

[SkimaskMohawk]

He also might not be aware of the FAQ that says plasma gets hot on a 1 or 2 and immediately stops the chain fire

[Hesh Kadesh]

Thanks to the FAQ, the Chainfire rule triggers Gets Hot on a 1 or 2, and triggering Gets Hot automatically stops ALL Chain Fire from generating further hits. (I think that's the intention behind the gibberish).

 

Thanks to Alpharius, LA(AL) gain the Preferred Enemy (Everything) special rule, which allows misses shots, and to wound rolls of 1 to be rerolled.

 

On a BS5 model, you hit on a 2+. Although rolling a 2+ when Chain Firing is a Gets Hot, and therefore stopping the chainfire, the shot still hits; Gets Hot doesn't specify that if the shot hits, it still counts as a miss, because why would it? Natural 1's are a miss. As it stands, rolling a Chainfire with Alpharius providing PE(Everything), if you roll a 1, you get to reroll that, as it's a miss; if I roll a 1 on that reroll, it's a Gets Hot. If I roll a 2 on the reroll, it's a Gets Hot; the reroll causes the shot to hit, but being a Gets Hot result, it stops the Chain Fire continuing. On a 3, no problem, carry on blatting.

 

If I rolled a 2 (exactly 2, not 2+), the problem would be that the Gets Hot would trigger as per the FAQ, but because the shot actually still hits, I wouldn't trigger Preferred Enemy reroll, and therefore would end the Chain Fire immediately.

 

If you wanted to be really sneaky, you could play on the potatoes on work experience from school answering the emails in the minimum wage call centre who get paid to answer as many emails as possible. GW's stance is that the rules don't matter, they're a modeling company. The deskpotatoes can be got rid of with absolute ease if they don't perform, and a backlog of emails from customers is bad for a company. QED, the two go together, and inexperienced players/people who don't actually know the rule end up having to rush out an email. Rather than actually hunting down a rule, they'll either tell you if it sounds correct, or you can use enough slightly technical terms to confuse them into answering a question in the way that benefits you the most. 

 

*While it is an ad hominem to the people who work there, and I've got to admit that I don't know the real reason, I have tested this belief, where on seperate days, I've asked the same question, but angled the answer on each time in opposite answers. On both times, I basically got "oh yes, that's how you do it". These guys don't care about it at the end of the day; they'll just shrug their shoulders that some customer got the wrong rule. Did it cost them any money? Maybe, but not more than what an edition switch would, or update to rules do, often invalidating entire armies (see 6th Edition Orks). 

 

If I biased my question to making that Gets Hot causes the shot to miss, citing the fact that the core rule sees no need to call that out, then I'd be likely to get an answer favouring that line of thinking.

 

That said, I'm a little bit salty that the idea I had didn't perform as well as I'd hoped (both Moritats Chain fired first turn, killed 5 MEQ's, and problem got blown away, because I rolled a 1 and a 2, rerolling the 1 into a 2, and a 2, 5, and a 2. In short, I think that the maths combination of Preferred Enemy turn a 1/3 chance of misfiring into a 1/10 rather than 1 in 36.

 

If gets hot forces the shot to miss, I get Preferred Enemy reroll, which gets me another shot at scoring a 3+ to hit, and continuing with Chainfire. In other words, it's would be a nerf to all other Moritats while Alpha Legion Moritats+Alpharius just come out fresh to death in that single combination.

 

Edit; ninja'd. In an Alpha Legion thread. Who'd a thunk?

[SkimaskMohawk]

Alpharius is truly playing some mind games as this isn't even an alpha legion thread! Or is it?

[Hesh Kadesh]

I have 4 tabs open, and when I get tired of typing in one, i slow down, have a think, and go back to typing in another for a quick refresh. Takes me too long to type things up though XD>

 

And yes, I thought I was in an AL thread. 

 

I still don't think the Heresy actually happened. I just think that all of the Primarchs are actually exact Twins of Alpharius rather than merely brothers, and that all of the Legions are actually Alpha Legion.