GreyCrow Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Hello guys ! I hope you're all well :D So, I've got a bit of an heretic statement for you :p I really feel like getting into 30k, but I don't want to invest 3k points right off the bat to be able to enjoy the game :p I do understand that the larger the game, the more enjoyable it becomes so no need to defend that statement ;) The question is, do you think the game is enjoyable enough with maybe an extra support unit from FW if you start with a Calth box then work your way up ? Or will it be boring ? I mean, in mirror matches it's going to sound like a bit of a luck game and a grinding match with bolters, even with specific legion tactics. Cheers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Rock some zone mortalis at the 1000 points level. Gives you a little taster and you could probably use the Calth tiles to sort yourself a board. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/#findComment-4231074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 It isn't a matter of boring or fun, it's just that quite a bit of the special units are rather expensive and as a result, the game becomes either highly unbalanced or rather monotone when it comes to low-point army lists. So yes, you can do it and yes, you can probably find some fun with it. Especially if you use the Battle of Calth scenarios since they were designed for that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/#findComment-4231077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 Well, the idea is to play with 30k rules on a tabletop, not a board game ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/#findComment-4231086 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hushrong Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I'm with helterskelter. Zone Mortalis is a great way to play small games in my opinion and even more so with what you get in the Betrayal box. I also use space hulk tiles for my games. I bought two sets of tiles off ebay from sellers who only wanted the models. They honestly work great and can fit into one space hulk box. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/#findComment-4231087 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 ZM or tactical strike is good, normal tabletop at low points levels is just boring - there isn't enough space in lists to ensure balance, meaning that there's a good chance one person will have a list the other cannot deal with, or in the case where both are built off BAC, identical lists does not make for an enjoyable game (again, ZM is a possible exception here). EDIT: The simple truth of the matter is that 30k is not designed to be played at a small points size. It can be done, but you're not getting the full experience, which is a huge part of what 30k is about. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/#findComment-4231089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangbanger Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Me and my world eaters played my mate and his sons of Horus last night and had an awesome game at 2k. We decided only troops, dreads and rhinos and it made for a great free flowing, non dragged out game. No reason you couldn't scale it down to 1000/1500 pts if you wanted less than 2k but you can get a good flavour of legions and 30k still. Failing that like others have said, zone mortalis is awesome Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/#findComment-4231161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I play at 1500 but using the rulebook organitzation charts Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/#findComment-4231199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noserenda Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 There are a whole bunch of rules and scenarios to aid smaller games, like the Heresy Cityfight, Raid or Zone Mortalis games, the skirmish campaign system in book 4(?) is pretty fun too, letting your characters level up etc :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/#findComment-4231325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 Thanks guys, you've got cool ideas :D I haven't heard about Tactical Strike though, what is it ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/#findComment-4232154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phalanx Warder Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Not to beat the Zone mortalis horse to death but it is really a great way to get a feel for 30k, I just wrapped up a Zone Mortalis campaign and it was one of the highlights of 30k so far for me. There are plenty of resources you can use and the games are fast paced and brutal plain old good fun. I can't talk about any of the other game types mentioned above, ZM is my thing. Just started a 1000pt World Eaters army built using the ZM: Combatant FoC, using the contents of BoC and I will have the chaplain model, 5 marines and the Contemptor left over. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/#findComment-4232264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000 Sons Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Had a nice 1500 point game last week, was very good. I am drooling to get some of those space hulk tiles for zone mortalis like the above frater was talking about. even at 1500 I ran reaping, two 10 man tacs, 5 man missile launcher, a dreadnaught, a predator and 5 grave wardens led by Calas Typhon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/#findComment-4232310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Honestly, even though I have a ton of points worth of my army, I still actually enjoy ZM more than anything. It's also a lot easier to talk others into starting 30K when you begin with a ZM force. I'd suggest 1500 - 2000 points, as 30K forces start off more expensive in the first place... however, if you're going with the B@C set, you can easily make that. Invest in a board, and you're GTG. I'd suggest picking up the start set for this: http://www.fantasyarc.com/#!shop-bhc/c1fwu Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/#findComment-4232401 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I too will advocate Tactical Strike as a great way to start a Heresy army. It's in "Book Three: Extermination" - I heard that at Adepticon they ran it to great success! Here's the comp pack for it, which is pretty useful for keeping the rules tight: http://adepticon.org/wpfiles/2015/HorusHeresyTacticalStrike.pdf Once you have a decent Tactical Strike force, then you can move onto Zone Mortalis! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/#findComment-4232420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodhrin Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Forgeworld have actually done a really good job of providing folk with a nice progression up to normal size Heresy games. Start out with the Strike Force rules from Extermination, which are essentially "Kill Team, except good", and play that while you do a modest 1-1.5k Zone Mortalis army, and then play both until you've got the usual XBAWXHUEG swarm of Marines people use for the big games. Or, like me, get stuck at the Strike Force stage because deciding which Legion to commit to for a 3k force is hard especially when you can just keep making cool wee themed warbands from all the Legions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/#findComment-4232422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Not enough variety or special units in low point 30k games due to inability to take small/cheap units. I probably wouldn't bother with anything below 1.5k. Regular 40k scales down a lot better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/#findComment-4232479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
zedmeister Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Get Book 4: Conquest and play the Strategic Raid missions - they're designed for 1,500 - 2,000 point games. Attacker has 1 HQ and 2 Elite compulsory units (Elites count as scoring). Defender has 1 HQ, 2 Troops and 1 Fortification as compulsory choices. The missions are geared around elite commando style raids and rapid strikes between small forces - an ideal starting point I reckon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/#findComment-4232614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Not enough variety or special units in low point 30k games due to inability to take small/cheap units. I probably wouldn't bother with anything below 1.5k. Regular 40k scales down a lot better. I wish you could have been here, because I rolled my eyes so hard at this comment that I almost caught a glimpse of my brain. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/#findComment-4233354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Ishagu isnt entirely wrong nor is he entirely right. For standard 30k games using the AoD FoC, no 30k doesnt scale down all that great. However, using the alternate game mode and focs actually alleviates that problem and makes for more interesting list building especially when tanks and stuff are limited. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/#findComment-4233501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Ishagu isnt entirely wrong nor is he entirely right. For standard 30k games using the AoD FoC, no 30k doesnt scale down all that great. However, using the alternate game mode and focs actually alleviates that problem and makes for more interesting list building especially when tanks and stuff are limited. Thanks for seeing my point, Slips. However I still think that it's not that really playable in "smaller" games. Even when using some of the alternative gaming types in the books they are suggesting playing at 1.5k. I wouldn't say that 1500 points is a low point game, although they certainly offer some exciting scenarios with interesting army composition :-) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/#findComment-4233538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Correct. The lowest of the "small" games are usually 1k vs 40ks ~250 (lowest ive seen). But, theres nothing stopping you from using Kill Team and, with some handwavium, porting over 30k units into the system for truly small games for some flavor. The average is 1k but, its just that, an average. Meaning there has been lower and there has been higher (ive played a 5k game using the AoD FoC with only 1 superheavy between us) And with the Campaign system in book 4 you have some pretty wide leeway into being able to play 30k to your hearts content. The challenge, really, is finding the people. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/#findComment-4233543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Yeah, it's still hard to arrange 30k games in my local clubs, no matter the points. There's a World Eater's player with a wonderful looking army led by Angron but he's mostly booked up. Hopefully once my Ultras are totally finished people will be queueing to play me :-) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/#findComment-4233546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Well, if BaC and the amount of FRESH MEAT /pudge weve seen around here, that might change soon enough for a good bunch of us. At that point you bring out your big, beautiful, leatherbound tomes (You have no idea how hard it was for me to not use innuendo) and introduce them to the myriad 30k subsystems we have access to throughout book 1-5 (and beyond). Start with a mini shipboarding campaign using ~300 points in vet squads or the like and let each player take an equivalent in points free character that you'd follow and level up using the book 4 progression system. Create some campaigns using the provided scenarios in the books or not and slowly grow the forces overtime deoending on how fast your group bulks up their forces. Maybe have each person follow a Sargeant who would be their special free character mentioned above and having him rise through the ranks of his legion each time commanding a larger and larger force. Start with Tactical Strike (smallest, iirc) The Zone Mortalis or its variants Then City Fight on a 4x4 with few actual vehicles CF on a 6x4 Strategic Raids Then fullblown AoD. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/#findComment-4233553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 How "hard" was it then Slips? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/#findComment-4233556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 How "hard" was it then Slips? I'm currently in potato mode right now :p can hou clarify I'm missing something here and dont want to talk out the wazoo due to a misunderstanding >_> Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316296-playing-30k-at-low-points-games/#findComment-4233561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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