Army-building theory: Combining Units

[Berzul]

So, when asking for advice against a very nasty Tau Deathstar Unit, the point came up as a critical analysis of the list I played, on the fact that it had been badly scaled up; that the list had been assembled dispropotionately between core and support.

 

This got me thinking into the theory behind army building. Specifically, how to combine units in order to achieve certain effects, and how one unit supports another.

 

From all I've read on the forums, as well as my own (albeit, limited) experience with the game from the time I've been playing it, some units serve very specific -even if at times unclear- purposes.

 

I'd like to propose we discuss a bit about the theory behind building a list, in terms of what units go well with others, creating "teams" of units for specific and important purposes across the battlefield.

 

Take tactical squads, for example. 

 

I usually play 2 tactical squads in my army as the core around which to build a force. I tend to plan one squad to care for objectives, and another go march ahead to engage the enemy directly. I tend to give them both rhinos, for mobility, regardless of the task intended for each squad; be it defensive or offensive.

 

I field them as full 10-man squads, and usually go for plasma on the defensive squad and melta on the offensive squad. Combi weapons and all. I also give the Rhino I have that has a dozer blade, to the offensive squad so as not to have to maneuver around terrain so much.

 

I feel that this basis for the army works well. Takes a lot of points, sure, but it is versatile and can take a good beating before going down. But, against the right enemy, it will go down, and fast.

 

So, what would be good to combine with this squads? 

 

Again, speaking from usual experience, I tend to tag dreadnoughts along. They move a bit slower than the rhinos, sure, but they can withstand some good firepower, and can be equiped for each tactical squad's specific task. 

 

I run a Ven Dread with Assault Cannon or Multi Melta, and a Heavy Flamer, to assist the offensive squad. I run a regular Dread with TL Lascannon or TL Autocannon, to assist the defensive squad. 

 

I find this combinations work well. They are units that inspire caution on my oponents. They requiere heavy weapons to slow down or destroy. The marines can mow down infantry, resist a lot of shots, hold objectives, and the dreads usually generate more threat in the enemy's mind, so they tend to waste a turn or two focusing on the dreadnought that shoots once, instead of the Tactical Squads that rapid fire a lot of shots.

 

When used as a base for an army, my other options go towards speed. This two teams are slower than bikes or other fast attack choices, and I try to complement them with ravenwing options that can sneak past enemy lines and take out key units of my opponent's army.

 

I'd like to leave open this as a discussion to argue over other combinations. See what works well for what, and how this helps in building an army.

 

[Cactus]

It's late here so I'll just say that I think your reasoning is sound. I often use tactical squads in a similar way. When scaled up I increase the number of squads, generally 10 men so I have the option to form combat squads if many smaller units are the better tactical choice. Dreadnoughts are a good way to divert attention from your transport vehicles.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Cactus said, your reasoning is sound. An assault unit needs to have support from a shooty unit and vice versa. Plus a shooty unit also needs support from another shooty unit so their firepower combined can actually kill or maim an enemy unit in order to make them a lesser threat.Units that are isolated from support will usually be picked out and neutralized easier.. So in your example the 2 tactical give mutual support and the dreads provide a nice deterrent and/or counterassault .

[Berzul]

Thanks for the opinions, guys.

 

So, in the interest of discussing other squads, one unit I have always have had trouble with, on paper, is the Deathwing Knight.

 

I do not own the models to use them, and even though I have decided to add some and even went out last week and got me the models, the reason I had put off the idea of gettnig them, is that I do not see clearly how to support this unit, or what it's main goal should be.

 

The models look amanzing, the 3++ save squad-wide is awesome, and despite the changes to Smite that some people feel were a downgrade from the 6th edition version, I think this unit is deadly still. But when I compare them to regular Deathwing Terminators, I always end up feeling that I simply do not understand how Deathwing Knights should be used, and worse yet, how they should be supported.

 

Again, on paper, since I do not own the models to try them, Deathwing Knights are a fully assault unit that can take heavy fire but can't deal it back itself. But unless they are being deployed in a Landraider, making them reach assault looks rather difficult. Terminators of any kind are not the most agile units around, after all. In comparison, a squad of regular Deathwing Terminators could, for almost the same cost, not only have their 2 attacks at S8 AP2 with their power fists, but also bring in storm bolters and cyclone missile launchers for ranged combat, as well as some of their own Storm Shields to guard the squad and tank wounds.

 

Deathwing Terminators seem more versatile, while still being able to destroy (almost) anything they assault. So, what is the upside to go with Knights then?

 

I'm guessing it comes down to how you use them, and more importantly, how you support them, which is what I do not know how to do; which in turn is why I have not used them before.

 

In terms of their purpose, I can't discern if this unit is meant to be a serious assault unit, or rather a VERY tough and threatning squad that disrupts the opponents flow of play. Again, unless they are in a Landraider, I personally feel that a full 10-Deathwing Knights Unit is something you deploy to make opponent dance around the board, or focus all of his/her weapons trying to take this one squad down, disregarding better targets.

 

If this is their better suited purpose, what should the support be? The unit can't fire, so it has to be something that has good firepower. Also, it should be fast, to adjust it's position to keep the knights between itself and whatever is trying to attack it.

 

So that makes me think, some Black Knights (or a Ravenwing Command Squad), or (if going for a formation) a Ravenwing Support Squadron of Darkshroud and Landspeeders with Typhoon Missile Launchers. How about a Nephilim Jet Fighter or a Dark Talon? Maybe with a Skyshield Landing Pad with Ready for Takeoff?

 

And, if I am wrong, and their better purpose IS to engage the enemy and actively get into close combat, be it by deepstriking or driving them in a Landraider, how do you support the squad? What would combine best?

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Deathwing knights are sort of a sponge unit, meaning they absorb and distract your opponent, taking their eyes of the prize and focusing them on the Knights. The knights of course seek to be in CC, where they really shine and can't be shot at. What supports them? Their Land raider if they have one. A Character like a Chaplain or Master, making them even more ferocious and more distracting, They won't need CC support because they can take out punishment... anything that can kill them easy will also kill any CC support they might have. So you support them with shooty units that will take out AP2 threats or big mobs that will take them out by drowning in sheer numbers.

This means that you should ideally have a couple of good shooting units always covering firing line close to your knights in other to tackle any major threats to them.

For me the best unit size for knights is 7-8 so the enemy has to bring out lots of firepower/muscle to take them down. If the opponent is diverting 600-1000 pts of firepower to kill 300 during several turns means they are doing their job great and the rest of your army has an easier time.

[Berzul]

I share that logic. I also feel that they shine more as a sponge unit than as a close combat unit.

 

I'm now thinking how an army should be built around it. Taking the base of using a Deathwing Knight unit as a way to attract attention, as well as dish out some good assault if the opportunity arises.

 

I played with some ideas and followed this logic train. I explain it here, to see if it gives room for a discussion on the theory behind the units you bring in. Not as a review on the units themselves, but rather as a review on the logic behind the army as a whole.

 

First up, to keep it in a CAD, I needed to take the HQ and 2 Troop choices. I took a Company Master, a Scout Squad and a Tactical Squad. Scouts are a cheap way to fill the 2 troop requirements when you need to. 5 Scouts with a missile launcher at 84 points seems to me as a better alternative than an 85 points 5-man tactical squad with a special weapon, to footslog through the board.

 

So, I added the knights. Decided to put the Company Master in with them, to make the unit seem more menacing (and to do better damage if it reaches combat). So, I gave the Company Master a Terminator Armor, and given that this squad has no ranged weapons, a single storm bolter or combi weapon won't do much. Also, since the unit already has enough 3++ saves, and the CM has his Iron Halo, I decided against giving him the Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield combo. So, instead, I gave him 2 Lightning Claws.  I got an extra knight, so the unit can deploy as a circle around the Company Master and protect him. Makes the Company Master even a more psycologicaly tasty target.

 

The scouts I kept at 5, gave em camo cloaks and sniper rifles, as well as a missile launcher. It's cheap to fully equip this squad, and the extra missile shot of frag against infantry comes in handy against the targets you will be shooting at with this squad.

 

The tactical squad I made of 9 marines, so that points would match up with the cost of the scouts, and keep the list at a number divisible by 5, to avoid wasted point. Placed them in a rhino and gave them a plasma gun. The purpose is to tag along the Deathwing Knights, to drop out and shoot at enemies that come after them; giving them some mid-range fire support against light infantry mobs. 

 

So, how to build from there and up?

 

Figured that the list needed some long range fire to support this two squads. Something that can take care of stronger infantry or some elites. Decided to go for a whirlwind squadron. Tactical marines fire at S4 AP5, and this squad fires at S5 AP4 with shred and large blast barrage. This takes care of the heavier infantry.

 

The problem is that this squad is left behind on your side without close combat support. Anything that deepstrikes or outflanks near them will smash through very easily. So, I need something that can protect them. But if I leave a unit behind just for this, I feel like I'd be wasting points. I need something that can attack units that reach my zone, as well as support the vanguard units when there are no units threatening my vehicles.

 

So, I added a Landspeeder Squadron, of 3 Landspeeders with Typhoon Missile Launchers and Heavy Bolters. The idea is mobility and versatility. This unit can use gravity upwash to move across the field very quickly. They can take 6 krak shots a turn at S8 against vehicles and heavily armored units, while the tactical squad takes care of light infantry and whirlwinds take care of heavier infantry. And, if something drops by the whirlwinds, they can quickly move back and take 6 small blasts and 9 heavy bolter shots at whatever comes by.

 

Then it's what is left is something that can fire AP2 weapons to take care of the strongest units. So, I added black knights. Plasma Talons can dispense enough firepower to take out strong elites that have 2+ saves. This is a fast unit that can move quickly, is particularly slippery with its 3+ rerollable jink saves, and can fire 4-8 plasma shots a turn, which should be enough most of the time, since most 2+ save units tend to be smaller in size than 4+ or 5+ save units. As a perk, this means you can deepstrike the DW Knights if you so choose, according to the scenario you are playing.

 

WIth this, the logic is very straighforward. Use the DW Knights act as a sponge. Tacticals support them vs light infantry. Whirlwinds support the tactical against heavier infantry. Black Knights hunt down 2+ save elite units. Landspeeders go against vehicles and watches over deepstriking our outflanking units that might go after the whirlwinds. 

 

You get something that fights well in CC, something that takes out 5+ units, something for 4+ units, something for 2+ and 3+ units, and something for AV units.