Why did Corax flee/withdraw from Curze?

[Daemon2027]

I don't know, Sevetar seemed to have a good solid plan for them. Yes not everyone agrees but still a solid part of the legion was with him. Had Curze not woken up and and attacked the DA hey might of kept the legion in a shape similar to the RG. If they would fall to chaos? Well he was a latent psyker, who knows if the taint could have taken hold, or if he could have rejected it like Talos managed to.

[Corsovitt]

An interesting thought: if Curze had died at Isstvan, would the Night Lords have ever gone "full Chaos," or would they have been so scattered by the end of the war that they would have not been pushed into the Eye with the rest of the traitors? What impact would it have had on the history of 40k if the Night Lords had maintained their original (dubious) sense of justice rather than becoming completely warped?

 

In my opinion the history of the Night Lords goes exactly the same way, Sevatar or whomever takes over either backs the Warmaster and events play out at Thramas although without Kurze's precognition the Dark Angels probably infilict a crippling blow much sooner than occurs in the current timeline or alternatively the Night Lords head back to the fringes of known space, counting down the days until either the Loyalists or Traitors come a looking for them... 

 

The Heresy is defeated at Terra but there will be no forgiveness for the Night Lords even if they took no actual part in the Siege of Terra they still engaged the Loyalist Legions at Isstvan V and as such will be censured...

 

A Callidus Assassin is despatched and removes the new Legion Commander splintering the Legion so that when the massed Scouring Chapters of the Ultramarines turn up history repeats itself and the Night Lords are forced into the Eye of Terror... 

[Kastor Krieg]

Actually, I think killing both Curze and Lorgar wouldn't have changed squat. Night Lords are Night Lords are Night Lords, they don't give a :cuss. Word Bearers at that point were alread rotten through and through and Douchebus was in the ideological control, along with Douche Phaerouche.

 

OTOH, imagine the Horusy Heresy when after Corax's death the Ravens go Blood Angel and all become the HH equivalent of Carcharodons.

 

YIKES! O_O

[d@n]

Or they go all iron hands

[Black_out]

Douchebus

I just spit my coffee everywhere LOL

[Balthamal]

Lorgar's death would have been far more significant than Curze's. You've got the architect of Chaos vs a Primarch whose own Legion is more loyal to his favourite son than him.

 

Lorgar dies - Angron dies to the nails or is put down by one (several) of the other Primarchs when he finally loses control. 

                     The XVII Legion schisms between those loyal to Argel Tal, Erebus and Kor Phaeron.

                     Ultramar doesn't burn and no Ruinstorm envelops the eastern half of the galaxy

                     Or....the full might of the XVII attacks Calth, the XIII are annihilated and the 500 Worlds burn in sacrifice to the Pantheon.

                     Erebus gets too arrogant with his newfound power, Horus grows tired of being manipulated but instead of (spoiler) he finds a hundred thousand loyal                              warriors behind the snake and the Heresy collapses upon itself in it's own civil war.

 

Curze dies - The Legion falls under the command of Sevatar. They scatter and bleed the Imperium for the next several years before arriving on Terra for the "Last Day"

[Daemon2027]

Yeah Lorgar would have been a huge blow. I think many of the Primarchs Primarchs still need him to guid them down the path of chaos. Did he also not have a hand in Magnus eventual decision to join the traitors?

[b1soul]

In hindsight, killin Curze wouldn't have been that major. Lorgar on the other hand...definitely agree with you guys.

 

I also think Corax's contribution to the loyalist effort was pretty significant post-massacre

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

maybe I'm just bummed about the novella releasing tidbits of Corax's story, but I dont see his accomplishments outweighing his failures right now. 

 

Loosing the Marine spamminator was pretty terrible.

 

WLK

[Conn Eremon]

maybe I'm just bummed about the novella releasing tidbits of Corax's story, but I dont see his accomplishments outweighing his failures right now.

 

Loosing the Marine spamminator was pretty terrible.

 

WLK

I believe he meant the ongoing Isstvan battle after the initial Massacre, not post-Isstvan.

 

And he is right, Corax was essential to the survival of remaining planetside Loyalist forces, to the point that there very easily could have been none had he fallen to Curze and Lorgar.

 

Which again, it would have been interesting to see how the dominoes had fallen, had both Corax and Lorgar gone the way of Ferrus. I'm inclined to believe Lorgar's death would have been more of a game-changer, Corax's death more relevant to the XIX, the Shattered Legions and future Alpha Legion machinations.

 

At least, as things stand now. We still have what, four years of the Heresy left?

[Kol Saresk]

 

maybe I'm just bummed about the novella releasing tidbits of Corax's story, but I dont see his accomplishments outweighing his failures right now.

 

Loosing the Marine spamminator was pretty terrible.

 

WLK

I believe he meant the ongoing Isstvan battle after the initial Massacre, not post-Isstvan.

 

And he is right, Corax was essential to the survival of remaining planetside Loyalist forces, to the point that there very easily could have been none had he fallen to Curze and Lorgar.

 

Which again, it would have been interesting to see how the dominoes had fallen, had both Corax and Lorgar gone the way of Ferrus. I'm inclined to believe Lorgar's death would have been more of a game-changer, Corax's death more relevant to the XIX, the Shattered Legions and future Alpha Legion machinations.

 

At least, as things stand now. We still have what, four years of the Heresy left?

Three, technically. Vengeful Spirit is Year IV.

[Memento Of Prospero]

It was in too deep and against a fresh opponent. Even if Lorgar was a WWE jobber skill wise, it was still a fight. Once he escaped and fell back with his legion, his harassment of the backlines and ambushes post Isstvan were a really pain in the rear for the traitor legions.

[JeffJedi]

Corax felt he still had a job to do and couldn't follow the same path as Ferrus. Ferrus let his emotion take control and it got him killed. He had a duty to his father and to his sons. It took a lot of self control to pull back and to not attack Angron head on later. Even if he killed Lorgar, Konrad or Angron he still wouldn't have Horus and the Emperor would have been in danger.

[Captain Idaho]

There's little chance of Corax killing Angron. I believe be could have killed at least Lorgar and that would have changed everything. No Ruinstorm, no Daemon Angron, Ultramarines, Blood Angels and Dark Angels in the fight from the start.

 

However, you can't predict the future. You play the hand you're dealt. Corax can't be blamed for fleeing 2 Primarchs whilst trying to survive Isstvan.

[Plasmablasts]

Had Corax killed Lorgar, Argel Tal would probably have asked Erebus to bring him back.

 

Whether Erebus would have complied though...?

[Kol Saresk]

There's little chance of Corax killing Angron. I believe be could have killed at least Lorgar and that would have changed everything. No Ruinstorm, no Daemon Angron, Ultramarines, Blood Angels and Dark Angels in the fight from the start.

 

However, you can't predict the future. You play the hand you're dealt. Corax can't be blamed for fleeing 2 Primarchs whilst trying to survive Isstvan.

I'm not sure it would have fixed the Blood Angels. If I recall the timeline correctly, Signus is either just before Istvaan 5, or it is simultaneous to Istvaan V. And since they go straight from Signus to Year III of Heresy by arriving in Ultramar, it would still be a while before they join the fight. That said, they would be able to go straight from arriving in Ultramar to entering the Heresy proper.

 

I have to wonder how the Shadow Crusade would have been handled. I don't see Erebus and Kor Phaeron as the type of commanders to send out various fleets to cause mayhem and destruction in several directions. They strike me as the kind who would want the Legion to travel as a single entity. And while that would have been bad for anyone they came across, it would have probably given Guilliman the time he needs to organize a proper defense and probably even begin whittling down the XVII piece by piece. At the very least, I'd imagine a noticeable shift in the "what if" scenario.

[Relict]

Douchebus was in the ideological control, along with Douche Phaerouche.

Aaand I just choked on my tea.