rendingon1+ Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I just noticed a funny thing while reading "A Thousand Sons" (for a thousandth time). Here's a fragment of Edict of Nikaea. .....I see now I have allowed my sons to delve too profoundly into matters I should never have permitted them to know even existed. Let it be known that no one shall suffer censure, for this conclave is to serve Unity, not discord. But no more shall the threat of sorcery be allowed to taint the warriors of the Astartes. Henceforth, it is my will that no Legion will maintain a Librarius department. All its warriors and instructors must be returned to the battle companies and never again employ any psychic powers..... Can someone tell me why Rogal Dorn disobeyed Emperor's ruling? By keeping all of his Librarians "safe" in Phalanx's closet he defied the edict because: a) neither did they return to rank and file by secluding Librarians from the rest of the Legion he de facto preserved Librarius as it was. Well? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I just noticed a funny thing while reading "A Thousand Sons" (for a thousandth time). Here's a fragment of Edict of Nikaea. .....I see now I have allowed my sons to delve too profoundly into matters I should never have permitted them to know even existed. Let it be known that no one shall suffer censure, for this conclave is to serve Unity, not discord. But no more shall the threat of sorcery be allowed to taint the warriors of the Astartes. Henceforth, it is my will that no Legion will maintain a Librarius department. All its warriors and instructors must be returned to the battle companies and never again employ any psychic powers.....Can someone tell me why Rogal Dorn disobeyed Emperor's ruling? By keeping all of his Librarians "safe" in Phalanx's closet he defied the edict because:a) neither did they return to rank and file b) by secluding Librarians from the rest of the Legion he de facto preserved Librarius as it was. Well? Oh, they are assigned to latrine duty, forever aboard the Phalanx and to increase their effectiveness, they are chained to the specific area assigned to them in solitary confinement. No librarius here! Move along... ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/#findComment-4234164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 Oh, they are assigned to latrine duty, forever aboard the Phalanx and to increase their effectiveness, they are chained to the specific area assigned to them in solitary confinement. No librarius here! Move along... That makes sense brother. I can imagine some poor epistolary unclogging a toilet with his force staff and then putting some rare "scrolls of knowledge" on the holder. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/#findComment-4234187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I just noticed a funny thing while reading "A Thousand Sons" (for a thousandth time). Here's a fragment of Edict of Nikaea. .....I see now I have allowed my sons to delve too profoundly into matters I should never have permitted them to know even existed. Let it be known that no one shall suffer censure, for this conclave is to serve Unity, not discord. But no more shall the threat of sorcery be allowed to taint the warriors of the Astartes. Henceforth, it is my will that no Legion will maintain a Librarius department. All its warriors and instructors must be returned to the battle companies and never again employ any psychic powers.....Can someone tell me why Rogal Dorn disobeyed Emperor's ruling? By keeping all of his Librarians "safe" in Phalanx's closet he defied the edict because:a) neither did they return to rank and file by secluding Librarians from the rest of the Legion he de facto preserved Librarius as it was. Well? Imprisonment is hardly leaving the Librarius intact. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/#findComment-4234198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol_Invictus Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 But it's certainly not returning them to their battle companies... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/#findComment-4234209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumah Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Imprisonment is also not returning its members to the battle companies... OP has a point here; by the letter of the Big E's ruling, Rogal is defying his wishes. Especially when we consider "must be" was used in the wording. Edit: Sol beat me to it! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/#findComment-4234210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Your right. Dorn has taken it a step farther to prevent ANY use of psychic powers. Almost like he took his fathers orders too far. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/#findComment-4234215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulf Vengis Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 "These astartes here? They are janitorium. No those are not glowing auras around their heads not are they psychic hoods. So as you can see here we are in full compliance with the emperors edict." Perhaps don't think of it as imprisonment. He placed them all aboard the phalanx to create a terrifying weapon hidden amongst the rest of his battle companies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/#findComment-4234221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 @Marshal Rohr Since when Imperial Fists interpret Emperor's orders?And how would you explain the fact that Dorn allowed them to keep librarian stuff (force wepons/psychic hoods) while in every other legion (1k sons do not count) former librarians had to deposit their "tools of the trade" and had to do with trusty ol' bolter only? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/#findComment-4234226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 @Marshal Rohr Since when Imperial Fists interpret Emperor's orders? And how would you explain the fact that Dorn allowed them to keep librarian stuff (force wepons/psychic hoods) while in every other legion (1k sons do not count) former librarians had to deposit their "tools of the trade" and had to do with trusty ol' bolter only? Don't forget that the Wolves and Scars also disobeyed the Edict. And the Word Bearers. And the World Eaters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/#findComment-4234234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I think Wulf Vengis has hit the nail on the head here; Dorn was probably keeping them in reserve in case things got a little bit freaky deeky and he needed a trump card against foes x, y and z. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/#findComment-4234244 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 Word Bearers and World Eaters - only after they turned traitor (or so I think). Wolves - "their power came from Fenris, not from the Warp" Scars - can't recall why and how (also Alpha Legion for "special missions assigments") But we're talking about Dorn and Fists. Keeping them "as a hidden weapon" is still in defiance of the Edict. Neither disbanded, nor returned to battle compnies. -10 loyalty points from GryffinDorn I say. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/#findComment-4234250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Word Bearers and World Eaters - only after they turned traitor (or so I think). Wolves - "their power came from Fenris, not from the Warp" Scars - can't recall why and how (also Alpha Legion for "special missions assigments") But we're talking about Dorn and Fists. Keeping them "as a hidden weapon" is still in defiance of the Edict. Neither disbanded, nor returned to battle compnies. -10 loyalty points from gryffinDorn I say. Oh, I thought you actually wanted answers. You're just making up :cuss to start an internet argument. Well have fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/#findComment-4234262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Word Bearers organized all of their psykers into a special Chaoter called the "Chapter of the Void" that conducted RnD in the years leading up to the Heresy. The World Eaters just hated their psykers so they ostracized them into becoming a self-contained group. Scars did something similar by hiding all of their Stormseers on their homeworld. But yeah, kind of funny how worthless the Edict actually turned out to be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/#findComment-4234270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Word Bearers organized all of their psykers into a special Chaoter called the "Chapter of the Void" that conducted RnD in the years leading up to the Heresy. The World Eaters just hated their psykers so they ostracized them into becoming a self-contained group. Scars did something similar by hiding all of their Stormseers on their homeworld. But yeah, kind of funny how worthless the Edict actually turned out to be. Where did the chapter of the void thing come from? That sounds insanely cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/#findComment-4234281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Battle for the Abyss. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/#findComment-4234283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Well that's a kick in the balls. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/#findComment-4234288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Raven Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Almost like he took his fathers orders too far. I feel like killing all librarians would be more in line with taking "disband the librarius" too far than imprisoning them. Maybe Dorn thought mass executions were indeed the logical conclusion and chose imprisonment instead because he's not Perturabo/Angron/Curze/Mortarion. It's also possible Master of Mankind will show us the Emperor told Dorn to do what he did because reasons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/#findComment-4234290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 Oh, I thought you actually wanted answers. You're just making up to start an internet argument. Well have fun. Please.. I still want answers - I haven't read everything (yet) and mayby there's some text about "special circumstances". The only explenation of your behaviour I can see is that you don't like some facts and lack argument. That's terrible that Dorn is not as cool as you thought. Feel like Dark Angel. I feel like killing all librarians would be more in line with taking "disband the librarius" too far than imprisoning them. Maybe Dorn thought mass executions were indeed the logical conclusion and chose imprisonment instead because he's not Perturabo/Angron/Curze/Mortarion. It's also possible Master of Mankind will show us the Emperor told Dorn to do what he did because reasons. That's most plausible, however I always thought that Imperial Fists (starting from Rogal Dorn) always "obeyed to the letter". That's why I can't understand it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/#findComment-4234291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Could we not attack each other, please? We're all on the same side here. So far, we actually have no background info on why Dorn did what he did. Maybe we'll find out in a future release such as Master of Mankind like KotR speculated or another release. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/#findComment-4234305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Oh, I thought you actually wanted answers. You're just making up to start an internet argument. Well have fun. Please..I still want answers - I haven't read everything (yet) and mayby there's some text about "special circumstances". The only explenation of your behaviour I can see is that you don't like some facts and lack argument. That's terrible that Dorn is not as cool as you thought. Feel like Dark Angel. Your existential angst at disliking the body of work surrounding your legion is your problem. Dorn obviously didn't do anything the Emperor or the powers over the Primarchs disapproved of, given he parked the Phalanx right over Terra for the duration of the Heresy. So it really doesn't matter if they were returned to the battle companies, since the Emperor or Malcador didn't say anything about imprisonment after the Fists returned to Terra. In fact, your whole point is invalid because Malcador had one of the Librarians busted out of the prison to be a knight errant. That's all the facts you need. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/#findComment-4234306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calas Typhon Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Ladies, be calm or the mods will take a melta gun to the thread! I believe that Dorn simply took the easy route out in my opinion, rather than take the risk of betrayal to the order or events happening, he simply locked them up to prevent it. Was he at Nikea do we know? I can't really recall. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/#findComment-4234317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Ladies, be calm or the mods will take a melta gun to the thread! I believe that Dorn simply took the easy route out in my opinion, rather than take the risk of betrayal to the order or events happening, he simply locked them up to prevent it. Was he at Nikea do we know? I can't really recall. Not that I recall. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/#findComment-4234324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Are we back to 1 dimensional characterisations again? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/#findComment-4234326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 Oh, I thought you actually wanted answers. You're just making up to start an internet argument. Well have fun. Please..I still want answers - I haven't read everything (yet) and mayby there's some text about "special circumstances". The only explenation of your behaviour I can see is that you don't like some facts and lack argument. That's terrible that Dorn is not as cool as you thought. Feel like Dark Angel. Your existential angst at disliking the body of work surrounding your legion is your problem. Dorn obviously didn't do anything the Emperor or the powers over the Primarchs disapproved of, given he parked the Phalanx right over Terra for the duration of the Heresy. So it really doesn't matter if they were returned to the battle companies, since the Emperor or Malcador didn't say anything about imprisonment after the Fists returned to Terra. In fact, your whole point is invalid because Malcador had one of the Librarians busted out of the prison to be a knight errant. That's all the facts you need. That's embarassing. You've seen the Edict and know how Dorn defied it. Yet you still deny. Malcador's project is not argument at all because he's above Edict of Nikaea or any other law. And there's no "existential angst" on my part - I know it's just a game and fiction. How about you? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316415-edict-of-nikea-imperial-fists/#findComment-4234327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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