depthcharge12 Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 So I was curious of how one wounds a rapier battery wth the Levi dread equipped with the grav flux bombard. Considering I was thinking of how one of these would annihilate a rapier battery on the drop to let a Spartan go unmolested. Now the bombard uses a 2d6 STRENGTH test not a toughness test, and the rapier lacks a strength stat, but the gunners do. Yet when the model is shot at, they always use the rapier's majority toughness. So now, is the squad auto removed, or tested on a Strength stat of 4 for the whole unit? And if the rapier is specifically targeted, is it auto removed? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Individual Test for every model, no? Since the Actual Rapier doesnt have strength it'd get more or less auto-wounded since it'd auto-fail the test meaning it'd get removed. Thats how I see it, anyways. What does the BRB say about using Average Stats for Statistics? or does it only describe specific stats? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/#findComment-4238085 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 It's a tricky one. I would say that the closest model determines it. Most people run a gunner up front, then the Rapier, then the other gunner. Let's say you land the Large Blast marker dead on the Rapier and hit both crew. That means 3 Strength tests. If you put a gunner up front, he makes Strength tests one at a time until he fails and then move on to the next model in line. The Rapier is next, which means it auto-fails and takes a wound (or auto-fails 2, more than likely). Chances are that you'll kill a gunner and the Rapier, leaving a lone gunner alive. No really good defence against this, provided I've interpreted it correctly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/#findComment-4238088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share Posted November 29, 2015 Well the plan is to drop the Levi in a pod in a favorable position so that you can just kill the rapiers first. Then the Bolter crew would be essentially worthless. It just auto gibs something nasty like a 3 grav rapier battery instantly if you get the template on them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/#findComment-4238091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Juat follow the rules. Each model caught in blast rolls Strength on a 2d6 taking a wound if failed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/#findComment-4238103 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share Posted November 29, 2015 Juat follow the rules. Each model caught in blast rolls Strength on a 2d6 taking a wound if failed. Yes but then does the rapier auto fail because it has no strength stat to speak of? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/#findComment-4238120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Yep, it sure does. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/#findComment-4238170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Is it autofail or autopass though ? For example, vehicles lack an initiative characteristic so they autopass blind tests. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/#findComment-4238206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Thats because their profile has no initiative to speak of. vehicles such as walkers do and can fail initiative tests. This has Strength on its profile and is listed as having none means that when asked to roll for a characteristics test, it needs to roll equal to or below its stat, in this case 0, failing it instantly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/#findComment-4238210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Okay thanks, that makes sense. Out of curiosity, would a natural 1 result in an automatic pass ? I remember seeing somewhere that a roll of 1 is always considered failed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/#findComment-4238610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 I'd assume so in the same way that 6's can be automatic success' / fails. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/#findComment-4238621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Yeah, with characteristic tests you'll always pass on a 1 & fail on a 6, no matter the characteristic value. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/#findComment-4238785 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 There's no way you'd get a 1 though. It's on a 2d6... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/#findComment-4238835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Ergo, you auto-fail :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/#findComment-4238839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Lord Loki Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Or conversely you cant test against the actual rapier however having hit 3 models thats three tests on the crew who if all dead take the rapier out of commission anyway. I would argue its like saying if it auto wounds that it damages vehicles as they dont have a wounds characteristic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/#findComment-4258152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Or conversely you cant test against the actual rapier however having hit 3 models thats three tests on the crew who if all dead take the rapier out of commission anyway. I would argue its like saying if it auto wounds that it damages vehicles as they dont have a wounds characteristic Except it states in its rules how it goes about damaging vehicles so its not really an issue :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/#findComment-4258155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 So a 1 can't be rolled as an automatic pass, but a 6 can be rolled via 1+5/2+4/3+3. Are those automatic fails for anything too? :P maybe this is a hornets nest best left unstirred he thinks as he hits the post button Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/#findComment-4258336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I know it seems like a hornet's nest, but I don't really see what's so complicated about this. The Rapier carriage cannot pass, regardless of being able to roll a 1 or not, as it has no Strength to test on. The rest of it is just as per the rules; number of hits caught in the blast, resolved against the closest models, that "wound" by failing Strength tests on 2D6. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/#findComment-4258368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaolin_Monkey Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 still a little vague at least though, the rapier doesn't have "0" Str (because if it did it would be removed as a casualty as soon as its on the board) it has "-" which is different enough to at least let it stay on the board.so it must roll equal to or under "-" on 2D6.... but given that "-" has no numerical value how can you clearly assert that 12 is not under it? not saying id play it that way necessarily but its still left vague and not at all as clear as its made out to be by my reading. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/#findComment-4258388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000 Sons Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I think I would agree that it causes 2 hits on the crew, and the gun can't be affected since it has no strength listed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/#findComment-4258390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 It's really not complicated, mostly a joke post. No strength = no pass on rapiers, sure. My feeling on the 2D6 test is that if you can't roll a natural 1 or 6 on 1D6 the BRB is ignored, because that's all it accounts for (1D6 tests). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/#findComment-4258392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Guys, straight out of the BRB for characteristic tests Automatic Pass and Fail If a rule states that a characteristic test ‘automatically passes’ then no dice roll is needed; the test is passed. Similarly, if a rule states that a characteristic test ‘automatically fails’, then no dice roll is needed; that test fails. If the model has a characteristic of ‘-’ or 0, it automatically fails the test. If we're going to have rules arguments, at least look them up? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/#findComment-4258395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaolin_Monkey Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 It's really not complicated, mostly a joke post. No strength = no pass on rapiers, sure. My feeling on the 2D6 test is that if you can't roll a natural 1 or 6 on 1D6 the BRB is ignored, because that's all it accounts for (1D6 tests). doesn't this same argument mean that it has no strength so as per "Zero-level characteristics" all artillery is "removed from play as a casualty" automatically then? Guys, straight out of the BRB for characteristic tests Automatic Pass and Fail If a rule states that a characteristic test ‘automatically passes’ then no dice roll is needed; the test is passed. Similarly, if a rule states that a characteristic test ‘automatically fails’, then no dice roll is needed; that test fails. If the model has a characteristic of ‘-’ or 0, it automatically fails the test. If we're going to have rules arguments, at least look them up? I did look it up. missed the little '-' bit as im looking at it my phone and its a little small. Fair call then, they auto fail. Still doesn't clear up how they can be on the table at all without auto removal though.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/#findComment-4258396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Some creatures have been given a 0 for certain characteristics, which means that they have no ability whatsoever in that field (the same is also occasionally represented by a ‘–’). A model with Weapon Skill ‘0’ is incapacitated; they are hit automatically in close combat and cannot strike any blows. A model with no Attacks cannot strike any blows in close combat. A warrior with an Armour Save of ‘–’ has no armour save at all. If at any point, a model’s Strength, Toughness or Wounds are reduced to 0, it is removed from play as a casualty. Zero-level characteristics talks about stats being reduced to zero, meaning that starting at zero is perfectly fine; if you buffed the strength of artillery via some psychic power (don't think its possible) and then it ended then it would technically die as its strength had been reduced to 0 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/#findComment-4258405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 It isn't strength 0, it is a non ability. '-' +1 isnt 1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316546-grav-bombard-and-rapiers/#findComment-4258407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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