DIY Chapter: Looking for Opinions and Advice

[Brother Augustine]

First DIY in over 2 years, hopefully I'll actually finish this one. I'm just kind of spit-balling ideas at this point, trying to find out what sticks and I would love any feedback I can get at this point.

 

I'm thinking a Codex adherent Chapter; Ultramarines Genestock, courtesy of the Mortifactors, from an early(ish) stable founding, maybe the 14th.

 

For their homeworld, I figured something primitive. I'm not sure if I want a feral world or a medieval one with a rich warrior culture that they can exploit for their chapter. Maybe I can find a way to blur the line a little? Medieval Death world, perhaps?

 

One thing I am kind of stuck on is the concept of an early disaster in the Chapter's history that helps define them to this day. The idea in my head is that the Chapter had a headstrong, glory-hungry mindset with a less than reverent view of the Codex. This led them to engage in a battle/campaign that nearly destroyed the chapter. They survived, but were changed; they abandoned their previous obsession with glory, adopted a strict interpretation of the Codex, and came to worship the Emperor as a god, believing that his divine intervention is what spared them from annihilation.

 

I was thinking that they would have a rocky relationship with the Ministorum due to differences in their belief systems, the chapter's own intolerance not helping matters.

 

Speaking of their belief systems, I kind of want to have a sort of bicameral cult within the chapter with both the reclusiam and librarium each fulfilling a role in the chapter's spiritual practices. I'm not sure how yet, but I just like the idea. I'm still tossing ideas around in my head for the cult itself but a handful of the tenets that I have in mind are: 

1. Astartes are the pinnacle of man, the Emperor's chosen sons. Lesser men must prove themselves in the fires of combat. Those who don't are worthless in his sight.
2. True warriors of the Emperor (Mortal or Astartes) fight for his honor, not their own glory or fortunes. The Emperor punishes the false and the foolhardy.
3. True warriors are relentless, ruthless, and steadfast. The galaxy leaves no room for anything else.
4. Those who cower behind the shields of others deserve neither pity nor mercy. The Emperor demands conflict to make mankind strong and worms such as these must be excised from the body of the faithful.

Also considering a battle-forged alliance with a Knightly House, but that's really garnish so I've got it pretty low on the priority list.

 

That's all I have thus far. I'll add more to this thread as ideas solidify.

[Olis]

I think that the kind of major transition of dogma in chapter culture your talking about is pretty significant and would require a significant influx of new thinking. One way I can think of going about this is to have the early chapter culture at odds with the planetary culture of their homeworld. With the destruction of most of the chapter (presumably everyone in authority is dead, included the chaplains) the new initiates aren't inducted into the old chapter culture as much as their predecessors were. This then allows the homeworld culture to overtake the chapter.

[Brother Augustine]

So, kind of a situation where most/all of the old thinkers were killed, and so the survivors were left to put the pieces back together the only way they knew how? Ok, I think I can definitely work with that. Thanks!

[Olis]

I think if you wish to explore the issue further, you could delve into hypno-indoctrination methods and what the survivors contributed to the change in ideology. Such a significant change will always be multi-faceted - the causes, the effects and the ramifications. 

[Brother Augustine]

I have been planning out the ideas for the Chapter Doctrine laid down by the first Master of Sanctity after the disaster, and am hoping to get them posted soon. I know in his case, he saw it as divine punishment for the "moral failings" of the Chapter, it wouldn't be hard for a (relatively) senior brother to manipulate the thoughts and ideals of younger brothers and new initiates, especially with the kind of shell shock they'd be experiencing in the wake of all that death, and with him being in a position to oversee and educate all new recruits.

 

When you mentioned hypno-indoctrination, did you  mean the methods used before or after the disaster, and did you have a specific example in mind?

[Olis]

When you mentioned hypno-indoctrination, did you  mean the methods used before or after the disaster, and did you have a specific example in mind?

 

Iirc, hypno-indoctrination brain washes an astartes into utter loyalty to the Throne and usually eliminates or suppresses many of their memories from before they came to the Chapter. I think any significant break in chapter culture or attitude could be partially attributed to a change in those methods (or a cessation of them altogether). I think in this particular case it could be possible that, with the devastation of the Chapter hierarchy, that hypno-indoctrination methods aren't fully applied properly (by once-junior members of the chapter) and so newer members of the Chapter retain much of their memories and attitudes from their childhood. Sure, it could still make them fanatically loyal and fulfil all the usual functions but the memory wipe part just doesn't take (or is less effective). That's where the homeworld culture starts to creep in. 

[Camillo]

I like it - a chapter severely wounded by hubris becomes penitent and devout.  This feels like a Black Templar - style chapter, always on the offensive. To make this work, flesh out the primitive culture that has begun to overtake the chapter - I found myself wanting to know more about it before I even got to the end of your write-up.  Primitive or savage cultures have a built-in "wow" factor... just look at the Space Wolves.  So much of the chapter's organization and military practice can be defined by it that getting it right can lead you down a million different paths. 

 

As to the disaster that destroyed their command structure, it could be a lot of things depending on their galactic location - in the Galactic South (near Ultramar), you have the Tau. I like that one because no one has a history where they lose to the Tau, let alone are almost wiped out by it.  Orks, Tyranids, and rebels are the most common foes in the Galactic East (the Outer Rim in general).  Traitors and Chaos are most common in the Core and the Galactic North (near the Eye of Terror).  

 

If I were choosing, I'd go with the Tau or with rebels from the Rim - Chaos is the go-to enemy in most of the fluff, and it gets old reading about those kind of fights.  

 

As an entirely different option from the Rouge Trader era, they could have been wiped out by a Genestealer Cult. Before they were just foot soldiers in the Tyrannic army, Generstealers were there own army in the 40k universe, infecting host bodies and altering their genetic code so that each subsequent generation would be a hybrid of host/Genestealer DNA (hence, Gene Stealers). Part of the infection created a chemical imbalance that drove the infected to want to have a s many children as possible, and the latent psychic nature of the offspring ensured that the host parents would remain fiercely loyal to their offspring no matter what.  This led to whole planets becoming infested with Genestealers and hybrids within four or five generations.  The rot is hard to spot before it's too late because whole communities are keeping the infestation away from the public eye through a combination of psychic influence and fear that if the Imperium finds out, the planet will be exterminated. When finally uncovered, the war to remove them is brutal, as most of the planetary population fights against the Imperial forces out of "love" for their infected family members, or out of fear of Exterminatus.

 

If your chapter had been tasked with destroying an alien presence on a planet, and instead needed up fighting a planetary war, it could account for the loss of much of the chapter, especially if they went in quickly without doing proper recon.  The drive for glory could have made them heedless of the danger.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Brother Augustine]

I like it - a chapter severely wounded by hubris becomes penitent and devout. This feels like a Black Templar - style chapter, always on the offensive. To make this work, flesh out the primitive culture that has begun to overtake the chapter - I found myself wanting to know more about it before I even got to the end of your write-up. Primitive or savage cultures have a built-in "wow" factor... just look at the Space Wolves. So much of the chapter's organization and military practice can be defined by it that getting it right can lead you down a million different paths.

As to the disaster that destroyed their command structure, it could be a lot of things depending on their galactic location - in the Galactic South (near Ultramar), you have the Tau. I like that one because no one has a history where they lose to the Tau, let alone are almost wiped out by it. Orks, Tyranids, and rebels are the most common foes in the Galactic East (the Outer Rim in general). Traitors and Chaos are most common in the Core and the Galactic North (near the Eye of Terror).

If I were choosing, I'd go with the Tau or with rebels from the Rim - Chaos is the go-to enemy in most of the fluff, and it gets old reading about those kind of fights.

As an entirely different option from the Rouge Trader era, they could have been wiped out by a Genestealer Cult. Before they were just foot soldiers in the Tyrannic army, Generstealers were there own army in the 40k universe, infecting host bodies and altering their genetic code so that each subsequent generation would be a hybrid of host/Genestealer DNA (hence, Gene Stealers). Part of the infection created a chemical imbalance that drove the infected to want to have a s many children as possible, and the latent psychic nature of the offspring ensured that the host parents would remain fiercely loyal to their offspring no matter what. This led to whole planets becoming infested with Genestealers and hybrids within four or five generations. The rot is hard to spot before it's too late because whole communities are keeping the infestation away from the public eye through a combination of psychic influence and fear that if the Imperium finds out, the planet will be exterminated. When finally uncovered, the war to remove them is brutal, as most of the planetary population fights against the Imperial forces out of "love" for their infected family members, or out of fear of Exterminatus.

If your chapter had been tasked with destroying an alien presence on a planet, and instead needed up fighting a planetary war, it could account for the loss of much of the chapter, especially if they went in quickly without doing proper recon. The drive for glory could have made them heedless of the danger.

Just my thoughts.

Both sound better than the vague idea of them attempting to destroy a Space Hulk that was bouncing around in my head. Thanks for the advice! I'll also definitely put some more thought into their homeworld.

When you mentioned hypno-indoctrination, did you mean the methods used before or after the disaster, and did you have a specific example in mind?

Iirc, hypno-indoctrination brain washes an astartes into utter loyalty to the Throne and usually eliminates or suppresses many of their memories from before they came to the Chapter. I think any significant break in chapter culture or attitude could be partially attributed to a change in those methods (or a cessation of them altogether). I think in this particular case it could be possible that, with the devastation of the Chapter hierarchy, that hypno-indoctrination methods aren't fully applied properly (by once-junior members of the chapter) and so newer members of the Chapter retain much of their memories and attitudes from their childhood. Sure, it could still make them fanatically loyal and fulfil all the usual functions but the memory wipe part just doesn't take (or is less effective). That's where the homeworld culture starts to creep in.

Ok, I can see how that would work. Awesome, I really appreciate it!

[Camillo]

Glad I could help. I'm working on a devout chapter myself, and would appreciate a look - over by another set of eyes. If you get a chance, I would appreciate your input!

[Brother Augustine]

So I was thinking of doing a medieval death world as the homeworld for the chapter. Something about the idea just stuck with me;  I like the idea of heroic knights going on monster hunting quests that catch the eye of the chapter, but I don't want to just recreate old Caliban. Should I scratch the idea all together, or would it work without the chaotic influences that Caliban had? Maybe just alien fauna that inhabited the planet before it was settled? Or some kind of ancient psuedo-tyranid type creatures like the Krakens on Fenris?

[Olis]

I think you need to put a new spin on the idea itself. Just swapping out one thing for something else, something completely incongruous, could make for a very interesting alternative.

 

At the moment, the idea is a medieval death world with knights. Not exactly ground breaking but it's not a bad idea. Let's push the boat out a bit. What about a medieval hive world? Sounds pretty odd, right? Odd is interesting. Odd begs questions. Odd conjurs up mental imagery and is characterful. It has to be used sparingly, though. Don't rely on it like a crutch. But putting something odd amongst the mundane makes things much more interesting in the end.

 

You'd still have knights and horses and peasants but what else does such a world have? Gangs. On a medieval worlds that translates into brigands, footpads and cutpurses, the sort of scum that provides ample opportunity for conflict outside of war and the like. What about the 'hives' themselves? Do we build grand conurbations with stone? If so, how do we keep these monstrosities from collapsing in on themselves? AdMech help? Aid from off world? Could the hives be relics from an earlier age?

 

Let's move on. Maybe we keep the whole medieval death world idea, but throw in something else. Like it being an abhuman world and it's filled with albinos. Or the death world element has forced everyone to live underground in twilight, affecting their eyesight prior to elevation. Maybe we gender-swap the roles on this world, leading to an interesting dichotomy - men are not the ones that traditionally seek glory, so how does the chapter select from the male population?

 

What about the knights? Perhaps they are the only individuals on the planet, being rich nobility, with access (however limited it could be) to combustion engines, so therefore they ride motorcycles and wield crude chainswords. Or maybe the try to emulate the 'sky knights' and wear armour akin in style to astartes armour and wield large calibre rifles.. 

 

The possibilities, to coin a phrase, are endless. Try the paths not often walked. ;) 

[Brother Augustine]

The medieval hive world idea sounds kind of awesome. Really ringing with me. Probably cut off from AdMech support a long time ago and suffered a technological regression, leading to the hives being largely cut off from one another and becoming insular city states. However, with building supplies and food being scarce, they have to venture out into the wilderness to find new resources, there encountering dangerous animals, renegades, and armies from other cities looking for the same things. So the warriors of these cities (perhaps descendants of Arbites or PDF forces) are now not only responsible for enforcing law and order within the hives, but also for acquiring the resources the people need to survive. This would lead to a sort of hero worship of these individuals by the populace, resulting over time in them becoming the new aristocracy. However, their position is tenuous and dependent on their ability to provide for their subjects and so they have to strive for ever greater skill and ability in battle so they are not bested by the city's enemies. All the while, the Marines watch from a mountain stronghold, letting the conflict continue (maybe even engineering it at times) so that only the greatest warriors are recruited.

 

Thanks A lot!

[Erasus]

Hello!

Just wanted to unload a few ideas after reading everything, I know you've already started building something in your head but I hope you don't mind me dropping a couple ideas even if they aren't used

Firstly, I really liked Olis' idea of a medieval hive world.

When I heard it I must admit I think I've seen a different route to you guys as I've envisioned huge termite-mound-type things filled with people trying to survive a planet hostile towards them. So, imagine that on this planet is either a predator so large that people must hide in these protective mountain holds like insects while bands of men go out and must fight as a cohesive unit to slay a monster far outclassing them individually (what do you mean it's like Attack on Titan? )​, linking to the Chapter's 'no glory' ethos. Or maybe the planet is infested with a swarm type xenos, like the Chrome from the new The Beast Arises series or the Megarachnids from planet Murder and again the warriors must band together to take on a numerically superior foe.

Also a thought on ethos change; maybe after the disaster the Chapter loosens protocol on recruitment, sidelining some of the hypo-indoctrination in favour of a quicker turnaround as they needed to rebuild numbers, unlike many other Chapters they chose speed over purity. However this meant more and more of the 'no glory' mentality of the death worlders seeped into Chapter ethos, phasing out the glory-seeking predecessors of old. The Chaplain you mentioned might see this and initially encourage it to shed the kind of behaviour that nearly ended the Chapter before.

I wouldn't say it was do with shell-shock as Astartes are immune to such things, modern ones anyway, it comes under the 'They Shall Know No Fear' characteristic they're famous for.

As for the disaster, whatever is responsible will likely become the nemesis of the Chapter for the rest of it's existence. The Crimson Fists hate orks, Ultramarines hate tyranids, so on so on. It is usually these two factions bringing canon Chapters low, orks making them stumble for a while, tyranids for good; at least a dozen have lost homeworlds to tyranids, sometimes more than once like the Steel Confessors, some Chapters never being heard of again like the Storm Falcons. The Angels Revenant were brought down by a Necron Dynasty awakening beneath the Fortress-Monastery. Chaos undoubtedly plays its part, Ebon Knights slain to until the last survivor went Khornate, one Chapter whose name I forget was corrupted by an unknown shadow thing in the depths of the Hive world they ruled. sometimes its the Chapter's choice like the Astral Knights assaulting the mightiest necron war-machine ever known, or the Invaders decimating themselves to destroy a Craftworld, which they were later punished for by other eldar. Those are just official disasters, for ways your Chapter can be broken but not destroyed you have a lot of options. The Tau being the only real exception. I think the reason for this is that they can be fought properly; unlike tyranids where whole sectors are evacuated or destroyed and Chapters must either flee or die, with the tau its always been the tau invade a sector then the imperium counter-invade. Its more evenly balanced, hence why we haven't really heard of a Chapter being annihilated by the greater good yet. Now they have all sorts of super weapons so its feasible but you said it was an early disaster so the tau and tyranids would be well out of there, having only come into contact after the last founding.

I think for the reason that the task force is led by someone vainglorious, a deceitful enemy would be more appropriate. The eldar come to mind. Maybe the Chapter was waging a vicious campaign to bring a maiden world or ancient eldar world into the fold, the eldar fought back but were losing ground rapidly. As his confidence grew, the Chapter Master became more audacious, taking risks almost for the sake of them. The Master of Sanctity who proves so influential later on is opposed to this self-aggrandising approach, claiming the war was for the Emperor not the Chapter Master. The eldar grow desperate and lay a trap. Ignoring calls that the Codex demands caution in this situation, the Chapter Master leads his warriors into the fray recklessly. An ancient superweapon long dormant is awakened by the eldar and obliterates the headstrong Chapter Master and most of the veterans he leads. The Chapter is left reeling, forced to pull back as the weapon begins to tear the world apart in a mass of unleashed energies, the eldar having left the mon-keigh to their fate. After this the Master of Sanctity is more dominant and assertive in his declarations that all actions of the Chapter must serve the Emperor not themselves.

Well that's my thoughts. If you like them, I liked writing them. If they're not for you, its your Chapter and I'm sure they'll be great

​

Have you got a name for them yet?

[Erasus]

Also, in the disaster the Master of Sanctity might've had a hunch he should begin evacuating the Chapter even before the weapon went off, which he later believes was the intervention of the Emperor, hence the increase in faith and fervour.

[Brother Augustine]

Thanks for your input. No, I don't have a name for them yet, and when I talked about them being shell-shocked, I was more referring to a sense of confusion and loss as to why something would happen as opposed to things like PTSD. My Idea was that their fundamental beliefs would be so shaken by the disaster that it would make it relatively easier to mold their minds in a new direction, something that Chaos takes advantage of with disillusioned Astartes all the time. 

 

I'm not sure if it counts as deceitful per se, but I was thinking that the Chapter's undoing would be a "more than it seems" kind of situation, so I agree with you there.

 

Thanks again!

[Doctor Perils]

I think you need to put a new spin on the idea itself. Just swapping out one thing for something else, something completely incongruous, could make for a very interesting alternative.

At the moment, the idea is a medieval death world with knights. Not exactly ground breaking but it's not a bad idea. Let's push the boat out a bit. What about a medieval hive world? Sounds pretty odd, right? Odd is interesting. Odd begs questions. Odd conjurs up mental imagery and is characterful. It has to be used sparingly, though. Don't rely on it like a crutch. But putting something odd amongst the mundane makes things much more interesting in the end.

You'd still have knights and horses and peasants but what else does such a world have? Gangs. On a medieval worlds that translates into brigands, footpads and cutpurses, the sort of scum that provides ample opportunity for conflict outside of war and the like. What about the 'hives' themselves? Do we build grand conurbations with stone? If so, how do we keep these monstrosities from collapsing in on themselves? AdMech help? Aid from off world? Could the hives be relics from an earlier age?

Let's move on. Maybe we keep the whole medieval death world idea, but throw in something else. Like it being an abhuman world and it's filled with albinos. Or the death world element has forced everyone to live underground in twilight, affecting their eyesight prior to elevation. Maybe we gender-swap the roles on this world, leading to an interesting dichotomy - men are not the ones that traditionally seek glory, so how does the chapter select from the male population?

What about the knights? Perhaps they are the only individuals on the planet, being rich nobility, with access (however limited it could be) to combustion engines, so therefore they ride motorcycles and wield crude chainswords. Or maybe the try to emulate the 'sky knights' and wear armour akin in style to astartes armour and wield large calibre rifles..

The possibilities, to coin a phrase, are endless. Try the paths not often walked.

These ideas are pretty great, I've just saved them in a textfile for further reference

The medieval hive world idea sounds kind of awesome. Really ringing with me. Probably cut off from AdMech support a long time ago and suffered a technological regression, leading to the hives being largely cut off from one another and becoming insular city states. However, with building supplies and food being scarce, they have to venture out into the wilderness to find new resources, there encountering dangerous animals, renegades, and armies from other cities looking for the same things. So the warriors of these cities (perhaps descendants of Arbites or PDF forces) are now not only responsible for enforcing law and order within the hives, but also for acquiring the resources the people need to survive. This would lead to a sort of hero worship of these individuals by the populace, resulting over time in them becoming the new aristocracy. However, their position is tenuous and dependent on their ability to provide for their subjects and so they have to strive for ever greater skill and ability in battle so they are not bested by the city's enemies. All the while, the Marines watch from a mountain stronghold, letting the conflict continue (maybe even engineering it at times) so that only the greatest warriors are recruited.

Thanks A lot!

Cool !

[Brother Augustine]

Sorry for the delay; work's been pretty busy the last few days, which has made it hard to find time to gather my thoughts and put them down some where. I am still brainstorming ideas for the homeworld, but I am definitely sticking with the technologically regressed hive world. Too much fun not to. Thanks again, Olis!

 

I kind of want to talk about the chapter's early days, leading up to the disaster, and why they would end up in that kind of situation, as well as exploring the mindsets and motivations that led to the change in the Chapter's ideology. After re-reading some of the earlier posts I am thinking of either using the genestealer cult concept presented by Camillo or an Enslaver incursion for the disaster, both having similar results and traits. I am also exploring Erasus's suggestion of dissenting brothers before/during the disaster becoming prominent minds after the fact (Currently a Sergeant and a Chaplain). Thanks again to both of you, I really appreciate the help I have been getting here.

 

Also, Still no name yet.

 

So I was thinking (I just realized how often I write that) of using the 14th founding, partially because I like the mystery that surrounds that whole period, with the Chapter having been formed primarily to bolster the Astartes presence in a fringe area of Imperial Space after the debacle of the Dark Founding.They latched onto the idea of being a reinforcement of Imperial rule and focused on speedy recruitment and training of new marines, taking up a fleet-based crusading methodology. Initially the Chapter's numbers were too small to operate on their own, and so they attached themselves as support elements to other battle groups (Astartes and otherwise) while they increased their numbers. Rather than rule via Chapter Master, the founders adopted a "Council of Captains" to make decisions for the Chapter, effectively resulting in mostly autonomous captains answerable only to one another. Each Captain was given authority over recruitment and training of neophytes, and over time each company developed its own cadre of elite veterans, becoming more like miniature chapters than companies, each modeled after the mindset and preferences of their respective commanding officers.

 

After some time (thinking a couple of centuries, but I am not really sure yet), the Council decided that the Chapter was at full fighting strength and that it was time they began making a name for themselves instead of fighting in the shadows of others. So for the first time since their inception, the Chapter was gathered in its entirety to make war on the enemies of the Emperor. For their first true campaign, the Council chose to deal with a Xenos incursion on the hive world of Talgier IV. The planet was in uproar, tithes and trade had ceased, and all attempts to restore Imperial Order had been met with extreme lethality, apparently by the populace itself. Officially, the planet was declared in open rebellion, but evidence indicated some outside influence that was manipulating events. The Chapter would bring this world back into the fold, claim glory and honor, and cement their name in the annals of Imperial history. They deployed en masse to Talgier IV, and launched a full scale planetary invasion. 

 

Here is where everything went wrong. The hubris and vainglory of the Chapter's leadership led to an invasion without proper intelligence. They believed that the planet was simply in rebellion, and the rumors of alien influence were a way for the Imperial officials to save face in the light of their failure to subdue the population. There had been no credible sightings of xenos, and Talgier was a frontier system that had been largely ignored by the bureaucracy for some time. The Chapter would deliver the Emperor's wrath on the world and bring it into line, quickly and brutally. The next factor in their fall was a disparity in tactics used by the companies. Each had operated individually as support units for differing factions for centuries, resulting in differing tactics and specialties that did not properly support one another. In addition, the brothers lacked the bonds of unity and fraternity that typically exist between companies, and they did not trust and cooperate as they should have. When the alien overlords revealed themselves, it was only after the marines were separated and off guard, overstretched whilst seeking their glorious victory. Very soon, they were overrun; cut off, outnumbered, and ripe for the slaughter.

 

That is all I have for now. This has already ended up way longer than I originally intended but that's how writing works, right? I'll try to get more up later this week, but for now I would really appreciate your feedback on this bit. Thanks all!

[Erasus]

Enslavers are a tough one, I'd look into the Storm Wardens for this and see how it affected them. They're the kind of scourge that will affect most things the same way. Also need to remember they nearly wiped out the galaxy, causing the deaths of the Old Ones and many of the older races.

Gene stealer concept would be easier to implement and more secretive, allowing that whole ambush scenario you're looking for.

 

Why do they decide to have a Council rather than a Chapter Master?

Where did this influence come from? Is it a result of the organisation or was the organisation a result of it? What will happen if a Captain refuses to do something the others agree on? A Chapter Master is there to ensure the Chapter acts with one will, rather than opposing ones. Not knocking the idea, many DIY factions do the same, just make sure there's a valid reason for them to this whether it's circumstance, happenstance or due to ethos.

 

The rest of the organisation sounds very Black Templar

Are your Chapter sons of Dorn? or is this coincidence? Why have this organisation rather than Codex? There are many other crusading Chapters that do not have this setup, such as the Imperial Fists and the far-ranging, rarely together Novamarines. How are the size limits adhered to, if they are followed at all?

 

According to what info is available new Chapters are let loose with 1,000 line marine, why did this not happen for your Chapter? early disaster or released early based on local need for aid?

[Brother Augustine]

Enslavers are a tough one, I'd look into the Storm Wardens for this and see how it affected them. They're the kind of scourge that will affect most things the same way. Also need to remember they nearly wiped out the galaxy, causing the deaths of the Old Ones and many of the older races.

Gene stealer concept would be easier to implement and more secretive, allowing that whole ambush scenario you're looking for.

Ok, I will definitely take that into account. 

 

 

According to what info is available new Chapters are let loose with 1,000 line marine, why did this not happen for your Chapter? early disaster or released early based on local need for aid?

I was under the impression that there was a core command cadre (usually taken from a parent chapter) that had to build the chapter from the ground up, recruiting/training over time until they reached a full complement of battle brothers. If I am mistaken, I will have to re-work their beginnings, at which point I will probably go with the latter of the two options you presented.

 

Why do they decide to have a Council rather than a Chapter Master?

Where did this influence come from? Is it a result of the organisation or was the organisation a result of it? What will happen if a Captain refuses to do something the others agree on? A Chapter Master is there to ensure the Chapter acts with one will, rather than opposing ones. Not knocking the idea, many DIY factions do the same, just make sure there's a valid reason for them to this whether it's circumstance, happenstance or due to ethos.

 

The decision to use a council was originally going to be temporary, a stop gap while the Chapter built up its strength while spread out from one another. Its kind of a Chicken-Egg situation where the organizational structure led to the council leadership style, but the leadership style colored the way the companies developed. However, as more and more new brothers were brought in and differing ideologies sprang up throughout the companies, in part due to the factions that they were working alongside over time, the Council's position was more solidified as the Captains' companies had grown into cults of personality loyal to their respective officers and certain that their image of the Chapter was the right one. This system does not survive the disaster, being seen as a major contributing factor to the chapter's fall.

Oh, as for what would happen to a Captain who refused a decision by the remainder of the council, he would basically be strong-armed into complying by the others. I was actually planning on adding a segment leading up to the campaign that would illustrate this.

The rest of the organisation sounds very Black Templar

Are your Chapter sons of Dorn? or is this coincidence? Why have this organisation rather than Codex? There are many other crusading Chapters that do not have this setup, such as the Imperial Fists and the far-ranging, rarely together Novamarines. How are the size limits adhered to, if they are followed at all?

I wasn't planning on a Dornian chapter, but I haven't decided 100%. In the minds of the chapter leaders at the time, this organization grew out of necessity due to their operation methods. The size limits were loosely enforced at that time with there being slightly more that the Codex thousand rank and file brothers at the time of the Talgier Campaign.

 

Thanks a bunch! That helped me find some plot points I needed to polish for this early period in their history. I also want to stress that the Chapter becomes much more Codex adherent after the events of the Talgier campaign. I'll try to put the rest of my ideas for the Talgier campaign and the reforging of the Chapter under its new Chapter Master up later tonight.

[Brother Augustine]

Ok, after sleep and food here's the second part of my notes on the Chapter's early history

 

Before the Chapter went to war against Talgier IV, there were detractors among the brotherhood, warriors that felt the campaign needed to be more carefully prepared for. The most prominent of these was Commander Varnias Targen, a veteran sergeant and the de facto leader of the Third company in the wake of its captain's death some six months prior. The council had not yet recognized his position as captain, in part due to his highly vocal opposition of the Council's plan, which he condemned as the same kind of arrogance that had cost the life of the Third Captain and many of the company's more veteran brothers in their last operations. He even accused the captains of having lost sight of their true purpose, that they were fighting for their own egos rather than to further the Emperor's reign. Targen and his supporters were assigned to rear guard actions for the duration of Talgier's conquest as punishment for his outbursts. Had the battle gone the way the council anticipated, the population of Talgier IV would have been pacified with the detractors never having taken part in the battle. This instead became the Chapter's saving grace, for when the xenos trap was sprung, the third company was in a position to strike back, and come to their wayward brothers' aid.

 

Targen launched his company into action, his worst fears confirmed. The third butchered their way through the enslaved populace with precision born from endless drilling in codex battle doctrine by their commander. They began to turn the tide, reuniting with one fragment of the chapter after another, the Commander exhorting his brothers to keep fighting in the face of these seemingly impossible odds. Despite the scorn shown him by his brothers before the battle he refused to abandon any of them and sought bloody vengeance for those he could not save. With the battle force reunited, Targen declared that they could not risk this evil escaping the Emperor's justice, and drove his men into the belly of the hive seeking the monster behind the rebellion. Targen himself destroyed the creature, fighting through its psychic assaults and tearing it asunder, scattering its minions for his brothers to cut down. When the pacification of Talgier IV was complete, nearly 2/3rds of the chapter lay dead or wounded beyond repair, and the survivors were left with the task of rebuilding the Chapter mere centuries after their founding.

 

In the aftermath of the war, Targen took on the mantle of leadership and disbanded the Council. With the full support of the Reclusiam and a majority of the surviving battle-brothers, there was no one who could dispute his claim, and Commander Targen became Chapter Master of the ____________. He highlighted the flaws in the previous doctrine and organization of the chapter and sought to correct them. First, they would settle on a homeworld, giving them a static base of operations and a singular pool from which to draw recruits. Second, the Chapter would be reorganized to bring them into compliance with the dictates of the Codex Astartes. Recruits would be more closely monitored, inducted into the 10th company, and trained according to standard practices instead of the preferences of individual captains. The bonds of fraternity would be exemplified, and duty to the Emperor first, Chapter second, and self last would become the new mindset of the __________. 

 

Next, the Chapter's Master of Sanctity developed a system of beliefs that would become the Chapter Cult. At the center of the cult's teachings was the concept of the True Warrior, a perfect soldier and servant of the Emperor guided only by his duty. The other major tenets of the faith were the divinity of the Emperor, the necessity of conflict for mankind to evolve and become truly worthy of the Emperor's blessings, and the sacrifice of one's self for the benefit of all mankind. Eventually, this would develop into disdain for those seen as benefiting from the sacrifices of others, which leads them into conflict with Goge Vandire's Ecclesiarchy during the Age of Apostasy, an event that would forever poison their view of the Adeptus Ministorum.

 

Ok, that's what I have for now. C&C please and thank you. I'm still a bit out of practice and while I feel this is a good foundation, I don't want to build my Chapter on something completely unbelievable.

 

Also, still completely blanking on a name. Any suggestions?

[Erasus]

Yeah it's just that when a Founding takes place, the Imperium at large gets involved. With this level of investment, they aren't going to let a small cadre of veterans wander off with the supplies for a whole Chapter.

However, take it or leave it I have a suggestion for why they split; the search for a homeworld. There's conflicting statements about whether a planet is already picked out or the Chapter itself decides, with canon examples for both. It is usually decided by the Chapter however, especially after M38. So your Companies could have split to find a suitable home. Just a suggestion.

You don't have to Dornian to be a crusading Chapter, just wondered if there was a link between the Templars and this Chapter. Have you thought about who their Primarch is? Usually a great way to flesh out a Chapter's character and general behaviour, even if it's just for you and we aren't told about it.

What roles did the Reclusiam, Armoury, Librarius and Apothecarion play during the reign of the Council? Did they divide themselves among the Companies as well? Did they have a singular top rank such as Master of Sanctity and Chief Librarian or were they similarly run with councils? Were they even powers unto themselves or did they defer completely to their Captains?

When Targen accused the Captains of serving themselves and not the Emperor, how did the gathered Chaplains react? If at all?

If you stick with the 14th Founding then the Chapter will still be extremely young when the Reign of Blood occurs, Vandire was in control somewhere between 100.M36-250.M6 and considering the 13th Founding was 'early M36' your Founding may have missed it completely. There's the Plague of Unbelief in 310.M36 but that was just in the Segmentum Pacificus and again was really early. There's the execution of Saint Basilius in M38? He sent 30 Chapters on the Abyssal Crusade but was later proven a heretic when the survivors came back, could prove to the Chapter that the Ecclesiarchy is corrupt and their views on faith are actually dangerous to the Astartes as a whole?

It's quite a leap from 'we serve the Emperor' to 'we serve therefore you suck', might need a little bit more info on what occurs here, whether it's a minor tragedy, how they perceive the actions of others, like cowardly Generals and scheming Governors or they are influenced by an Inquisitor with a monodominant/istvaanism philosophy.

No luck with a name yet?

or a colour scheme? might help with the name

[Erasus]

Ha just saw the question at the bottom of your last post, um I'm thinking a name that seems aggressive, not like vicious but 'we're out there doing the Emperor's work' type thing. I'll just splurge some names that come to mind as I type this;

- . . . damn this is hard

- I think a colour scheme would help with that first word

- Knights of Apotheosis, (doesn't really roll of the tongue though does it?)

- Viridian Exemplars

(with the following scheme;)

(created with Night Rider's Chapter Generator, http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282304-chapter-generator/)

I'm stuck, hopefully you can do better, it's your Chapter so it's your choice how they should look and be called, feel free to steal these though

[Brother Augustine]

I am currently debating something like this for the paint scheme, but I do think yours is pretty sharp in its own right.

Let's see if I can't answer/come up with something for these questions. Sorry if they are out of order.

I picture the Reclusiam and Librarius being their own bodies with the heads of each perhaps having seats (maybe honorary ones?) on the council, while the Apothecarion and Armoury are integrated into the individual companies and defer to their respective captains.

I've thought about Primarchs, and I'm leaning towards either Dorn or Guilliman, by virtue of them being my favorites, but I haven't made any final decisions.

Yeah, I know that they'll be young, but I kind of wanted it that way. But that raises a point; on the timeline here on the B&C the 14th founding was listed in M35 with the RoB being almost exactly a thousand years later. If there's something wrong with that timeline should we bring that up? But if that is too out there, I do like the St. Basilius idea. Forgot about him, and that would definitely work, especially if they were one of the accused chapters.

I like that homeworld search idea, I might just take it.

And lastly I was thinking that their mindset would develop based on seeing the actions of others especially "cowardly Generals and scheming Governors" and the like. They have no problem with the general populace as most people (from an objective point of view any way) spend their lives in humble servitude to the Throne. It is those who manipulate and abuse their stations that the Chapter disdains.

Thanks again, you've been a big help!

[Erasus]

The word viridian got stuck and then that was it

If you're happy with your colour scheme, or more importantly already envision the characters as that in your head then don't feel pressured to oblige me my viridian impulsiveness.

Where do the Master of Sanctity and the Chief Librarian go when the Companies are abroad? Do they stick with a certain Company that entire time, or do they flit between them? Staying with one Company means that there's no guidance for those in other Companies while flitting between leaves them vulnerable shuttling between them.

Being your favourite is as good as any reason to pick a primarch, just keep in mind the innate characteristics they bring and any mutations on the geneseed they have, Dorn for example is missing a few organs.

The timeline, while a masterpiece I have relied on many times, hasn't been updated for two years while GW march on retconning everything. Black Library published a novel in 2008 called Red Fury by James Swallow, it listed a Chapter known as the Blood Legion being founded mid M36, in the 14th Founding. Octavulag's timeline is more logical because he's spaced it out when dates were unclear, but a canon author had already ruined it by deciding the 14th is 'there' ​ GW is terrible for timelines and locations. I swear the Crimson Fists' homeworld has danced on either side of the Tempestus/Ultima border several times . . .

I can only find 29 canon Chapters out of 30 but I don't know if that is on purpose or just a common mistake, so there is a gap. It would mean sending your Chapter into the Eye of Terror for a long time though. I was thinking more of them as bystanders who disapproved of the whole thing. Leaves their honour intact as well. I'm sure you could come up with a dozen other slights if need be

​

Yeah take it, that's why I put it there

I get the ethos now. If you want us to get it through an IA or some other entry we'd need an example of this happening, just to further validate their mindset in ours.

No worries, I like helping on this stuff. It's what the forum is for isn't it ​Right! Well, I think this is coming along really nicely, things are starting to come together and get some meat on their bones. If you put up any other ideas I'll be here to try and help. Just need a name ​

[Brother Augustine]

Hmm, I hadn't thought about that. Perhaps rather than a single head member, the most senior Librarians/Chaplains elect a representative for Council meetings? I'll need to work more on that.

 

I'll probably stick with the bystanders route, rather than stealing a name off the list. Give them a sort of "Who do these Ecclesiarchy sods think they are?!" attitude in the wake of Basilius damning those 30 chapters, and when it turned out he was a fraud they not only joined in the vengeful crusade but they never forgave the church for it happening in the first place. Especially because by that point they would have had time to develop a lot of that disdain discussed earlier.

 

On another note, I think that the search for a homeworld taking a long time would best be explained by the captains having differing views on recruitment, and what type of people would make good marines. But when Targen took over, he found a suitable nearby world and decided that they would settle there, ending the issue once and for all.