What GW knights do people find work best?

[Yoyo ninja]

I own a single knight that I brought as an ally for my Space Wolves and after painting him and coming up with some fluff I really like the idea of owning a few more to make a house. The basic fluff for my existing knight is that he is the last remaining knight of his house after an Ork Waaagh! landed on his home world. He was the last remaining knight by the time the wolves answered the call for aid. He was granted the title of Honoured Brother for his valiant defence to the last and now fights alongside the Wolves.

 

My idea is that a group of free blades, who are the last remaining knights from their original Houses, sought eachother out because of the need to be with other Knights and formed a loose House of their own. They are free to leave to honour other oaths they have sworn but will come together to fight as one when needed.

 

My question though is before I go building Knights at random, what do people find works well? I'm looking at GW plastic Knights for now, mainly because of budget. My existing knight is magnetised and can be either a Knight Paladin or Errant. i was thinking crusader knight next possibly?

 

Thanks for any advice.

[mmimzie]

Don't mind me modding up your fluff alittle, but the space wolves have those lone wolf dudes. Would be really cool if he was sort of the lone wolf for his world or something. Then you could have him maybe rock a few extra coats of arms to represent his fallen comrades, and maybe a space wolves banner to show his new alignence. 

 

On top of that you could then have the other night sort of follow suit each have thier own sets of heraldry from what they lost in thier worlds. On top of that each having thier own battle damage would be amazing. Maybe tons of scratches and chinks in the leg and feet armor. Showing the orc trying to fell the knight like a tree. 

 

Going off Immersturm's guide He states paladin is a really nice catch all that is paired well with the the small vehicle and monster popping warden. I personally am a knight errant fan as melee is my jam, but he's proably not the best. 

 

If i had to pick 3 i'd take Warden, Paladin, and gallant. 

[Lucien Eilam]

Of the plastic Knights:

 

The Paladin closely followed by the Warden are the best all-rounders. The Warden has an edge against vehicle squadrons and multi-wound models, so if you face a lot of those, he might be the better choice.

 

The Crusader's lack of a D weapon means he really benefits from being paired with a strong melee army that can keep threats off him in assault.

 

Personally, I find an Errant essential in a pure Knight army, but rarely the best choice for a lone ally. One large blast just isn't enough damage output for the investment.

 

I've never used a Gallant, doesn't appeal to me at all. Gun the size of a tank or leave.

[jeffersonian000]

Three Gallants at 1000pts are pretty fun. <evil laugh>

 

SJ

[Yoyo ninja]

So I'm getting a sense that Knights are dependant on your play style. Being a Wolves player I tend to be very aggressive, my army revolves around close combat. I like the idea of a paladin or two forming a fire base with errants and wardens moving up to press the attack.

 

What are people's opinions of the Thunderstrike Gauntlet? It seems like it could produce some funny moments of squashing things with thrown tanks ect. but it seems that the reaper chainsword would be better as it strikes at I and has the same stat line.

[jeffersonian000]

The Thunderstrike Gauntlet should be a free upgrade, not something you pay for, as striking at Init1 sucks. However, it can garantee you get to Stomp, and may even let you throw a tank or 'fex.

 

SJ

Edited December 3, 2015 by jeffersonian000

[Yoyo ninja]

Yea, init1 sucks, but I play against Eldar a lot so I'm usually striking last anyway. Stupid wraithknights with their init5!

[CommodusXIII]

I tend to stick with the chainsword, but I've played a few matches against mechanized armies that benefitted immensely from liberal application of gauntlets. There have been very few instances where initiative order has mattered with my Knights, while chucking transports can be both fun and effective. If it weren't for the matter of points I'd take them more often and in greater numbers. I just usually have better things to invest into. Edited December 4, 2015 by CommodusXIII

[Frater Cornelius]

I tend to keep IK cheap as possible due to the rampant ranged D and liberal application of massed Pods with Grav and Melta around here. Which basically means one of the 375 variants without upgrades. I do not find the Errant all that great with one blast. My favourite is the Paladin, because our Jetbike players usually try to stay at 36" covered by their WK and jump back and forth. The 72" gun does not care ;)

[Lord Blackwood]

Its funny cause with a battle line of Knights I have rarely had problems with grav  spam , usually they will chip  a hull point or two at most. Ive never found grav super threatening to knights as the things that rely on it usually get smoked the game turn  they get into range. Melta spam and str D shooting is considerably more frightening and just as common honestly. Even lists with high grav redundancy arent terrible to deal with atleast int he experiences ive had fielding knights. 

I  certainly feel the Errant is a 0 ~1  most of the time unless yer doing something strange with points , its single shot is okay but paladins and Wardens do more fer you  over the course of a game than an errant. 

Though thats not to say the Errant is bad its just only really good when youve got stuff you know it will be able to target 
even so you really are at the mercy of one scatter  and then you have to deal with invul or cover saves from the unit yer trying to burn  its just a mess. 

[Yoyo ninja]

So ideally I am looking at another paladin and a warden to join my existing knight. I can see the missile pods being a bit redundant unless you have the points spare but the autocannons seem like it could be worth it for some anti air/skimmer (I play against Eldar/dark Eldar a lot).

[CommodusXIII]

I have some missile pods/autocannona painted, but like Immersturm I tend to run my Knights basic. Only Paladins and Errants for me. I take them in a roughly 2:1 ratio. The Paladin is my favorite pattern, but at higher point thresholds an Errant or two becomes necessary to deal with TEQs/AV14 in my meta.

 

Like Bladewolf, I haven't had serious issues facing grav spam. It can get annoying, but rarely any worse than that. Ranged D hasn't yet diffused into my meta - though, I'm encouraging opponents to dig out that Shadowsword, etc. that they've been too considerate to use. Knights can open up a lot of opportunities that you might not see in other matches.

Edited December 5, 2015 by CommodusXIII

[The Unseen]

IMO, for the errant to be worth its points, it should probably have ignores cover. The only time 2 battlecannon shots aren't superior is against 2+ saves, and we know how often those units hit the table these days. (Not Often, with grav running everywhere)

[CommodusXIII]

Again, choice in Knight is meta-dependent. I do see a lot of 2+ armor saves and AV14, so the Errant comes in handy. If you don't, it might not.

[Yoyo ninja]

Again, choice in Knight is meta-dependent. I do see a lot of 2+ armor saves and AV14, so the Errant comes in handy. If you don't, it might not.

This is my thought with the autocannons. I see a lot of flyers and skimmers so these would be useful. I suppose our meta will always change our force slightly.

 

Edit = grammar correction

Edited December 5, 2015 by Yoyo ninja

[CommodusXIII]

Exactly!

[old git]

I've built a crusader with all the toys (gatling/battle cannon, missile pod) and use it with my marines to provide most of my heavy firepower. This frees up points to fit in the marine heavy hitters, such as the stormwing.

[Yoyo ninja]

I was contemplating a crusader then I could take it as an ally for my wolves aswell.

 

I played a small game against Dark Eldar today using a Paladin and 3units of sternguard. He conceded at the end of turn 4. I felt a bit mean.

[Terminus]

Paladin > Crusader (in multi-knight lists only) > Errant

Edited January 28, 2016 by Brother Tyler
excessive > signs removed (causing formatting problems)

[jeffersonian000]

I run an Errant with GK at 1850 and up, and it never let's me down. The Thermal Cannon is perfect, bringing the AP1 my list normally lacks, while the range fits in with my need to close for CC. If I had to go with a different Knight, it would be the Warden, for 12 S6 AP3 Rending shots at the same range bracket.

 

SJ

[Prot]

I've given up on the Errant.

 

Full Crusader with my GK: the GK do the hand to hand dirty work, the Crusader is going full Missile pods, Gatling, Battle Cannon to make up for the difference.

 

My Ultramarines are using a cheap Paladin for any heavy lifting.

 

The thing that's changed is the Knight feels out classed a bit more with Stormsurges and as always the Wraithknight, so I have pulled back to usually include the cheapst Paladin I can. (Used to be Errant but too much cover in my meta).

 

I find the important piece is truly the D-sword. It's all about getting face time with the Wraithknights/Stormsurges, etc.

[jeffersonian000]

I've given up on the Errant.

 

Full Crusader with my GK: the GK do the hand to hand dirty work, the Crusader is going full Missile pods, Gatling, Battle Cannon to make up for the difference.

 

My Ultramarines are using a cheap Paladin for any heavy lifting.

 

The thing that's changed is the Knight feels out classed a bit more with Stormsurges and as always the Wraithknight, so I have pulled back to usually include the cheapst Paladin I can. (Used to be Errant but too much cover in my meta).

 

I find the important piece is truly the D-sword. It's all about getting face time with the Wraithknights/Stormsurges, etc.

Sounds like you need a Warden, not a Paladin. :P

 

SJ

[Lord Blackwood]

The recent games against Eldar have proven that the  Lancer is definately my favorite knight  would like to get my hands on the new variant though but thats an expense that is unjustifiable for a lot of us. Though this thread is about Gw Knights 

If we were just hard ranking GW Knight Weapons the top  three in my opinion  

1. Reaper chainsword  
2. Rapid Fire Battle Cannon  / Avenger Gatling Cannon 
3. Icarus ( I  rate this extremely high in all knight lists so maybe this is a bias  ) 
4. Thermal Cannon 
5. Missle Pods  ( neither are really anything to write home about but on a gallant they can be nice if you have the points ) 
6. Melta Gun 
7. Thunderstrike Gauntlet
8. Heavy Stubber
 

[Yoyo ninja]

Yea, I think I will struggle to justify two more regular price Knights to the Mrs, so if I start buying the good forge world ones I think I may get in trouble!haha.

 

I think I have decided, I will get another paladin and a warden as they seem to be the most useful. Keep my current one with magnetised weapons so I can take an errant if it has any tactical advantage.

[Terminus]

I'm just going to repost what I wrote in the last thread on the subject.  This was in response to someone claiming the thermal cannon of the Errant "synergizes with assault range of the Knight, unlike the RFBC which encourages hanging back".

 

I'm sorry, a long range of the weapon doesn't specify you must maintain that range. That's complete nonsense, we're not talking about conversion beamers or minimum range artillery. But the opposite is true for the Errant, its shorter range weapons FORCE you to close in (you have to be within 18" before you get the melta rule). And once you're close, Knights are actually not that tough, with opponents being able to get angles around the ion shields or just ignoring them by punching it in the face. Plus, even with AP1, chances are very good that single shot you put on the vehicle will cause a hull point and maybe a weapon destroyed. Interestingly enough, a Paladin with a meltagun stands a better chance of glancing a typical vehicle to death (three shots from melta and main gun) than the Errant with a meltagun does blowing it up (two shots from melta and main gun).Then the Paladin still has another weapon so it can attack someone else.

 

In fact, that second stubber actually makes the Paladin way better at assault. A Paladin could put a melta and a skyspear rocket launcher into a vehicle (5 S8 shots), then lob two battle cannon shells clear across the battle field at some troops, then target a third unit with the stubber and charge and stomp them to death. In a similar situation, the Errant will throw the same five shots at the vehicle, and then it has to decide whether to lob just the one shot half the way down the battle field (and thus give up assault for that turn), or fire at the charge target (potentially killing the guys who were in range).

 

Out of the GW Questoris suits, the Paladin stands above the rest. Warden is also excellent, because sometimes you want to roll dice and not depend on blast, especially if we're talking Baronial Court (overwatch), or Mechanicus Convocation (all sorts of ballistic skill buffs). The Crusader is an odd bird, because I'd never consider it outside of an all Knights list. There are just very few situations where I'd give up a D melee weapon for another ranged weapon and pay 50 points for the privilege. Knight lists are an exception, because then I already have a 2-3 Destroyer weapons out there for them to worry about and I more than likely have a good chunk of spare points I can't use on another Knight.

 

I'll actually put the Gallant above the Errant, because if I'm going to barrel a suicide knight into their army (because that was the typical fate of my Errant as I desperately tried to get close to get good mileage out of that thermal cannon), I rather save 50 points and maybe get to watch the fist do something funny. The Thermal Cannon would have made me swoon in 5th edition, but it's just not exciting enough in 7th. It would have had a niche if it was S10 (so it can insta-kill T5), or if instead of melta it had straight armourbane.

 

Out of the 30K Questoris suits, the Styrix is quite expensive, but has blessed autosimulacra, flare shields, and two very interesting guns. The hekaton siege claw is an interesting choice; likely neither the wrecker nor the flamer rules will ever actually come up in the game, but it does give you a third gun to aim at your assault target with very little chance of putting you out of range. The Magaera sucks because it has categorically the absolute worst main weapon of any Knight, and a plasma-fusil secondary isn't exactly making my nipples hard.

 

TL/DR Questoris Ranks

Awesome: Paladin, Warden, Styrix

Situational: Gallant, Crusader

Soggy Turds: Errant, Magaera

 

 

Then someone countered about how awesome the Errant is against a TEQ/AV14 meta (which apparently does NOT mean terminators or land raiders, so make of that what you will).  My response assumed terminators and AV14:

 

You say the Errant is better at dealing with AV14. If your meta is full of parking lots where a single template is managing to overlap several Land Raider hulls, then bully for you, but I imagine that is a very atypical meta. Also, if we are talking about long range (anything greater than 18"), the Paladin is actually a bit better at stripping hull points off of Land Raiders. The S9 shot from the Errant will glance/pen on 5+ (0.33 per shot). Each of the Paladin's S8 ordnance shots has two chances to roll a 6 to glance (so again 0.33 per shot, except you get two shots). Against anything lighter like Predator Squadrons, especially when you are tagging multiple hulls with each shot, the Paladin's damage output straight up runs away from the Errant. Up close, stomps pen on 2+ and D weapons make a mockery of any armour. In a cross 30K/40K setting, the AV14 things may sport armoured ceramite, making the melta even less valuable. Although granted, at <18" you have a ~72% chance to penetrate that land raider, and then you could roll that 5 to blow it up (about 24% of the time before cover). Any result less, and you are being charged by the contents of that Land Raider on the next turn. Hell, even with an explode result and being at 17.99" is not 100% guaranteed safety if they roll boxcars for charge distance.

 

As for the Terminators, if they are the thunderhammer/stormshield variety, weight of fire from Paladin/Warden deals with them better. If we're talking stormbolter/powerfist terminators (really atypical meta), then the Errant will indeed perform better, but in that setting I would be seriously eyeballing the Lancer.

 

So yes, I will concede the point, it is indeed meta-specific. If your particular meta does not allow 30K units, and consists entirely of standard Terminator squads in Land Raiders, the Errant will serve you better. In every other situation, you're better off with anything else.