ThtsTheJoke Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I have been thinking for a while about my big grand sweeping theory that i think makes most things about the heresy make sense. So basically my theory is that Space Lenin/Jesus is actually Malal (a chaos God with the sole intent of destroying the others) from rogue trader 40k. He exists for the sole purpose of the destruction of the chaos powers and is not necessarily good. He forms during the Warhammer Fantasy time period; at a time when the chaos gods are just forming, and so that when they form; he is born with them too. He bides his time, and when humanity is reaching its darkest days during the age of strife, and thus when the gods are strongest, he realises he has to do something. the chaos powers are becoming stronger and he too becomes stronger with them. So he takes control during that time period and leads with his right; an "imperial truth" that greatly diminished the power of the gods in all the places he took power. He conquers the stars and weakens the powers of the gods. I understand I am leaving a lot unsaid; like the formation of the primarchs and lots and lots of history. Now, flash forward to vulkan: you know how he and the emperor are perpetual, meaning they are basically immortal (and if he dies, unlike vulkan, he is reincarnated) well I'm gonna come back to this So forward to the end of the crusade; he has to keep chaos slightly alive so he is not completely drained of his power so he ends the crusade early. Then the chaos powers corrupt Horus and the heresy breaks out. So fast forward to the end of the heresy and someone on caliban unearths a piece of evidence the suggest that emps is Malal, or at least a god. They feel betrayed, and thus they turn against him. This is the fallen angels. They find a way to get this info to Malcador the sigilite. I'll come back to this later too. So Horus and the emperor slug it out. Emps/Malal does not want to kill Horus, who is imbued with all the powers of the gods, because he will be diminished in power with Horus. But finally he gives up and backhands Horus out of existence. But he is weakened by this, and has to be healed. Malcador the sigilite, who knows what the big E is, knows that if he is killed he will simply reincarnate; and so he sacrifices himself to put him on the golden throne where he will be kept in between death and life; not able to act in reality, and not able of be reincarnated. So in the 41st millennium, the fallen angel cypher hates what has happened to the now authoritarian imperium. Knowing all of this from being on caliban with Luther, he decides a imperium with the emperor who may be a chaos God is better than today. So he is making a path towards terra to set space Lenin free from his prison and renew the fight against chaos. *takes bow* So what do you think of my theory guys? How would you guys improve it? Anything I'm missing? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@verik115 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Filthy heresy and Dark Angels in the same post again... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/#findComment-4245442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasteredFury Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 If I read this again, my tin foil budget for next year will be completely shot.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/#findComment-4245450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphariusOmegon108 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 That is actually a pretty nice plot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/#findComment-4245453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Heresy :-P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/#findComment-4245460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Mk.231 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Emperor = Space LeninThat is probably the most heretical part of this post. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/#findComment-4245548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionary Pallas Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 You know this actually sounds plausible, except for one thing. Why would Malcador want to stop Big-E/Malal? After such a long time of being best buds, I think Malcador would give the Emperor the benefit of the doubt, even if he was Malal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/#findComment-4245549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 You know this actually sounds plausible, except for one thing. Why would Malcador want to stop Big-E/Malal? After such a long time of being best buds, I think Malcador would give the Emperor the benefit of the doubt, even if he was Malal. Actually the bigger problem is that Warhammer Fantasy is a separate universe. And one that was completely destroyed at that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/#findComment-4245581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThtsTheJoke Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 That's because the only survivors are sigmar and his guys, who I have a firm belief that they escape into the realm of chaos that exist between 40k and fantasy. SIGMAR, who is constantly devoted to destroy the chaos gods, rather like Big Daddy E! Sigmar exists in parallel with the emperor because they are both one God, rather like the other gods who also exist in parallel between the two universes. That could be how the emperor was found in the material world during the age of strife with an army of high tech marines; the original thunder Warriors were sigmars Warriors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/#findComment-4245647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azkaellon3 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Biggest problem is that the emperor wasn't always a being of power. (read vengeful spirit) Before he stole/bargaind/whatsoever from the chaosgods he was just a perpetual and a powerful psyker. So probably no Malal. And as stated by Geedubs fantasy and 40k/30k are seperate universes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/#findComment-4245670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 A few issues... So basically my theory is that Space Lenin/Jesus is actually Malal (a chaos God with the sole intent of destroying the others) from rogue trader 40k. Malal was never part of the 40K canon, not even in Rogue Trader days. He was invented by two external authors for their Warhammer Fantasy RPG stories, and once those authors stopped working with GW Malal was not used any further. Malal has as much relevance to 40K as the Horned Rat, or even less so, since at least the Horned Rat is still part of the core WHFB canon. There are occasional winks to Malal in official material, thrown in by the authors. Just like there was the mercenary team from the movie 'Predator' as a kill team show piece in the 4th Edition WH40K Rulebook. That doesn't mean that 'Predator' happened canonically in the 40K universe. Another problem would be that the followers of Malal are usually loners, since they are not comfortable around other followers of Chaos, not even other followers of Malal. They do not generally form cults or warbands like the followers of the other Gods do. So the idea that there would be an "Imperium" of followers of Malal would be somewhat antithetical to his theme. Malal was also described as a proper Chaos God, which included daemons and mutations and everything else. These do not exist as part of the Imperial culture, so another reason that the Emperor being a Chaos God can be ruled out. Also, Chaos Gods exist in the warp, and have no permanent physical manifestation. It requires some substantial expenditure in energy to create a temporary physical manifestation in the form of daemons, while the Emperor has existed for about fifty thousand years. So the Emperor by definition cannot be a Chaos God. He forms during the Warhammer Fantasy time period; at a time when the chaos gods are just forming, and so that when they form; he is born with them too. The WHFB universe is not the ancient times of the WH40K universe. Main reason why that cannot be the case is the existence of Slaanesh in the WHFB universe, while Slaanesh is created in the 40K universe only ten thousand years ago. A theory was that the WHFB world exists somewhere in the 40K Imperium, but that went out the window with the recent 'Age of Sigmar' story progression. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/#findComment-4245715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Like all conspiracy theories, it the OP uses relevant information to a coherent degree. However, again much like conspiracy theories, if you look past the what the theory is trying to say and examine the plausibility of it, it quickly turns out to be bunk. Much of what I could say has already been touched upon by Legatus, so I won't repeat what he said. Now, if the Emperor was in fact Malal in disguise (and assuming he could keep his corporeal form indefinitely, somehow), why would he choose to deny his alleged divinity and thus deny himself of potential worshippers? Warp beings, as we know them, devour souls. The gods of the warp are no different. Which begs the question of why he would intentionally starve himself? It would make him weaker, which is probably not for the best if he is squaring up against the four ruinous powers. Trying to starve them and himself at the same time seems quite counter intuitive. If he truly was what this theory states, then surely the clever thing for him to do would be to endorse the Lectition Divinatus, back the Word Bearers and Logar, and insist the Mechanicum worship him rather than let them think of him as an aspect of the Omnissiah? This would leech power away from the chaos gods and funnel it towards him. As an aside on the Mechanicum - he tolerated the religious elements of the Mechanicum, granted, but why (if he is Malal) did he not take advantage of their dogma for his own ends more than he already did? They were his armourers, weaponsmiths, ship builders and much more. The opportunity to double down on this ready resource of worshippers was right there and yet he merely tolerates them. Then, of course, is the lore about how the Primarchs came about. If we are to believe the ruinous powers' side of the story, then why the hell would they help another chaos god get more powerful in a reality where they themselves wish better access to? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/#findComment-4245796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Filthy heresy and Dark Angels in the same post again... Give it a break dude. Seriously. It's getting really boring - you pop out almost every time DA are mentioned and write stuff like this. You don't like Dark Angels fluff, that's ok, you have every right to do so (just like anyone who doesn't like x - related stuff) but you don't have to voice it everytime "Dark Angels" name appears on the thread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/#findComment-4245818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Emperor = Space Lenin That is probably the most heretical part of this post. Well, he gets space Stalin (Russ), to axe space Trotsky (Magnus)! :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/#findComment-4245859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@verik115 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Filthy heresy and Dark Angels in the same post again... Give it a break dude. Seriously. It's getting really boring - you pop out almost every time DA are mentioned and write stuff like this. You don't like Dark Angels fluff, that's ok, you have every right to do so (just like anyone who doesn't like x - related stuff) but you don't have to voice it everytime "Dark Angels" name appears on the thread. Haha come on man. Its just friendly banter :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/#findComment-4245864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Malal is the inherent nature of chaos to destroy itself, even at it's own expense. That would mean the Emperor, if he planned it all, would not stop, and just annihilate Horus from the outset. The fact that Malal, would hesitate to destroy chaos, is the biggest hole in your theory, in my opinion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/#findComment-4245891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThtsTheJoke Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 The emperor would not want to destroy his powers completely. Now that Horus has the powers of all of the gods, he would not want to completely Destroy Horus, and therefore himself. Also, I'm not saying that Malal is canon, but it can be made into canon easily. It's just a stupid tin-foil hat theory for fun. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/#findComment-4245982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob P Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I'm not a big fan of the concept of Malal, but the theory is a fun idea. How does it fit in with the Emperor visiting Molech? Personally, I prefer the idea that The Emperor is some sort of genius-dumbass that actually believes the Imperial Truth and that the 'God-Emperor' is merely a warp reflection generated from the worship/belief in the God Emperor (in other words, the physical Emperor and the warp-based god Emperor are different things). For another post on another day, but I also like the idea that Malcador is Merlin and The Emperor is King Arthur (or a take on it). Basically Malcador pulls all the strings and knows what is actually going on, but The Emperor is super in his own right, just not as switched on. Also supports the idea of 12 good men to rule (12 knights of the round table). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/#findComment-4246002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sororita Katya Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 What about saying AoS exists in a cut off corner of the webway? Like comorragh? It was a ship from the Great Colonisation that crash landed there when it accidentally got caught up in the webway, once inside it was attacked by daemons as it was slowly cut off gate after gate. Eventually it found itself spewed out and crash landed at the Northern pole of the planet. The native life already there saw this and begun war, with the human savages already on the planet being sought out and taught. Eventually the settlers forgot about the ship lost to history and so the standard timeline can run. Slaanesh existed here due to the inaccuracies of the warp, not actually being created yet, but as chaos gods can work anywhere along a timeline she was still being active within the great game. Then the world explodes, the pocket of cut off space explodes and Sigmar reforms a small part (with borrowed strength from the Emperor) of the warp to his will. This brings me to the second half of the theory. Fantasy was all a ploy by the emperor to create another being such as himself (Sigmar) to use as a host for himself to manifest into, thus being able to keep his dying corpse on the golden throne but now can continue to work on his webway project, Sigmars current worlds are a test of how much he can create a sanctuary within the webway, seeing the now threats of the Tyranids for what it truly is (the end of the universe) he plans to safe haven the entire imperium of man by creating a bastion within the warp to teleport the whole lot into. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/#findComment-4246062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob P Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I like the idea of the warp as the constant and the various universes as dreams of chaos gods or different reflections of the warp that pop up from time to time Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/#findComment-4246073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azkaellon3 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 How does it fit in with the Emperor visiting Molech? It doesn't, that's the problem with the theory. It doesn't fit in the new fluff created by blacklibrary. As stated in this book the emperor was just a normal human/perpetual with great psychic power and no secret deity/malal. And it's also hinted throughout the series that the emperor is a "we" which fits with the second edition Psyker mass suicide story that created the being that one day would protect mankind against chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/#findComment-4246216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 How does it fit in with the Emperor visiting Molech? It doesn't, that's the problem with the theory. It doesn't fit in the new fluff created by blacklibrary. As stated in this book the emperor was just a normal human/perpetual with great psychic power and no secret deity/malal. And it's also hinted throughout the series that the emperor is a "we" which fits with the second edition Psyker mass suicide story that created the being that one day would protect mankind against chaos. The hole in your argument is that you take the chaos side of the story as a fact. And we all know that Chaos never gives you the actual truth, just what they want you to see to create self fulfilling prophecies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/#findComment-4246273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azkaellon3 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 @ Wolf_Pack Of course chaos only show you what they want to see, but by the other perpetuals the emperor is seen as a peer and not as a superior if they remember him in the books. Also the chaos gods absolutely hate and fear the emperor at the same time, but in the old fluff malal was never really seen as a threat and they looked down on him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/#findComment-4246283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 How does it fit in with the Emperor visiting Molech?It doesn't, that's the problem with the theory. It doesn't fit in the new fluff created by blacklibrary. As stated in this book the emperor was just a normal human/perpetual with great psychic power and no secret deity/malal. And it's also hinted throughout the series that the emperor is a "we" which fits with the second edition Psyker mass suicide story that created the being that one day would protect mankind against chaos. The hole in your argument is that you take the chaos side of the story as a fact. And we all know that Chaos never gives you the actual truth, just what they want you to see to create self fulfilling prophecies.That is literally the entire background in a nutshell; an event seen through personal bias and interpretation and taken as fact. Look at John Grammiticus who thinks of the Emperor as the power-hungry warlord Chaos claims he his? And that's an observation based on his own experiences. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/#findComment-4246305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Tick tock tick tock What's that I hear!? This thread is causing unnecessary controversy. Ohh let's just leave it alone why of course not. Look honestly if that's how you'd like to view the heresy that's fine kudos for the imagination. I have kept an eye on this thread and I think it's great that you've made this theory but honestly it's like an in universe opinion everyone might view things differently but at the end of the day the emperor could just be an old codger waving a stick at chaos or he could be malal or he could be a flying spaghetti monster. I just think if there's a chance for an escalated argument we all stop and think before raking it to a finger pointing shouting I'm right your wrong argument that drags everyone through the mud. Just my 2 cents I'm just noticing the posts are creeping towards said conclusion Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316854-emperor-and-heresy-theory/#findComment-4246367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.