Valkyrion Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Say you wanted to make a Crimson Fists force led by Polux, so it's very early post heresy - how would you go about it, both rules wise and modeling? Would you use the Legiones Astartes army list or Codex Space Marines? If you use the LA list should you use the Imperial Fists doctrines or not? Similarly, using Codex SM means hamstringing yourself by omitting several units (the flyers, razorbacks, centurions etc) From a modeling point of view, how new should you go? How much new style TDA, or MKVII, or plastic rhinos etc Just brainmashing really, so any input would be smashing! (if this needs moving to amicus or the IF forum then obviously do so!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316860-making-an-army-immediately-after-the-heresy/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 You'd use the legion rules for IF. There is 7 years post heresy difference, as opposed to 10000 between Codex SM and Legion rules. By the post Heresy stage, most likely armies are recovering what they can, and pressing whatever they can to meet shortfalls incumbent of a galactic civil war. 'New' Style terms exit in the Heresy - called indomitus. It takes a back pace due to how FW want to encourage sales of their new stuff by showcasing shiny new stuff. MkVII will be in ever increasing numbers, but how soon depends on how immediately after. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316860-making-an-army-immediately-after-the-heresy/#findComment-4245624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azkaellon3 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 As the IF were quit late with adapting to the codex astartes, time already moved on, so like Hesh said newer types of armour would be used by now. Also the fists and successor chapters (except for the templars) followed the codex very strictly, so no 20 man squads etc. Overall I think it would be best to use the normal SM codex to represent Fists after the iron cage. And of course you can always include heresy stuff through the imperial armour books. Modelwise maybe mainly mkVII mixed with the more traditional armours here and there. Rhinos: both are fine I guess (both were used in the heresy and probably same applies for after it) Termis: I´d say indominus pattern but same with normal power armour But it´s also up to you, what kind of army feeling you want, as legion plays quite differently to the codex Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316860-making-an-army-immediately-after-the-heresy/#findComment-4245659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegriss Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I'd say do what you want but if relics can survive 10000 years then there would be lots of heresy era stuff around right after it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316860-making-an-army-immediately-after-the-heresy/#findComment-4245673 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 Alright, so ideas have been formulating... So, do we know how long between the end of the Heresy and then the Iron Cage and the Imperial Fists successors being born? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316860-making-an-army-immediately-after-the-heresy/#findComment-4245998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Going to shamelessly plug this thread of a Templars force set just after the Heresy! http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314998-the-scouring-and-the-birth-of-the-new-templar/ Bladewolf has done a cracking job on this, lots to get inspiration from! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316860-making-an-army-immediately-after-the-heresy/#findComment-4246000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob P Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I honestly don't know when the Iron Cage took place other than around or during The Scouring. However, Perturabo had to have time to create it. I got the impression that the IF were still at legion at the time though. A few people threw around ideas of 'chapter' iconography pre-chapter split in a thread I started a few weeks ago. The extent to which you want to adopt the Crimson Fists colours in a 'shortly after the heresy' force is up to you. The difficulty with the Crimson Fists that it is a little harder to adopt a transitionary colour scheme because red, yellow and blue contrast a bit too much for my liking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316860-making-an-army-immediately-after-the-heresy/#findComment-4246006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Alexis_Polux#Death This. This is what I want. Eight centuries after the Crimson Fists were founded, so the dude himself must be going on a thousand years old. The trouble is 'citation needed'. Where does the eight centuries bit come from? I want to make the chapter that set off on that crusade. I like Crimson Fists, I don't like that awful book Rynn's World, but 10,000 years is a long time to play with, and I like the Heresy stuff so...boom, no? But I'd like it to work. So, late heresy early non heresy brethren, what would the Crimson Fists that Polux was in charge of when he died have looked like? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316860-making-an-army-immediately-after-the-heresy/#findComment-4246119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I honestly don't know when the Iron Cage took place other than around or during The Scouring. However, Perturabo had to have time to create it. I got the impression that the IF were still at legion at the time though. A few people threw around ideas of 'chapter' iconography pre-chapter split in a thread I started a few weeks ago. The extent to which you want to adopt the Crimson Fists colours in a 'shortly after the heresy' force is up to you. The difficulty with the Crimson Fists that it is a little harder to adopt a transitionary colour scheme because red, yellow and blue contrast a bit too much for my liking. Dorn yielded to Guilliman after the fiasco of the Iron Cage and adopted the codex in the late scouring Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316860-making-an-army-immediately-after-the-heresy/#findComment-4246127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Old Index Astartes fluff from back in early 2000's. Pretty much everything within the index astartes has been either debunked, contradicted, or otherwise too flawed to use as a canonical source regarding the new fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316860-making-an-army-immediately-after-the-heresy/#findComment-4246204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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