VS Tau

[Panda_Saurus_Rex]

So I have a game coming up against Tau at 2K points. I haven't played any Tau since their new codex/units/decurion stuff so I was wondering what all you guys do to counter their massed shooting? Even before their new stuff any time I would play Tau 1 v 1 I always lost pretty hard as they would just sit back in a corner and blast away. Any advice?

 

 

 

[Ultramarine vet]

I always got slaughtered by them too, brother. Although I was stupid and battled them without many fast or deep striking units.

 

For instance, I set up 3 tactical squads in rhinos. The Tau blew up all the rhinos like they were nothing and most of my marines perished in round 1. The rest were completely taken out in round 2. The story was the same for most of my other units. Only my 5 vanguards reached and wiped out a 12 man firewarrior squad. Thats literally all I killed.

 

So, you wanna take drop pods, deep strike terminators, assault marines, vanguards, etc. Limit what you set up on the board. And whatever you do set up, make sure they are fast or have some serious cover. Speed and aggression is mostly what you need. Lol.

[SlangWhanger]

Meltacides, Grav bikes, Whirlwinds are things I believe work well against Tau. Assaulting the shooty things still applies I guess, though there'll be few problems: getting there; not dying to combined Overwatch.

 

Alternatively run a horde SM army (yup, it works) and don't expose yourself, just taking out his troops and only dealing with the gribbliest of units. Only really works in Maelstrom, but could work elsewhere.

 

Edit: @ Ultramarine Vet - deepstriking is great to get up in their face, but with all their damn interceptors it can be quite hard to land! But, as you said, being on the board at the start can be an issue too...

[Panda_Saurus_Rex]

So this is the list I'm brining (as it is the one I most recently built and I have yet to test it out). 

 

 

Terminator Smash!! 

 

Baal Strike Force

 

Terminator Chaplain - 130pts

 

Terminator Librarian, ML2, storm shield - 125pts

 

 

Fragioso Dreadnought, heavy flamer, drop pod - 165pts

 

Hammenator Squad, LRC, multi-melta - 485pts

 

Clawminator Squad, LRC, multi-melta - 460pts

 

 

 

Scouts, combat blades, melta bombs - 60pts

 

Tac Squad, heavy flamer, plasma gun, 2x plasma pistols, drop pod, missile launcher - 255pts

 

 

 

Assault Squad, 2X melta guns, Vet Sgt, combat shield, thunder hammer, drop pod - 235pts

 

Razorback, TL Lascannon - 85pts

 

 

Total: 2000pts

 

 

 

 

The plan pretty much relies on getting Dawn of War deployment and first turn. Turn 1 I would move all vehicles 12" and drop in Fragioso & Tac squad depending on what he has. Also thinking of trading out the plasma for grav to mitigate the Get's Hot. Stick Libby with Hammers and Chaplain with Claws and roll on Biomancy. Hopefully I'll get close enough to charge Turn 2 before he destroys my vehicles. If we get Hammer & Anvil I'm pretty much :cussed I think.

[Ultramarine vet]

Meltacides, Grav bikes, Whirlwinds are things I believe work well against Tau. Assaulting the shooty things still applies I guess, though there'll be few problems: getting there; not dying to combined Overwatch.

Alternatively run a horde SM army (yup, it works) and don't expose yourself, just taking out his troops and only dealing with the gribbliest of units. Only really works in Maelstrom, but could work elsewhere.

Edit: @ Ultramarine Vet - deepstriking is great to get up in their face, but with all their damn interceptors it can be quite hard to land! But, as you said, being on the board at the start can be an issue too...

Good point. I haven't fought Tau in a while. So I wasn't thinking about their dang interceptors. They are such an aggravating army to battle, honestly. Now that I'm experienced, I would like another go at them, but throne of the Emperor, they are so difficult.

[Indefragable]

Angel's Wing.

[Charlo]

Angel's Wing.

See now you've got me thinking...

 

What about if we put a character with the angels wing in a squad of those RG Vanguard Vets that can charge from assault, and detach him from the squad after they've arrived?

 

Deny the interceptor and then charge :D

[RedemptionNL]

You can only detach in the Movement phase though, and you can't move if you've just arrived by Deep Strike.

[Charlo]

Thought that might be the case, wasn't sure if they could charge and less e the extra guy behind. Oh well.

[Indefragable]

Angel's Wing in Angel's Fury Spearhead

[Frater Cornelius]

An easy way to avoid Interceptor pie plates is using Pods and landing as close as possible to the enemy, preferably ending your movement phase 1" away from an enemy unit. This way the opponent may not be able to put down a pie plate because he would be clipping his own as well.

[Panda_Saurus_Rex]

I stopped using jump infantry when I they were getting shot off the board because no armor and deep striking basically gives your opponent an entire shooting phase to just :cuss you up. Any advice on the list above? I have since switched to grav-gun, dual grav-pistols on tac squad and using the Flesh Tearer's SF for this game. 

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

I would like to know how your list plays out. Personally I have found that the one weakness to Tau: many, many MANY targets. I ran a full on jump infantry list using the baal strike force and although he did come close to tabling me, he had a harder time of it then when I played my "best toys". It was also a very fun game!

[LOSSbennet]

The new decurion formation thing isn't so bad as should be markers on one unit count for all those in formation if same target, but good tau players should already be focus firing. So lots targets is good idea rather than expensive units as they have so much ap2.

Get rid markers as soon as. Drop pod furioso is perfect for this and front 13 can resist pesky missile pod interceptors. Or flamer pods.

Grav bikes are essential.

As ex-tau hated dakka pred and whirlwind as so cheap but they mince firewarriors. Also sounds daft but tank shock everything if vehicles make it, if there is no ethereal they will start running.

[Charlo]

The problem with Preds and whirlwinds for us is that they take a HS slot each.

 

That said I'm a firm believer in the Suppression force from the vanilla codex with land speeders and whirlwinds. Add in Telion as your cheeky warlord for rending, ignore cover, shred, whirlwinds, even if they are ap5 with that.

[Panda_Saurus_Rex]

Well, played Tau dude and lost by turn 3. Turned around and played some Ultramarines who brought Calgar + Honor guard, an armoured task force, and some other toys and won that game. 

[Charlo]

Any bat reps or more detailed thoughts on both? Knowledge is power brother :)

[Red-beard]

Why play BSF against Tau? Play CAD and take advantage of objective secured and the mobility of your army. 

 

I played against the new Tau in a tournament over the weekend. My opponent was playing a ten-piranha list that allowed him to create 20 free gun-drones every round. That's 240 points of free models every round! He also had a Riptide, some broadsides, several crisis suits, and an allied Iron Hands Skyhammer Annihilation Force. After four rounds, my 1850 points was facing off against 2810 points of Tau/Iron Hands.

 

I managed to beat him in 5 rounds. I did it by playing to the objectives. I ran a CAD instead of BSF and took full advantage of OS. I had OS units in fast rhinos that could snag objectives. That was the difference. 

[greycat]

Drop pods all round. Taking fragioso's in pods is a good idea for anti infantry first turn plus my favourite anti tank unit which is 5 man assault squad with 2x melta and 2x infernus pistol.

 

I'm working my way up to 3 of each unit in my army currently only have 2 of each.

 

Basically you need a lot of fast moving elements with either great close range firepower or combat ability.

 

I wouldn't recommend terminators because tau should definitely have enough ap2 weapons to wreck them. Do you know what your opponent is going to be taking?

Red-beard how was he able to create a new unit each round? Is it a new formation?

[RedemptionNL]

Why play BSF against Tau? Play CAD and take advantage of objective secured and the mobility of your army. 

 

I played against the new Tau in a tournament over the weekend. My opponent was playing a ten-piranha list that allowed him to create 20 free gun-drones every round. That's 240 points of free models every round! He also had a Riptide, some broadsides, several crisis suits, and an allied Iron Hands Skyhammer Annihilation Force. After four rounds, my 1850 points was facing off against 2810 points of Tau/Iron Hands.

 

I managed to beat him in 5 rounds. I did it by playing to the objectives. I ran a CAD instead of BSF and took full advantage of OS. I had OS units in fast rhinos that could snag objectives. That was the difference.

 

It's been a while since I've played Tau, but isn't the detaching drones from vehicles a one-time deal? You're not making new units after all, just ' combat squadding' the drones and the vehicle.

[Panda_Saurus_Rex]

So he ended up not going too cheesy list wise and just brought 2K woth of Tau Decurion, I think it's called Hunter Contingent? I know I'm going to get the names of these wrong so bear with me. He had (as far as I can remember):

 

Retaliation Cadre: Commander with 3 Crisis Suits and like 6-7 drones. Don't know the exact count, these were deep striking.

 

Hammerhead with railgun

 

Devilfish X2 full of Fire Warriors, one had an Ethereal

 

10-man Kroot squad with snipers

 

10-man Pathfinder squad X2

 

Markerlight drone squad with what looked like a Crisis suit commanding them

 

Single broadside with ~3 drones attached

 

Single Riptide

 

I think one more crisis suit team? 

 

 

The fight - Maelstrom Mission: Contact Lost


So he wins turn one, :cuss me. The only things I'm starting on the board with are the two LRC and the Razorback full of scouts. I rolled on Flesh Tearer SF and got my WL (the Libby) Hatred. I roll on Biomancy and get Iron Arm and Warp Speed.

 

 

Turn 1 He spreads his 3 markerlight squads across the board and has 2 of them on top of buildings. Hides all vehicles except Hammerhead. He infiltrates the Kroot and then scouts them into a building near my deployment zone. He opens up the railgun and immediately immobilizes the Hammenator Squad, uses the Kroot to shoot at side armor of Razorback and manages to get a couple of 6's, shooting the lascannon right off, and making it into a crappy Rhino. 

 

 

Start of my turn I drop my Fragioso and Assault squad, Libby + Hammenators get out to go Kroot hunting as they were the closest thing and I didn't want to foot slog them across the board. I was hoping to be able to chain assaults together. I move the Clawminators up 12" in their LRC just trying to get into combat as soon as possible. I move the now-toothless Razorback up as far as possible as well just trying to get the scouts inside near something. The Fragioso lands right next to a Pathfinder squad all grouped together and just eliminates them. Assault Team I deep strike right behind the Hammerhead but he jinks the melta shots. I charge the Hammenators into the Kroot and kill them all. 

 

 

Turn 2 He deep strikes the Riptide, but it mishaps and goes back into reserves, same with the extra crisis suit team. His Commander + Suits/drones land near the building with my Hammenators; no bueno. He moves the Railgun into better position to shoot at Clawminators and disembarks one squad of Fire Warriors next to my Assault Squad. His Railgun opens up on Clawminators but he rolls poorly for armor pen on the LRC. His Ethereal that can cast stuff without having to use the warp somehow gives his Firewarrior squad extra shots and they eliminate the Assault squad guys. He then uses most of his markerlights to buff up the Command Squad's BS skill to like BS 9 and just focus fires the Hammenators to death. I only had to roll six 1's which definitely happened throughout all the dice I had to roll. His Broadside strips a couple of hull points off my Fragioso but no pen shots.

 

My turn I fail my reserve roll for Tac Squad and I use the Razorback to tank shock his Command Squad. He fails and is forced to fall back so I move my Clawminators and Fragioso up into prime position to charge him. I pivot the LRC to block LOS from one half of the board and I shoot all its guns into his second Pathfinder squad whittling them down to 4 guys. I Frag the command squad and kill off the drones and wound a couple of suits. I charge first Fragioso which eats overwatch with no problems and then Claws with Chaplain. I manage to kill all suits and take his Commander down to 1 wound but fail the sweeping advance with the Fragioso so he gets away. 

 

 

Turn 3 At this point most of my remaining army are very close to his table edge so he just walks on the Riptide and extra Crisis Suit team and brings up a Devilfish and focus fires Claws to death, explodes Fragioso with Broadside, as well as killing the Razorback and all the Scouts. At this point I tell him if I fail my reserve roll for the Tac Squad I'm calling game, he wins, because all I have left on the table is an immobilised LRC, and a LRC with full hull points. I fail the reserve roll.

 

 

All in all he was actually a pretty decent guy to play against, didn't take anything I would deem OP and just played his army in a very efficient way. That whole Coordinated Firepower is crucial and definitely gets work done. He also played his markerlight squads very tactically and used them effectively. Afterwards we talked and he thought that two terminator squads was a little much and, while I agree that I had way too few models on the table compared to him, I honestly don't really like Sternguard/Vanguard Squads, but I admit I could have dropped one Termie squad for an extra Assault Squad or two. 

[Panda_Saurus_Rex]

Ultramarine game was The Relic, Dawn of War deployment. I played the same Terminator list, this time utilizing BSF for that +1 Initiative and get a Master Crafted Force Axe and he brought:

 

Strike Force Command - Calgar with honor guard in a Land Raider (lascannons)

 

Armored Task Force - Techmarine + servitors, 3 las preds (only one with sponsons), 3 Vindicators (one with Chronus), 1 Whirlwind

 

Razorback with las X2 - each had a squad of 5 guys

 

I win 1st deployment but he seizes 1st turn. 

 

He moves the LRC 6 inches and fires at my Clawminators stripping a couple of hull points off and moves Calgar + Honor Squad out. He shoots all Preds + Razorbacks at Hammenators but forgets he can re-roll penetrating shots (I admit I didn't know he could it either) so only gets one shot through with Crew Stunned. He uses Conversion beamer on Razorback and gets Crew Shaken. He had already announced Vindicator squadron was coming in from reserves so at least I was spared that Turn 1.

 

My turn I move Razorback up and disembark scouts right by Calgar + Co, same with Clawminators. I drop pod Fragioso down right next to Techmarine and Assault Squad right behind his Preds. Assault guys explode one Pred and take some hull points from the others. Fragioso messed up the drop so was out of range of Tech + Serfs so he shakes his fist angrily from a distance. Libby and Hammenators are very angry they are stuck in a stunned LRC so grumble to themselves about it. I fire the other LRC and all the scouts full into his honor guard and kill 3 of them then charge in Claws. Clawminators kill the rest of the Honor Guard and take Calgar down to 1W before he swings back and kills all Termies but the Sarge and Chaplain. We stay put.

 

 

Turn 2 He rolls the Vindi squad on the board and then uses the remaining Preds and Razorbacks to try to kill Hammenator transport again but messes up pen rolls. Thank the Emps for AV14! He shoots the Vindi Apoc blast and takes it down to 1 HP but thankfully only Crew Shaken. Whirlwind kills off a couple of the Assault guys but they DGAF.  Techmarine uses Conversion Beamer to explode Clawminator transport, while his LR uses las to wreck the Razorback, and Scouts take bets over Calgar + Chaplain fight. Calgar wins, Scouts soil themselves. 

 

 

I move Hammenators up and disembark right in the face of his Preds. I drop pod tac squad with grav weapons right behind his Vindicators, Fragioso moves up to Techmarine +  Co while the Scouts bravely, bravely run away from Calgar (toward the Relic). Fragioso heavy flamers/frag cannons the servitors to death and manages to put a wound on Techmarine. Since meltas were killed off the Assault marines move up to charge Whirlwind. Tac squad takes out one Vindi and manages to strip HP from Chronus. Scouts run farther from Calgar. Hammenators + Libby multi-charge the Pred squadron and one Razorback and wreck them all. Assault guys charge Whirlwind and manage two glancing hits. 

 

Turn 3 Dirty Uncle Calgar chases Scouts, Whirlwind backs up and shoots at Hammenators kiiling none, 2 Vindicators shoot at Hammenators killing none, two squads of marines shoot at Assault squad killing 3. One squad of 5 marines charges Assault squad but lose the fight badly. My turn the Tac Squad finishes off the Vindicators by shooting/chargning, Assault squad charges his last Tac squad, Hammenators charge remaining Razorback, Fragioso charges Techmarine, Scouts haul ass toward Relic and away from Calgar as fast as possible. 

 

 

Turn 4 Not a whole lot left on the table at this point. He shoots Whirlwind at Hammenators and kills 3, Chronus moves toward the Relic, LR kills my Fragioso, my Assault squad is locked with his remaining Tacs. My turn the Assault squad finishes the Tac squad, Libby + remaining charge Chronus, kill him, and consolidate toward Relic, Scouts reach the Relic and hide from Calgar.

 

 

Turn 5 Calgar just can't keep up with the young'uns, Whirlwind fires and kills my Assault squad, Land Raider moves into better position but can't get an angle this turn, everything else is dead. Tac marines chill in his deployment zone as they are now too far away to really do anything. I chill on the Relic and the game just kind of ends. He has first blood, I have linebreaker + relic so I take the win.

 

 

This one was a little better but honestly if my opponent had remembered that Predator squadrons get tank hunter that first turn I think it would have turned out differently. I just really like expensive dudes but man I think I'm going to have to change my ways. My army is just too low of model count.

[BadDice0809]

That Ultramarine write up had me cracking up! Too awesome.

[Red-beard]

 

It's been a while since I've played Tau, but isn't the detaching drones from vehicles a one-time deal? You're not making new units after all, just ' combat squadding' the drones and the vehicle.

 

 

It's one of the new Tau formations in the new expansion. It allows the Piranhas to deploy their drones and then fly off the board into ongoing reserves. The formation benefit allows them to replace any lost drones when they come back. So they come back on the map, deploy drones, and then fly off the back again to refill on drones. Rinse, wash, repeat. 

 

It's total cheese and needs to be FAQ'd.

[The Unseen]

You can't enter ongoing reserves the same turn you arrived on the table.