Regarding Vanguard Veterans...

[Strahn]

Brothers,

 

I recently picked up the Shadow Force Solaq set with the intention to convert all to BA. I've never owned or used Vanguard Veterans and was wondering how you would kit them out. I'd like to kit them with SS and TH purely because I think it looks awesome. I don't think I'd use BP&Chain Sword combo I feel DC would fill that slot better. 2x Lightning Claws looks good as well.

[The Unseen]

Vanguard sit in a weird place in our codex, generally speaking sanguinary guard are better if you wanted to throw a lot of PW's into the unit, cause its built into their unit cost, and you get a 2+ save to boot. DC are better with the stock loadouts for a very small points increase, to get rage and FNP, and if you want a small unit with specials, command squads and assault squads both are cheaper and can take meltas. Though there is some fun things you can do with formations though. If you want to run 2 10 man squads and a sternguard squad in a raven, that formation can get some value since their PW's are free.

 

Also, take 5 with MB's, get a formation that lets them assault from deepstrike. Charge a super heavy. Laugh.

[Quixus]

Also, take 5 with MB's, get a formation that lets them assault from deepstrike. Charge a super heavy. Laugh.

Which formation is that and where can I find it?

[LutherMax]

 

Also, take 5 with MB's, get a formation that lets them assault from deepstrike. Charge a super heavy. Laugh.

Which formation is that and where can I find it?

Seconded!

[Karhedron]

Also, take 5 with MB's, get a formation that lets them assault from deepstrike. Charge a super heavy. Laugh.

That  is the Angel's Fury Spearhead Force, which is 3 Tactical Squads and 3 Stormravens. The Tactical Squads must be at full strength of 10 models and cannot take Dedicated Transports and must begin embarked on the Stormravens. The Sergeants from each squad get a Teleport Homer for free. The Tac Squads get Objective Secured and the entire formation arrives on a single reserve roll, which can be rolled on Turn 1. Finally, Blood Angel units that deep strike within 12" of at least two teleport homers from this formation do not scatter and can charge on the turn they arrive.

 

It is very pricey as Formation costs 1000+ points before you even start adding the VV and other toys.

 

Personally I would be tempted by a mix of Thunder hammers and Storm Shields (although not necessarily both on every model). Shields up front to tank and Hammers behind to whack stuff. Give a Sergent or IC a Grav Pistol to concuss targets before you charge. It gives you are unit nearly as durable and hitty as Hammernators but with much greater mobility. Use them to hunt MCs or other tough targets.

 

The last option is to take them as part of a Archangels Sanguine Wing (2 x 10-man jump-pack Vanguard squads, a 10-man Sternguard squad in a Stormraven). The Vanguard can each take a free Power Weapon or Lightning Claw and the Sternguard can take free combi-weapons.

 

Let that sink in. 20 free power weapons and 10 free combi weapons. That is around 400 points of free wargear! A bit all-or-nothing but a very powerful option.

[Moggimus]

It's a ravenguard formation I think, blood Angels don't have a formation that lets vv's assault from deep strike as far as I know, unless they are in a drop pod and accompanied by three stormravens full of tac squads, Angels fury spearhead force.

 

Oh it's any unit arriving from deep strike, cool, still very expensive though just to have your vv's assault after deep striking.

[Moggimus]

Shadowstrike kill team is the ravenguard formation

[Riot Earp]

Shadowstrike kill team is the ravenguard formation

 

Shadowstrike Killteam (Ravenguard Formation from the Kauyon book)

 

"Requirements: 2-4 Scout Squads, 1-3 Vanguard Veteran Squads Restrictions: All Vanguard Veteran Squads in this Formation must be equipped with jump packs. Special Rules: On Time…: Instead of rolling to see whether a unit of Vanguard Veterans from this Formation arrives from Reserve, you can choose whether to pass or fail that roll. …On Target: Vanguard Veteran Squads from this Formation can charge on the turn they arrive from Deep Strike. In addition, they do not scatter when arriving from Deep Strike if the first model is placed within 9″ of at least two Scout Squads from this Formation. Source: War Zone Damocles – Kauyon"

 

If you don´t wanna play other marines then Blood Angels.

Angel's Fury Spearhead Force would be the expensive answer.

 

Requirements: 3 Tactical Squads, 3 Stormraven Gunships Restrictions: Each Tactical squad must include 10 models. The Sergeant of each Tactical squad in this Formation must take a teleport homer as a free upgrade. This Formation’s Tactical squads cannot take Dedicated Transports, and must begin the game embarked in the Stormraven Gunships from this Formation. Special Rules: Augur Triangulation: If a friendly unit with the Blood Angels Faction arrives from Deep Strike Reserve within 12” of at least two models from this Formation equipped with teleport homers, then it does not scatter, and can charge on the same turn it arrives. Objective Secured: All Troops units from this Formation have the Objective Secured special rule (see page 122 of Warhammer 40,000: The Rules). Spearhead Strike Force: When making Reserve Rolls, make a single roll for the entire Formation, which you can choose to re-roll. If successful, all units arrive from the Formation. You can make a Reserve Roll for this Formation from the start of Turn 1. Source: White Dwarf 47

[Charlo]

Vanguard are our monster hunters. Theyre fast and have access to defence against AP3/2 with Storm Shields and concussive weapons on Gravpistols and Thunder Hammers.

 

Think of them as TH/SS terminators with more speed and slightly less survivability and you're on the money. Plus they're easy to attach characters too, a Priest really knocks them out.

 

Or you could be like me and screw all that. I've got a squad of five all dual wielding hand flamers, except the sarge who has a power sword too.

[Servant of Dante]

I have 5 with dual plasma pistols because it's cool

[Jolemai]

Vanguard are our monster hunters. Theyre fast and have access to defence against AP3/2 with Storm Shields and concussive weapons on Gravpistols and Thunder Hammers.

 

Think of them as TH/SS terminators with more speed and slightly less survivability and you're on the money. Plus they're easy to attach characters too, a Priest really knocks them out.

 

Or you could be like me and screw all that. I've got a squad of five all dual wielding hand flamers, except the sarge who has a power sword too.

 

Remind me/us why this Sergeant isn't equipped with the flaming sword from the Empire Wizard box?

[Charlo]

 

 

Vanguard are our monster hunters. Theyre fast and have access to defence against AP3/2 with Storm Shields and concussive weapons on Gravpistols and Thunder Hammers.

 

Think of them as TH/SS terminators with more speed and slightly less survivability and you're on the money. Plus they're easy to attach characters too, a Priest really knocks them out.

 

Or you could be like me and screw all that. I've got a squad of five all dual wielding hand flamers, except the sarge who has a power sword too.

Remind me/us why this Sergeant isn't equipped with the flaming sword from the Empire Wizard box?

.... Because I don't have one :( it's a BA sword though!

 

I was considering using a mane from the old dark eldar warriors kit to look like flame, it curves to the sword almost perfectly....

[Spagunk]

In what circumstances would a relic blade work? Seems like something you'd do in a storm shield/thunderhammer squad but I was thinking of doing a 5 man gunslinger squad with a relic blade sarge.

[sebs_evo7]

Well the relic blade gives +2 strength but the trade off being ap3. I think going after a MC with it would be great and you would pair it with a storm shield because the blade is two handed denying you +1 attack for two ccw.

I only run van guard vets so i can use that blood rain formation. Coming off a raven with rage is awesome but you only get it once so you need to make it count. I keep them cheap with only a few power swords so i can spend points on my death company

[Strahn]

Thank you brothers. Time and again I'm impressed with how helpful this community is. Thank you again!

[dakkamasta]

I'll second the recommendation of the Archangel's Sanguine Wing formation. I've used it many times against different armies and have found it to be very effective. I find the best way to run it is by combat squadding everything and giving them very minimal or even no upgrades other than their free weapons. The key to using it is to put as much on the table at the start to support their arrival. Remember you'll have 3 heavy slots since the stormraven is part of the formation, so load up on sicarans, vindicators, predators etc. for some long range dakka. The key to success is their small numbers. 4 small squads of vets is hard to deal with especially when each one has 4 attacks on the charge with a power weapon making every unit deadly even with 5 men. 

 

As for loadouts, I've found power swords to effective, but i've become more and more drawn to power mauls. a 5 man combat squad of veterans with power mauls will dish out 20 strength 7 ap 4 attacks with concussive on the charge. The sheer versatility of this is amazing, you'll murder any light/medium infrantry, put lots of wounds on MC's and concuss them, can hurt any vehicle that isn't armour 14, with very good chances that you'll destroy any vehicle with AV 12 or lower, heavy infantry can be dealt with due to high strength and mass attacks, so higher toughness isn't a problem and 2+ saves can be dealt with by forcing saves. I find 1 melta bomb per 5 men to be a good investment aswell so that each combat squad has a better chance of destroying high AV vehicles. The best part is that you'll have 4 units capable of this damage output, arriving at once.

 

As for the sternguard, it really depends on what your list is lacking. I usually run them with 10 combi-meltas, or 5 melta/5 grav, I find plasma not as useful since they have poison rounds to deal with high toughness and grav is probably better for them. I find these guys always get used as a wild card, since they usually don't deploy till turn 3 at the latest, they pretty much come down to mop up a unit that the rest of my army has been having trouble with.

 

Remember you need the firepower to support them aswell. The main thing you'll need is transport killers so that your vets can stomp their infantry, which once again is the beauty of power mauls is that even all else fails the vanguard can still get it done.

[Charlo]

4 combat squads of Vanguard can pull off a lot of nice multi charges that aren't disordered :D

 

It's a big shame they don't get +1 initiative in this formation as that would let then really handle a lot of enemy MEQ on a single battle line

[dakkamasta]

Giving them +1 initiative would probably make them a tad over the top. Besides, by not getting the initiative bonus, you can ditch the BSF for a CAD and get objective secured troops and can then reroll on the strategic table because let's face it, you should be rolling on the strategic table (twice with the veritas vitae). With Obsec troops you can take objectives easier in the early game so that you don't fall behind in points before your formation comes on.