Void Shield Harness + Flare Shield

[Seahawk]

Just want to clarify a combo my friend uses to double shield his Spartan:

Void Shield Harness says:

"Any shooting attack that...hits a target inside it instead hits the void shield - which has an armor value of 12. Once the shield is collapsed, further hits strike the original target instead."

Flare Shield says:

"A flare shield operates against shooting attacks that strike the vehicle's front arc."

On one hand, I'm actually hitting the void shield instead of the vehicle, thus no strength reduction.

The other is that the attack "strikes the vehicle's front arc", regardless of that the void shield is in the way, so the strength is still reduced.

1. So I shoot a lascannon. Do I hit the Void Shield at S9 or S8? Why?

Presuming the shield hit isn't reduced, how do I resolve a multi-shot weapon, like an assault cannon? Example: scoring 5 hits.

2. Do I roll each hit one at a time to see if it collapses and any remaining hits strike the Spartan at reduced strength, or just resolve ALL hits at once against the void shield, because it's a simultaneous attack?

[Memento Of Prospero]

The keyword here is instead. 

 

The voidshield harness transfers the hits againsts itself. You roll your armour penetration rolls one at a time until the shield collapses (at regular strength since they no longer are targetting the flareshielded target). Once the shield pops, further hits return to the original target and are now affected by the flare shield.

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

This

[Hesh Kadesh]

It's the same reasoning as to why Haywire can strip Void Shields from a Titan, but can't hurt the titan itself.

[Slips]

It's the same reasoning as to why Haywire can strip Void Shields from a Titan, but can't hurt the titan itself.

If we go by the ITC ruling, haywire cant strip void shields. And for me its the ruling I decided to use.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Don't see why? Same reasoning above.

 

You're not shooting a Titan, you're shooting the Void Shield *instead*. That said, YMMV locally. 

[Slips]

But, haywire calls out specifically to Vehicles, which a Void Shield is not.

 

Page 165 BRB: When a Weapon with this special rule hits a VEHICLE, roll a D6 to determine the effect rather than rolling for armor penetration normally.

 

Void Shields also lack Hull Points instead only needing a Single Pen/Glance to be removed automatically, no rolling on the Damage Chart (in the even of a Pen).

[Hesh Kadesh]

Void Shields are a rules black hole. If you use that argument, then Void Shields cannot be taken out by any means; Armour Penetration calls out Vehicle. Even buildings cannot be damaged, because the Armour Penetration roll specifies vehicle, yet it only refers to "targeting" buildings in regards to treating them as a vehicle, not the actual damage and penetration etc.

 

Void Shields aren't anything other than a special rule (not even wargear). They are non-vehicular Armour value which was formerly applicable purely and without exception to vehicles - anything with an armour value has since non-explicitly been treated as a vehicle, or else the problem above lies. I mean, this is one of those things that you'd have to agree before a game, precisely because of that - calling over a judgement call one way or another, possibly resulting to dicing off and leaving both players unhappy (or worse, one player very happy that they've further noped something, or had something that they'd potentially relied on).

[Slips]

Thats the thing about Void Shields so its a toss up on how you and yours wants to run them, in the end.

[SkimaskMohawk]

What gives permission for a unit not on the table to generate an AoE through a vehicle 

[Slips]

What gives permission for a unit not on the table to generate an AoE through a vehicle 

True, a VSH Equipped unit does not confer to a transport he is riding within.

 

I think in this instance, the question was posed in terms of the Spartan being partially inside the 5" Bubble? ...since it can't physically fit inside the Template.

[Seahawk]

I hate void shields and their utter lack of being rules friendly. ;)

 

More questions have been raised. What's the difference between:

 

- Rolling all 5 hits to penetrate the shield from a single firing model, and;

- Rolling all 5 hits to wound a single marine

 

Because, in my head, I perceive the void shield as a single-wound target. Since all the hits are happening simultaneously from a single model's shooting, they can only affect the shield. Just like with such a target, excess wounds/pens are wasted, and nothing transfers to the vehicle underneath. A similar rules interaction happens in close combat with a vehicle: if it's immobilized at initiative step 5, then the remaining attacks at I5 still have to roll to hit, but those at I4 get to hit automatically, due to timing.

 

 

What gives permission for a unit not on the table to generate an AoE through a vehicle

 

Well actually, a unit in a transport is still on the table as far as some rules are concerned (scoring, shooting with passengers, effects on passengers, AoE special rules, etc.), and don't anyone tell you otherwise. Also, page 80 is what you're looking for: "If the players need to measure a range involving the embarked unit (except for its shooting) this range is measured to or from the vehicle's hull."

 

All AoE effects are thus usable whilst embarked, it's simply measured from the vehicle instead, usually generating a much larger bubble. Unfortunately, the VSH is written in a particularly stupid manner, requiring a blast template. Technically, that means the controlling player can place it anywhere on the tank's hull then.

 

What constitutes being "inside" the AoE then? Since a synonym of "inside" is "within", and "within" is defined as "if any part of the model is within range, then the model is said to be in range". Thus, technically as long as any part of the Spartan is touched by the 5" template, then the entire model is counted as being "inside" the AoE.

 

Here's another tickler: Say you pop the VSH with a 6, requiring you to center the blast template on the model. What happens when it's embarked? Does it hit the vehicle or the passengers? Do you center it on the transport, or not at all? Fun way to gain immunity from that effect.

[Charlo]

Surely you can't haywire a void shield down? It's not a vehicle. It's just an AV wall.

 

Also, do you need to pen or glance a shield to kill it?

[Slips]

A void shield is brought down on a glance or pen.

[Seahawk]

Still hoping for more answers. ;)

[Slips]

I'm AFB but I still hold the opinion that a model with the VSH does not confer it to any Transport they ride within since that would make for a funky interaction since they define it as being a 5" Large Blast Marker in size.

 

As to whether or not the Spartan w/ FS under a VSH being shot at confers the benefit of the FS to the shield: Titans do not confer their Melta/Haywire Immunity to their Void Shields and such. In this instance, I'd say no.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Still hoping for more answers.

On what which topics? This thread has gone in various directions from this, be more specific ;)

[Seahawk]

Well, being the OP, generally...mine. ;)

 

Na, so to recap the questions I asked in post #12:

 

3. Multishot weapons and void shields. Aren't you forced to resolve all shots from a single weapon at the same time on the void shield instead? Example, assault cannon hits 5 times, don't you roll all AP rolls at once, and excess glances/pens are lost? This is how it works shooting at anything else in the game. Or do the void shield rules override that.

 

4. If you are embarked and the void shield gets overloaded by a 6, how do you resolve centering the template? Place it anywhere on the tank and only hit the tank, or don't place it at all and nobody gets hurt?

[Hesh Kadesh]

"Once the shield is collapsed, further hits are resolved strike the original target instead." You answered that yourself in your original post.

 

You centre it on the bearer. The bearer is within the transport, but there's no rules for that. You are now treading into the state of "the rules don't say I can't" which is easily countered by my space marines shooting Strength D Lasers out of their eyes.

[Seahawk]

Figured, just wanted to be sure. 

 

Of course, I'd be more relaxed in my way of playing and say it hits D6 passengers, or the rear armor of the vehicle (or both!), instead of going the maximum :cuss route, but that's just me.