AfroCampbell Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Has anyone put any thought into this in relation to the Heresy: 1) Malcador and Empy must have been building up resources on Titan during this period 2) there were actually 21 legionnaire forces: 20 Adeptus Astartes legions, then the Grey Knights first generation recruits being created from the Emperor's gene stock supposedly.... 3) Aegis armour must have been developed alongside Mk 4 -Mk 6 timeline. 4) Secretly there must have been many psykers that have not followed the Edict of Nikea IF the training of recruits began before Titan entered the warp, which is a fair assumption considering it would have been unlikely they just had all these recruits twiddling their thumbs whilst they got 1000 of them together. 5) Interesting the colour scheme of the new FW Garro model.... ;) an obvious nod in a particular direction for the knights errant. 6) The initial batch of GK would have been athiests following the Imperial Truth?!?!?!?!? nek minute ..... couple of thousand years later.... "God-emperor".... that will be an interesting transition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316938-gk-origin/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Listen to the Audiobook Shield of Lies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316938-gk-origin/#findComment-4247143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000 Sons Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 The Grey Knights were a force planed by Mortarion and Malcador early in the Great Crusade. Using some of the parts from the short story Daemonology, Mortarion may have realized during the Heresy that the problem of the Imperium wasn't Psykers, but daemons, and that is why so many early Knight Errant's are Death Guard. This is my own view of things but I like to keep thinking the Grey Knights are the only Death Guard successor chapter. 1. Malcador and Emp probably knew off the bat that chaos was the real enemy and not just a wayward primarch, so work started fast to plan a post Heresy Imperium. 2. With the fall of so many Astartes, loyalist and traitor they knew there was no gene-stock that was strong enough to avoid corruption. 3. Again, knowing there would be a large gap of time before Titan returned, these knights needed to come back being a fighting force, and not out-dated relics. 4. Nikea goes out the window when the Heresy starts 5. Ya 6. Maybe there was some contact from some one in the Imperium post Heresy and Titan. That could have outlined how to condition the new recruits. and their beliefs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316938-gk-origin/#findComment-4247182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mehman Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 1000 sons, if I could, I'd like your post again ! The thought had occurred to me that Mortarion would be involved in the program, I just didn't think anyone else had thought about it, too. To think, you have a Primarch that abhors the witch yet utilizes arcane lore to figure out the threat of the Daemon. Funny little idea. Anyway, I think you're right on track ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316938-gk-origin/#findComment-4247221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I thought so many of the Knight Errants were death guard was because the majority of the loyalists to escape istavaan were death guard. Also, are we sure the Grey Knights see the Emperor as the God Emperor? And it isn't without reason to assume later on they wouldn't think that. Most legions didn't think he was a god, but in the end several of those who most embodied the Imperial Truth began to see him that way. 10000 years is a long enough time for the change Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316938-gk-origin/#findComment-4247921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionary Pallas Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 The Grey Knights were a force planed by Mortarion and Malcador early in the Great Crusade. Using some of the parts from the short story Daemonology, Mortarion may have realized during the Heresy that the problem of the Imperium wasn't Psykers, but daemons, and that is why so many early Knight Errant's are Death Guard. This is my own view of things but I like to keep thinking the Grey Knights are the only Death Guard successor chapter. *snip* Wait, HOLD THE PHONE! Are you suggesting that Mortarion was SENDING members of the Death Guard to join the Knights Errant, or am I just being an idiot? If true, this changes our entire perception of his character because we are talking about him realizing that joining Horus was a massive mistake & then choosing to send members to join the soon-to-be Grey Knights, so his genetic legacy can live on. Are we suggesting, that the Death Guard, ARE LOYAL?! I blame Alpharius... or Omegon... or both... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316938-gk-origin/#findComment-4247983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor of Calth Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Arik Tyrannis: Develop some sort of new hybrid geneseed to save himself in the Outcast Dead. That always struck me as a potential lead for how the Grey Knights came to be. I do believe Garro notes in one of the audio dramas that some sort of secret project is being developed on Titan. As for GK's being DG successors, I really can't see it. I see them being created from Arik's gendered with the founding masters being from 8 different legions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316938-gk-origin/#findComment-4248058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000 Sons Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Wait, HOLD THE PHONE! Are you suggesting that Mortarion was SENDING members of the Death Guard to join the Knights Errant, or am I just being an idiot? If true, this changes our entire perception of his character because we are talking about him realizing that joining Horus was a massive mistake & then choosing to send members to join the soon-to-be Grey Knights, so his genetic legacy can live on. Are we suggesting, that the Death Guard, ARE LOYAL?! Careful now, the only idiot here is me . Mortarion was against the Emperor, he did not like him or the direction he felt the Emp was taking the Imperium. He joined Horus because he thought Horus had the same mindset as him and was going to make a witch free Imperium. I believe it was in Vengeful Spirit that he shows his displeasure with Fulgrims change and sees that he has joined the side of witch lovers and daemon worshippers. The big 'villian' in the Death Guard is Calas Typhon who is working closely with Erebus behind Mortarions back. In Daemonology Mortarion and Malcador come to an understanding about the future of psykers in the Imperium, and could have worked together even during the Heresy. If there is one legion that could survive in the hellish and poisonous conditions of the Warp it would be the Death Guard . The Eisenstein was a Death Guard ship, maybe this was Mortarions last attempt to send Malcador an expe3rienced daemon fighting force. Most of this can't be proved, but with so many primarchs doing stupid things one of them (Mortarion) must have been smart enough to plan some thing that worked. @Praetor of Calth - We all know that the GK's are based on the Emperors gene-seed, but I look at it as a Death Guard successor mainly because so many of the early knights were Death Guard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316938-gk-origin/#findComment-4248069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionary Pallas Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 So he's trying to find the lesser of two evils by "sending" the soldiers aboard the Eisenstein to Malcador so that, should the Heresy fail there will always be someone to fight daemons & witches, even if that means he will be be their enemy too. This theory makes the Battle of Kornovin kind of tragic in a way. So if we assume that your theory is correct and that mortarion was in fact sending death guard to Malcador during the Heresy, then what would he do if Horus had won? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316938-gk-origin/#findComment-4248118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mehman Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 So if we assume that your theory is correct and that mortarion was in fact sending death guard to Malcador during the Heresy, then what would he do if Horus had won? If Horus had won then there would still be a need for the Grey Knights to kill the Daemon that would threaten his empire. Although I believe the program would have been sacked. The Knight Errants would have some plan of action, maybe. Knowing how the Imperium of M41 works, or doesn't, that would be redundancy enough for Horus to never find out about the plan . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316938-gk-origin/#findComment-4248126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 I absolutely love the conspiracy theory 1000 sons, but realistically I just don't see it being true. Still, you never know... :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316938-gk-origin/#findComment-4248171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Nope sorry but istvaan was the Traitors gambit even pre corruption Deamons etc. Marty is a all or nothing personality I don't see him doing this at all. He tried to get garro to join him pre istvaan then made it clear his intentions. Even by scars he's pretty much in regret mode but he's accepted his choice and path. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316938-gk-origin/#findComment-4248191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000 Sons Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 @ Caillum - Conspiracy theory is exactly what it is, there is far more proof against what I wish the Death Guard is. @ Kurama - Mort has accepted his choice, but I'd like to think the Eisenstein was a final message to Malcador 'Here are the tools to fight what we have become'. As a Thousand Sons and Magnus fan I already have a primarch who regrets what he did and mopes around the Warp. It would be nice if Mortarion wasn't another tragic primarch who never stood a chance and looks back at the glory days in regret. @ Afrocampbell Sorry to have derailed your GK thread into a Death Guard one but hopefully it was enjoyable to read. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316938-gk-origin/#findComment-4248303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfroCampbell Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 good discussion, not a derail ;) all g Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316938-gk-origin/#findComment-4248335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJB2K3 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Just listen and read the Garro dramas.The first "known" members of the Grey Kinghts were Death Guard because they followed Garro who (unknowingly) built the grey knights under malcadors orders. despiteWhile looking for the "Living Saint" he discovered the base on titan that would be the base of the GK's dispite Malcadors efforts to keep it from Garro. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316938-gk-origin/#findComment-4248337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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