01RTB01 Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Morning all, I'm up to 8000 points of emperor's children and I'm looking at acquiring one of the above. Make your cases and convince me! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Give us a list of your current units! Will help us advise you better. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/#findComment-4250089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
01RTB01 Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 Here we go! Fulgrim the Illuminator "Fulminata 5 Phoenix Guard Terminators - ""Phoenix Champion Victrix""" Apothecary Fabius + artificer armour + power sword """The Emperor's Pride"" Spartan Assault Tank + Flare Shield" Lord Commander Eidolon + Jump Pack Legion champion + artificer armour + power fist + jump pack + refractor field 10 Palatine Blades + 3 Phoenix Power Spears + Melta Bombs + Jump Packs """Praetor Teleos"" + Cataphractii Armour + Paragon Blade + Volkite Charger + Digi-lasers + Sonic Shrieker" """The Ustalik"" 5 Cataphractii Terminators ""Sergeant Brutus""" 1 x Combi-plasma + Chainfist (Vet Sergeant) 3 x Combi-plasma + Power Axe 1x Reaper Autocannon + Power axe Anvillus pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod """ Squad Parthica"" 5 Tartaros Terminators ""Sergeant Maximus""" 1 x Combi-bolter + Phoenix Power Spear (Vet Sergeant) 1 x Plasma Blaster + Chainfist 3 x Combi-bolters + Chainfist 10 Veteran Tactical Marines + Sniper + 2 Plasma Guns 10 Legion Terminators + Cataphractii armour + Grenade harness Combi plasma + power fist Combi plasma + chain fist Combi plasma + lightning claw Pair of lightning claws Plasma blaster + chainfist Combi plasma + power fist Combi plasma + chain fist Combi plasma + lightning claw Pair of lightning claws Plasma blaster + chainfist """Brother Flavius"" Contemptor Dreadnough + 2 x Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons" Contemptor Dreadnought + 2 Twin-linked Volkite Calivers Contemptor + Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon 3 Quad Mortars 16 man tac squad + extra combat weapons + vox + vexilia + artificer + power weapon 16 man tac squad + extra combat weapons + vox + vexilia + artificer + lightning claw "Tactical Support Squad x 9 + 9 Plasma guns + ""Sergeant "" + Artificer Armour " "Tactical Support Squad Cyrenaica x 8 + 8 Volkite Calivers + ""Sergeant Titus"" Artificer Armour " """The Enlightened - The Kakophoni"" 9 Chora + 1 Orchestrator" """The Kakophoni"" 9 Chora + 1 Orchestrator" """Xerxes"" Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter + 6 Kraken penetrator heavy missiles + Battle Servitor Control + Ground-tracking auguries" Consul + Siege Breaker + Artificer Armour + Combi-Plasma Heavy Support Squad x 10 + 10 Lascannons """Sarissa"" Deimos vindicator laser destroyer + armoured ceramite" Scorpius Whirlwind Deredeo + plasma cannonade + aeolos missiles + pavise Leviathan Siege Dreadnought + Phosphex Launcher Legion Glaive Super-Heavy Special Weapons Tank + Armoured Ceramite Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/#findComment-4250110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I'd say Venator - amazing tank. Gorgeous model, fast so it fits the fluid EC theme and shuts down super heavies like no other. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/#findComment-4250112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 *long whistle* Not bad. :) Btw, you totally should name your lascannon Heavy Support Squad the "Sun-Killers" (p. 107 of Betrayal). Sicaran Venator is a great tank, and being Fast it suits the Emperor's Children. Perfect for shutting down Super-heavies. Achilles-Alpha is a great model, and it can be fielded as either that or a normal Achilles (due to having both sponson options included). Cool tank, but not sure it's what you need. Personally, the jury is still out on dakka Leviathans. You have one already, and I assume it's with the claw/drill setup? That is how I'd run them (in a pod). Actually, you could probably do with some Dreadnought Drop Pods in your army more than the 3 vehicles you've mentioned. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/#findComment-4250114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
01RTB01 Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 Cheers folks :) My current leviathan is with claw and drill. I do need some dreadnought drop pods but why buy a pod when I could get another tank?! :p I need to get the newer units named and indeed there's a bit of painting to be done. First tac squad is paint in progress and I'm hoping this time next year, most is finished painting. We shall see! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/#findComment-4250119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 The Leviathan, imo, should be equipped with a Claw and the 6 shot cannon. Anyways, I'd say get the Venator. You're able to play in larger games so defence against Super Heavies is always nice! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/#findComment-4250977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
01RTB01 Posted December 13, 2015 Author Share Posted December 13, 2015 I don't think there's a bad setup with the leviathan. I tend to use mine for super heavy or multi wound nasty slaying. Pod in, round of dakka then smash! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/#findComment-4251031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 If you're in 30k and not using the GRAV FLUX BOMBARD then you are certainly doing it wrong :P I kid though, but for me the dread wins out over a silly box anytime. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/#findComment-4251903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 The Leviathan, imo, should be equipped with a Claw and the 6 shot cannon. Anyways, I'd say get the Venator. You're able to play in larger games so defence against Super Heavies is always nice! Why would you bother with that cannon in 30K? There are way better sources of AP3 fire. Charlo has the right of it, if you aren't using the Grav Flux Bombard, you are doing it wrong, and not only because the thing looks cool and has silly good rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/#findComment-4252010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Grav Flux bombard is a rubbish choice! I'm not taking the cannon just to kill Marines, I'm taking it to glance a transport to death before I charge it's contents. It has Sunder, it's great for dealing with light vehicles and being a nuisance to your opponent should you get behind his lines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/#findComment-4252070 Share on other sites More sharing options...
01RTB01 Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 Can't kill a transport then charge the contents with the leviathan :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/#findComment-4252078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 If you're using this huge behemoth to take out light vehicles in 30k it just seems a waste... The Grab weapon is a large blast of crazy death, hell it has more chance of hurting AV14 than the Cannon ;) Plus if you are charing a light transport won't the melta gun in the fist do the job? Maybe a bit more hit and miss bit still. @0RTB yes you can, just like everything else, surely? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/#findComment-4252081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Why would you be using the Leviathan to charge the Contents of a Non-Av 14 Vehicle? They're usually PA Marines or equivalent. What this bad boy wants to Charge is TEQ or Higher. And guess what the Grav Flux Bombard Deals with Handily? TEQ. And popping their Transport would usually be relegated to a unit dedicated to the Task, not the actual Leviathan. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/#findComment-4252082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
zedmeister Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Aye, a 300+ point deathstar killer gunning down rhinos and chasing basic marines seems a bit of a waste. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/#findComment-4252095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 If you're only using this to charge TEQ or higher, you'll find yourself without a target pretty soon. Your opponent isn't a particularly good one if he allows his ace cc unit to be charged by a model that can only move 6" in one turn. If this dropped in my deployment zone, my TEQ unit would simply move up 12 - 18" away in their transport, whilst my heavy supports dealt with the Leviathan with shooting. He could, however, target my Rhinos and leave my Marines stranded far away from objectives and then charge them if no better target presents itself. It's clear that this model will spend the vast majority of the time engaging MEQ and light transports, with the occasional battle against another Dread or a character. You only need to gun down 2 Rhinos and charge a big Tac squad to make your points back. If you cause enough damage to your opponent's backfield perhaps he might divert more elite forces to deal with the Dread. In truth I don't see this Dread as a death star killer at all - He's much too slow to get to one and easy to destroy/cripple. His immense ability in cc is more to deter your typical cc powerhouse from charging him or getting close in the first place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/#findComment-4252099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
01RTB01 Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 If you're using this huge behemoth to take out light vehicles in 30k it just seems a waste... The Grab weapon is a large blast of crazy death, hell it has more chance of hurting AV14 than the Cannon ;) Plus if you are charing a light transport won't the melta gun in the fist do the job? Maybe a bit more hit and miss bit still. @0RTB yes you can, just like everything else, surely? You can only charge what you shoot. Therefore if the leviathan shoots transport to death it can't then charge contents. If other stuff kills the transport its fair game :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/#findComment-4252110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 If you're using this huge behemoth to take out light vehicles in 30k it just seems a waste... The Grab weapon is a large blast of crazy death, hell it has more chance of hurting AV14 than the Cannon ;) Plus if you are charing a light transport won't the melta gun in the fist do the job? Maybe a bit more hit and miss bit still. @0RTB yes you can, just like everything else, surely? You can only charge what you shoot. Therefore if the leviathan shoots transport to death it can't then charge contents. If other stuff kills the transport its fair game :) This is incorrect. If you destroy a transport you can change it's contents. A specific exception exists for this situation. UNLESS this rule changed from 6th to 7th, which I'm sure it didn't. I'll check the BRB when I get home. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/#findComment-4252111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 If you're only using this to charge TEQ or higher, you'll find yourself without a target pretty soon. Your opponent isn't a particularly good one if he allows his ace cc unit to be charged by a model that can only move 6" in one turn. If this dropped in my deployment zone, my TEQ unit would simply move up 12 - 18" away in their transport, whilst my heavy supports dealt with the Leviathan with shooting. He could, however, target my Rhinos and leave my Marines stranded far away from objectives and then charge them if no better target presents itself. It's clear that this model will spend the vast majority of the time engaging MEQ and light transports, with the occasional battle against another Dread or a character. You only need to gun down 2 Rhinos and charge a big Tac squad to make your points back. If you cause enough damage to your opponent's backfield perhaps he might divert more elite forces to deal with the Dread. In truth I don't see this Dread as a death star killer at all - He's much too slow to get to one and easy to destroy/cripple. His immense ability in cc is more to deter your typical cc powerhouse from charging him or getting close in the first place. I'm pretty sure the real purpose for the Leviathan is anti-battle automata. It was secretly developed on Terra away from Mechanicum eyes... Hmmm. Hmmmmmmmm. The Storm Cannon makes a lot of sense when it's firing at Castellax/Thallax/Vorax etc, as does the multi-wound claw. If you know someone running a Praevian unit that's been giving you trouble... And yeah, you can charge the contents of a transport you destroy. That's definitely a thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/#findComment-4252124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Well, it would definitely be good against the Mechanicum - specifically the Castellax Battle Automata. I'd still take the 6 shot cannon to soften them up from inside my Pod before I could charge! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/#findComment-4252134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 p 424 = If a Transport is destroyed by a shooting attack, any unit that shot it that turn can, if allowed, charge the now disembarked passengers. Grav Bombard rubbish? You are clearly a crazy person, there is nothing further for us to discuss. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/#findComment-4252146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 And we'll also avoid going into the realm of Personal Attacks. Even when one disagrees with another, we do it in a respectful manner. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/#findComment-4252152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
01RTB01 Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 Thanks for the reference. Venator still the winner?... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/#findComment-4252155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Calling someone crazy is not a personal attack when we have objective evidence of their insanity. :P If you don't already have one, and play at larger game sizes (as 8000 points would suggest), then yes, definitely get a Venator. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/#findComment-4252160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 The Grav Bombard is pretty great for dealing with infantry, yes. That's not something the Legions generally struggle with, however. I'd rather pop a transport reliably then charge it's content. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317051-new-purchase-achilles-alpha-venator-or-dakka-leviathan/#findComment-4252283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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