[HH1.0] Dark Angels Tactics

[depthcharge12]

 

So after seeing rawenwing protocols rite of war, you are not allowed to have non skimers/flyer units, infantry must be in flyers, BUT you are allowed to have artilery units in it that are on board, makes total sense,lol

That is a huge oversight by FW. Hahahaha

You know there's going to be THAT GUY that takes quad mortars in a RW list...

[Lord Blackwood]

me ,  Im that guy 

[depthcharge12]

me , Im that guy

I have forgiveness in my heart because I believe you can change...the Interrogator-Chaplains, however, don't...

[Fallen11]

Yea, I shot down my friends thunderhawk after it arrived with my primaris lightning last weekend. 910 pts transport gone poof, and 23 out of 27 veterans die from inside him, and he was looking into intercept AA options he could take. And I kept telling him you can't have any, because I was looking at legion jetbike rite of war, where it clearly states that you can't take non flyer/skimmer vehichles, only jetbikes can be taken, and troops must be in transport, but apart from those unit's you can't take anything else. And he kept telling me but I can have arty -> platforms with AA in ravenwing,lol, which made 0 sense to me, until I looked it up. And yes, it's oversight, but if someone wants to take bunch of quad mortars or skyfire batteries in his ravenwing, he is allowed.

 

btw. from what he saw, when he comes with thunderhawk, next turn he can land to unload troops, and in same turn after everyone is out, just fly off the board, so that you don't kill him because he is skimmer with ravenwing protocols ROW?

[rendingon1+]

 

me , Im that guy

I have forgiveness in my heart because I believe you can change...the Redemptors, however, don't...

 

Fixed!

[depthcharge12]

 

 

 

me , Im that guy

I have forgiveness in my heart because I believe you can change...the Redemptors, however, don't...

Fixed!

Thank you brother, my grammatical error is nothing but base heresy, I am no better than the arch heretic Horus himself. I shall go flagellate myself now as penance....;.(

[rendingon1+]

 

 

 

me , Im that guy

I have forgiveness in my heart because I believe you can change...the Redemptors, however, don't...

Fixed!

Thank you brother, my grammatical error is nothing but base heresy, I am no better than the arch heretic Horus himself. I shall go flagellate myself now as penance....;.(

 

No need to do that! You've been very loyal astartes after all.

In fact, you have been promoted to sergeant!

Sergeant instructor.

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.

.

.

.

.

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On Caliban.

Go now.

[Withershadow]

Be careful, too much self-flagellation will make you go blind.

[depthcharge12]

Be careful, too much self-flagellation will make you go blind.

I thought it gave you hairy paws like a Wulfen?

[rendingon1+]

er..guys? Tactics?
Mayby we can at least wishlist about Angelus? hm?

....

[1ncarnadine]

er..guys? Tactics?

Mayby we can at least wishlist about Angelus? hm?

....

 

I guess I have some tactics questions to steer it around!

 

How has experience been gearing out Outriders for assault under Ravenwing? It's been brought up before, but I don't think I've seen much feedback on real experience on them. To my eyes it looks like you guys are set up with the best assault Outriders in the game? Are Molecular Acid Jetbikers just a lot more effective when it comes down to listbuilding?

 

Pros:

-Scout!

-T5

-Great power weapon access

-Rad Grenades from Scour the Land

-Will also benefit from Mastery of the Blade and Hunt Them Down

 

Cons:

-no access to combi-weapons for Stasis Grenades (but can get bonus from other units)

-3+ save

-incredibly expensive if you do gear with plasma

 

Feels like they're begging to have a character attached who does have a 2+ save and can then tank, possibly an Apothecary? The Apothecary also addresses survivability, can take a combi-weapon for Stasis, and can add another power weapon to the unit (which can be a Calibanite War Blade, so +1S vs -1T from rad grenades). Seems like these are pretty premier objective grabbers and holders?

[depthcharge12]

I think the best usage for regular bikes is likely a command squad. They already have a 2+ so you're not paying for something you already have like a jetbike, and they have access to more close combat weapons, shields, etc.

[Charlo]

I think the best usage for regular bikes is likely a command squad. They already have a 2+ so you're not paying for something you already have like a jetbike, and they have access to more close combat weapons, shields, etc.

 

Yeah this makes a helluva lot of sense. But you don't get the majesty of Acid Bolters...

[depthcharge12]

 

 

I think the best usage for regular bikes is likely a command squad. They already have a 2+ so you're not paying for something you already have like a jetbike, and they have access to more close combat weapons, shields, etc.

Yeah this makes a helluva lot of sense. But you don't get the majesty of Acid Bolters...

But then you don't have to deal with two pages of rules quandary in a which we all called each other heretics....so there is a silver lining ;) lol

 

I think there's not just the cost of the 5 points for the acid heavy bolters but also the cost of the jetbike over the regular bike. While I love AHBs, I think they should be kept to your jetbike squads as you'll want your command squad jinking and maneuvering as much as possible to get into combat. Just my $.02.

 

You'd save what, 10 points per bike plus 5 for AHBs if you stick with the regular bike over jetbikes (command squad), so 15 x 5 = 75, so now you have almost enough points to be rolling an attack bike squad with acid heavy bolters.

[Lord Blackwood]

I disagree here with depthcharge , though I  definitely see the merit to his point. 

I really like my command squad on jetbikes  because Acid bolters are just that good.  I love them.  I. love. them. 

For my Regular outriders I  have two sets
the plasma ones
and the 2 power weapons and warblade / rad grenades on  the  sargent (which has preformed well enough. really wish you could get the artificer armor on the sargent though ) 

The Plasma ones have performed well 2 / 6 games
The Melee ones have performed well  4 /6 games   

Not having to lean on their shooting means you can be a bit more ballsy with  em , make them choose between a unit that can and will mulch their troops with superior  hitting and wounding as well as 3 power weapons  , or the rain of acid heavy bolters that can threaten their other stuff. 

I think  maybe if you just want bodies run the assault oriented squads 230 for a decent set up  is solid enough. 

Though to toss something else into the ring

How do we feel about the Sky Slayer jetbikes with multi meltas?  Are we taking them ?   Are we running them up the board raw  , or are we deep striking them? 

[Charlo]

Multimeltas are so contentious for me, mainly due to the ceramited 31st millennium.

 

It's very hard to look past that not everything is a flare shield ceramite spartan etc.

 

But, in reality that 24" Melta threat range is insanity and the likes of Knights, Vindicator, Sicaran even automata will feel the burn.

[1ncarnadine]

Multimeltas are so contentious for me, mainly due to the ceramited 31st millennium.

 

It's very hard to look past that not everything is a flare shield ceramite spartan etc.

 

But, in reality that 24" Melta threat range is insanity and the likes of Knights, Vindicator, Sicaran even automata will feel the burn.

 

Oh yes, plus Scorpius, Medusae, and the odd Dreadnought, too! And soon there are going to be those Custodes grav-tanks around that are incredibly vulnerable to something Deep Striking in their rear. Or, you can attempt to deep strike near and melt a chunk of a unit with T4 and 2W that's been caught out, and Jink to mitigate retaliatory shooting.

 

I really like the idea, but a list will probably still need something that actually can deal with Spartans & equivalent vehicles reliably. Multi-meltas are just not that tool.

 

Keep in mind that If you're going full-bore Ravenwing, it doesn't look like there are many other options in Heavy Support anyway? I think it's just these dudes, Caestus Rams, Fire Raptors and Kharybdis Claws right now. Until Grav-raiders become available, fingers crossed...

[rendingon1+]

Skyslayers - deep strike them, unless you have means of going first. In my first RW attempts I fielded them near the front edge of my deployment zone where they often died to lascannon fire/infiltrators because I rolled bad and coudn't size. Deep striking is safer when you have jetbiker/biker forgelord* with nuncio. Don't be afraid of armoured ceramite (as Charlo pointed out) only spartans/superheavies/leviathans use it (in my meta), people are often convinced that you're thinking they gonna take armour ceramite so you won't invest in melta. Armoured Ceramite is a game of bluff :) 

P.S I almost always use divination librarian for big/expensive units. Skyslayers are one of these. Each one (melta) has only one shot and you definitely don't want them wasted.

 

*Biker forgelord is awesome. I take mine with nuncio for no scatter, terranic gs/caliban warblade, refractor + familiar and combi grenade. He's one of the best duelists avialable (thanks to servo arm, T5 and 4++).

 

Dealing with spartans - gravs/kraken, meltabombs. Nothing else reliable imho. Unless you invest in dreadclaw and dedicated antiav14 sinfantry (machinekiller vets, chainfist termies). Spartans are not the worst - typhons are.

[Lord Blackwood]

I feel  some time down the line that a jetbike Forgelord is a thing I will convert up , and  I need to build a primus medicae on a jetbike

Luckily for us , the Ravenwing Black Knight box has bits to make an apothecary  

I used two of those boxes to make my plasma outriders and two boxes of regular ravenwing bikers to make my  fighty outriders , i  cant even express how great they are for bits 

[Agni]

Yea, I shot down my friends thunderhawk after it arrived with my primaris lightning last weekend. 910 pts transport gone poof, and 23 out of 27 veterans die from inside him, and he was looking into intercept AA options he could take. And I kept telling him you can't have any, because I was looking at legion jetbike rite of war, where it clearly states that you can't take non flyer/skimmer vehichles, only jetbikes can be taken, and troops must be in transport, but apart from those unit's you can't take anything else. And he kept telling me but I can have arty -> platforms with AA in ravenwing,lol, which made 0 sense to me, until I looked it up. And yes, it's oversight, but if someone wants to take bunch of quad mortars or skyfire batteries in his ravenwing, he is allowed.

 

btw. from what he saw, when he comes with thunderhawk, next turn he can land to unload troops, and in same turn after everyone is out, just fly off the board, so that you don't kill him because he is skimmer with ravenwing protocols ROW?

You can't take rapier. Yes its artillery, but crew is infantry. You can take them only in kharybdis

[rendingon1+]

 

Yea, I shot down my friends thunderhawk after it arrived with my primaris lightning last weekend. 910 pts transport gone poof, and 23 out of 27 veterans die from inside him, and he was looking into intercept AA options he could take. And I kept telling him you can't have any, because I was looking at legion jetbike rite of war, where it clearly states that you can't take non flyer/skimmer vehichles, only jetbikes can be taken, and troops must be in transport, but apart from those unit's you can't take anything else. And he kept telling me but I can have arty -> platforms with AA in ravenwing,lol, which made 0 sense to me, until I looked it up. And yes, it's oversight, but if someone wants to take bunch of quad mortars or skyfire batteries in his ravenwing, he is allowed.

 

btw. from what he saw, when he comes with thunderhawk, next turn he can land to unload troops, and in same turn after everyone is out, just fly off the board, so that you don't kill him because he is skimmer with ravenwing protocols ROW?

You can't take rapier. Yes its artillery, but crew is infantry. You can take them only in kharybdis

 

Unit type is artillery. Only infantry units (not models) must begin game in flyers.

[Erren]

 

Yea, I shot down my friends thunderhawk after it arrived with my primaris lightning last weekend. 910 pts transport gone poof, and 23 out of 27 veterans die from inside him, and he was looking into intercept AA options he could take. And I kept telling him you can't have any, because I was looking at legion jetbike rite of war, where it clearly states that you can't take non flyer/skimmer vehichles, only jetbikes can be taken, and troops must be in transport, but apart from those unit's you can't take anything else. And he kept telling me but I can have arty -> platforms with AA in ravenwing,lol, which made 0 sense to me, until I looked it up. And yes, it's oversight, but if someone wants to take bunch of quad mortars or skyfire batteries in his ravenwing, he is allowed.

 

btw. from what he saw, when he comes with thunderhawk, next turn he can land to unload troops, and in same turn after everyone is out, just fly off the board, so that you don't kill him because he is skimmer with ravenwing protocols ROW?

You can't take rapier. Yes its artillery, but crew is infantry. You can take them only in kharybdis

 

I've fought this battle before and have always been shouted down, Agni.   I doubt you'll fair better.  It says right there on the page that the crew are Unit Type infantry. But the argument will be made that the BRB doesn't allow for this to happen and general overrules specific or something.

[Agni]

 

 

 

Yea, I shot down my friends thunderhawk after it arrived with my primaris lightning last weekend. 910 pts transport gone poof, and 23 out of 27 veterans die from inside him, and he was looking into intercept AA options he could take. And I kept telling him you can't have any, because I was looking at legion jetbike rite of war, where it clearly states that you can't take non flyer/skimmer vehichles, only jetbikes can be taken, and troops must be in transport, but apart from those unit's you can't take anything else. And he kept telling me but I can have arty -> platforms with AA in ravenwing,lol, which made 0 sense to me, until I looked it up. And yes, it's oversight, but if someone wants to take bunch of quad mortars or skyfire batteries in his ravenwing, he is allowed.

 

btw. from what he saw, when he comes with thunderhawk, next turn he can land to unload troops, and in same turn after everyone is out, just fly off the board, so that you don't kill him because he is skimmer with ravenwing protocols ROW?

You can't take rapier. Yes its artillery, but crew is infantry. You can take them only in kharybdis

I've fought this battle before and have always been shouted down, Agni. I doubt you'll fair better. It says right there on the page that the crew are Unit Type infantry. But the argument will be made that the BRB doesn't allow for this to happen and general overrules specific or something.

Good for us =) but total violation of the background

[Sulemain]

Rad Grenades on Attack Bikes with Autocannons is hilarious fun on Overwatch. 

[The Ironic Warrior]

I must say, just played a Dark Angels Ironwing list today (3000pts) and goodness gracious me the +1 to hit in close combat is nasty! 10 man vet squad got whittled down by a 10 man tactical squad over a few turns just because I couldn't put enough wounds out. Also Tank Hunter on all Dreadnoughts mean Crash-Compactor (Grav Flux Bombard) Leviathans are surprisingly nasty at hunting vehicles with their anti-infantry weapon of doom.....

 

Nice benefits, just a shame I can't paint chequered designs