[HH1.0] Dark Angels Tactics

[Fallen11]

How exactly do 10 tacticals beat 10 veterans, unless you have luck on your side, even with +1 to hit?

 

10 veterans - 30 attacks - 15 hits

10 tacticals with extra ccw - 20 attacks(hitting on 3+) - 13,2 hits

[Slips]

RNGesus is a fickle god.

[Aeternus]

For a Contemptor, do any of you ever load it with heavy bolters to get the acid shells, or is it a waste given the (relatively) low number of shots it pumps out compared to heavy bolter support squads?

 

Also, what would the best load out for a contemptor be in the Ironwing RoW? Had been thinking about a AS heavy bolter and CCW with plas, but felt it would be wise to defer to you more vaunted members of the first.

 

Cheers for any advice :) 

[Erren]

I really hope they revamp the Ironwing rules in Book VIII to make it easier to bring dreads.

 

ASHB would be fluffy sure, but not really taking advantage of Tank Hunter. I don't really like walking CC dreads, but if you're going to put a CCW on him, stick a grav gun in there. I'd probably make him a Mortis though with Lascannons or Kheres.

[1ncarnadine]

I'd avoid plasma blasters on dreads, period. No save vs Gets Hot is bad and you stand to lose two hull points on an incredibly terrible roll vs maybe killing 40-80 points of terminator or worse. Stick to flamer, grav or melta gun.

[Aeternus]

Thanks both for the replies :)

 

@Erren. What do you think about a cortus cc load out? CCW/Chainfist with Tank Hunters, plus the +1 init, for a cheaper cost. Or is a S10 armorbane weapon with Tank Hunters just...overkill?

 

@LetsYouDown. Fair enough, melta with tank hunters should be able to deal decent damage. Do you know if Tank Hunter lets you reroll the haywire die on a grav gun?

[Erren]

I'll be honest, I haven't tried running a CC Contemptor Cortus across the field. If it gets to a target, it'll be great. I'd proxy it a few times to see how it does with the type of terrain you would normally play with (lots of LOS-blocking terrain should help).

 

6 Attacks on the charge S10 AP1 Tank Hunter Armourbane is not at all overkill. It just means this can try for tougher targets.

 

Per the most recent FAQ, Haywire rolls aren't armour pen rolls, so they aren't affected by Tank Hunter.

[Agni]

I tried two cortus with dual ccw and grav. They are awesome. With their boost to move and run and charge

[Ficinus]

For Ironing, you want to go with the Kheres or dual Kheres, since tank hunter makes it insanely good (at least in mathhammer).

 

Dual Kheres vs AV13: 12 shots, 10 hits, 3.06 rends, 2.72 pens and .34 glances

Vs AV 14: 12 shots, 10 hits, 3.06 rends, 1.36 pens and 1.36 glances (assuming you don't reroll the D3s that result in glances)

Vs AV 14 with flare shield: 12 shots, 10 hits, 3.06 rends, 1.7 glances.

 

So you can wreck a Sicaran, put almost three hull points on a Land Raider, or almost two on a Spartan. On top of that, it's also a decent anti-infantry weapon if there are no good armour targets in range.

[Caillum]

I was thinking this could be a fun list for Ironwing...

 

HQ

Delegatus: Rite of War (Ironwing Protocol); artificer armour; Terranic greatsword (master-crafted); bolter; melta bombs; boarding shield 107

 

TROOPS

10 Tactical Space Marines: Tactical Sergeant (artificer armour; Calibanite war blade); 9 Tactical Space Marines; chainswords; legion vexilla 175

• Rhino: pintle-mounted multi-melta 50

10 Tactical Space Marines: Tactical Sergeant (artificer armour; Calibanite war blade); 9 Tactical Space Marines; chainswords; legion vexilla 175

• Rhino: pintle-mounted multi-melta 50

 

ELITES

9 Veteran Space Marines: Veteran Sergeant (artificer armour; Calibanite war blade); Marksmen; 8 Veteran Space Marines; legion vexilla 178

• Rhino: pintle-mounted multi-melta 50

Contemptor-Cortus Class Dreadnought Talon

• Contemptor-Cortus Dreadnought: twin-linked heavy bolter (molecular acid shells); Dreadnought chainfist 150

• Contemptor-Cortus Dreadnought: twin-linked heavy bolter (molecular acid shells); Dreadnought chainfist 150

• Contemptor-Cortus Dreadnought: twin-linked heavy bolter (molecular acid shells); Dreadnought chainfist 150

Contemptor-Cortus Class Dreadnought Talon

• Contemptor-Cortus Dreadnought: twin-linked heavy bolter (molecular acid shells); Dreadnought chainfist 150

• Contemptor-Cortus Dreadnought: twin-linked heavy bolter (molecular acid shells); Dreadnought chainfist 150

• Contemptor-Cortus Dreadnought: twin-linked heavy bolter (molecular acid shells); Dreadnought chainfist 150

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

Predator Strike Squadron

• Predator: Squadron Command Tank; turret-mounted Executioner plasma destroyer; pintle-mounted combi-plasma 170

• Predator: turret-mounted Executioner plasma destroyer; pintle-mounted combi-plasma 135

• Predator: turret-mounted Executioner plasma destroyer; pintle-mounted combi-plasma 135

Vindicator Siege Tank Squadron

• Vindicator: hull-mounted laser destroyer array 130

• Vindicator: hull-mounted laser destroyer array 130

Whirlwind Scorpius xxx

 

2,500 points

 

I know Dreadnoughts with heavy bolters are simply the worst thing in the world, but on a Cortus having a twin-linked weapon helps mitigate BS4, and molecular acid shells can be a nasty surprise (even if it's not en-masse like it is on Scimitars). And having 6 Dreads on the board is sexy, especially with Fear & Tank Hunters.

 

The Heavy Support choices are easily changed, as long as they are Tanks.

 

At 3k I would add a Damocles and another Cortus Talon for maximum Dread action. :)

[Purge the Daemon]

I was thinking this could be a fun list for Ironwing...

 

HQ

Delegatus: Rite of War (Ironwing Protocol); artificer armour; Terranic greatsword (master-crafted); bolter; melta bombs; boarding shield 107

 

TROOPS

10 Tactical Space Marines: Tactical Sergeant (artificer armour; Calibanite war blade); 9 Tactical Space Marines; chainswords; legion vexilla 175

• Rhino: pintle-mounted multi-melta 50

10 Tactical Space Marines: Tactical Sergeant (artificer armour; Calibanite war blade); 9 Tactical Space Marines; chainswords; legion vexilla 175

• Rhino: pintle-mounted multi-melta 50

 

ELITES

9 Veteran Space Marines: Veteran Sergeant (artificer armour; Calibanite war blade); Marksmen; 8 Veteran Space Marines; legion vexilla 178

• Rhino: pintle-mounted multi-melta 50

Contemptor-Cortus Class Dreadnought Talon

• Contemptor-Cortus Dreadnought: twin-linked heavy bolter (molecular acid shells); Dreadnought chainfist 150

• Contemptor-Cortus Dreadnought: twin-linked heavy bolter (molecular acid shells); Dreadnought chainfist 150

• Contemptor-Cortus Dreadnought: twin-linked heavy bolter (molecular acid shells); Dreadnought chainfist 150

Contemptor-Cortus Class Dreadnought Talon

• Contemptor-Cortus Dreadnought: twin-linked heavy bolter (molecular acid shells); Dreadnought chainfist 150

• Contemptor-Cortus Dreadnought: twin-linked heavy bolter (molecular acid shells); Dreadnought chainfist 150

• Contemptor-Cortus Dreadnought: twin-linked heavy bolter (molecular acid shells); Dreadnought chainfist 150

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

Predator Strike Squadron

• Predator: Squadron Command Tank; turret-mounted Executioner plasma destroyer; pintle-mounted combi-plasma 170

• Predator: turret-mounted Executioner plasma destroyer; pintle-mounted combi-plasma 135

• Predator: turret-mounted Executioner plasma destroyer; pintle-mounted combi-plasma 135

Vindicator Siege Tank Squadron

• Vindicator: hull-mounted laser destroyer array 130

• Vindicator: hull-mounted laser destroyer array 130

Whirlwind Scorpius xxx

 

2,500 points

 

I know Dreadnoughts with heavy bolters are simply the worst thing in the world, but on a Cortus having a twin-linked weapon helps mitigate BS4, and molecular acid shells can be a nasty surprise (even if it's not en-masse like it is on Scimitars). And having 6 Dreads on the board is sexy, especially with Fear & Tank Hunters.

 

The Heavy Support choices are easily changed, as long as they are Tanks.

 

At 3k I would add a Damocles and another Cortus Talon for maximum Dread action. :)

Honestly even acid shells don't salvage dread heavy bolters they are just way to expensive a fire base for them.

[cypherthefallenangel]

Uber-grit is better on vets than tacs if it's one or the other. Both is best. I personally always take it on all units that I can but that's just me. Despoilers rule!!

[Charlo]

If Dread Heavy Bolters got 6 shots, because of the Acid it would be a worth contender with Kheres.

 

But naw.

[Allart01]

Dreads can't take acid rounds, because they don't have LA: Dark Angels.

[Aeternus]

Dreads can't take acid rounds, because they don't have LA: Dark Angels.

However acid rounds can be taken by models with LA: Dark Angels, and dreadnoughts. Just not tanks or flyers

[shandwen]

The autocannons are probably a much better choice on regular dreads in particular, but also on contemptors. You need units left alive at the end of the game and longer range dreads give you more of a chance of success at that.

[Aeternus]

For a ravenwing list, in the troops would it be better to go for larger units of Jetbikes for the better output and relatively harder to kill nature, or go for more small/min sized units to make the Covenant of Death Vps (possibly) harder to get, and have more presence around the field.

 

For reference - 15 Jetbikes (not including command, hqs). Split into 5 units of 3, 4 units, 3 units, or 2 large ones?

 

Rest of the list at this stage is just the command section, a lightning, and a fire raptor. Looking into expanding with either another of those flyers, or a caestus with Terminators.

[shakespear]

I picked up Betrayal at Calth and the FW DA upgrade packs. What should I add next? 

[Erren]

I picked up Betrayal at Calth and the FW DA upgrade packs. What should I add next?

 

A couple or three rhinos for those troops to ride in. You're going to need to decide if you want to build towards a specific rite of war. If you are, then that'll dictate where to go.

[Charlo]

The autocannons are probably a much better choice on regular dreads in particular, but also on contemptors. You need units left alive at the end of the game and longer range dreads give you more of a chance of success at that.

But paying all those points for two - four shots is absolute awful.

 

You can get that same output on a single Predator for a fraction of the points. Sure it's in Heavy support but you get me. But I suppose it's not as accurate! Bit you bring two instead...!

[shakespear]

What are the "rites of war"?

[Aeternus]

You start off with your standard CAD, or hq + 2 troops. Then in lieu of formations, you can take 'rites of war' to customise your list to fit your legion.

 

A rite of war essentially gives your army benefits, but usually with drawbacks. They're designed to emulate each legion, with the two DA ones showing the two wings - Ravenwing (heavily focused on bikes and speed) and Ironwing (heavily focused on tanks).

 

Each Rite of War will give you a number of benefits, but usually also changing some elements of the CAD or what you can take in the CAD.

 

For instance Ravenwing Protocol for DA makes your compulsory troops either Jetbikes or bikes - this means you can't take tac squads or assaults to fill the required two slots, only Jetbikes or bikes. Next you can only take HQs on bikes or Jetbikes. The only vehicles allowed are flyers or skimmers, and any infantry must start the game in a flyer.

 

Those are the 'drawbacks'. However similar to a formation it also gives you bonuses - IC can reroll wounds against T5 or above. All characters can take rad grenades. You get bonuses to sweeping advances and you can take your Jetbikes off the board. Usually most RoW also mean you can't take an allied detachment, though some let you.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Aeternas

[shakespear]

Ironwing sounds awesome. I've fielded anything like it

[shandwen]

 

The autocannons are probably a much better choice on regular dreads in particular, but also on contemptors. You need units left alive at the end of the game and longer range dreads give you more of a chance of success at that.

But paying all those points for two - four shots is absolute awful.

 

You can get that same output on a single Predator for a fraction of the points. Sure it's in Heavy support but you get me. But I suppose it's not as accurate! Bit you bring two instead...!

I will fully admit it isnt super point efficient, but in an ironwing list you will have all your heavy slots full of tanks and dreads take one slot to give you three units, which is an effective way of having extra units to not loose by Dark Angels rules.

[Charlo]

 

 

The autocannons are probably a much better choice on regular dreads in particular, but also on contemptors. You need units left alive at the end of the game and longer range dreads give you more of a chance of success at that.

But paying all those points for two - four shots is absolute awful.

 

You can get that same output on a single Predator for a fraction of the points. Sure it's in Heavy support but you get me. But I suppose it's not as accurate! Bit you bring two instead...!

I will fully admit it isnt super point efficient, but in an ironwing list you will have all your heavy slots full of tanks and dreads take one slot to give you three units, which is an effective way of having extra units to not loose by Dark Angels rules.

 

Totally agree on that front!