[HH1.0] Dark Angels Tactics

[depthcharge12]

What do you guys think about running multi meltas on rhinos for your IW infantry squads? Makes more use and damage potential for your basic tactical squads that won't be doing much.

 

Does anyone else feel like they don't have enough points or slots to fill everything you want in an IW list either? Haha :D

[Caillum]

IMHO, if you're taking Rhinos (for any Legion), then multi-meltas are mandatory. They may as well make them 50 points with one included by default. :)

 

When I listhammer "Ironwing Protocols", I find points/slots pretty much fine, as long as I take 3 Tanks for my Heavy Support slots:

- HQ is doable, as while you need a Praetor/Delegatus, this can be balanced with a Damocles easily enough (provided you can utilise it effectively).

- Troops are fine, as you can just take Tanks as Dedicated Transports to balance them out.

- Elites are where you get your Dreadnoughts with Tank Hunters. These will have to be footslogging, as if you take any Dreadpods, then you need even more Tanks. Also, Sniper Vets (in melta Rhinos :P) can Outflank effectively with the aforementioned Damocles. Add heavy bolters with molecular acid shells to taste.

- Fast Attack is tricky, as Seekers are the only option that can take a Tank as a DT to balance.

- Like I said, Heavy Support is the key. Only here will you find Tanks as a straight unit choice without needing a parent unit. If you take something other than a Tank, then you will lose flexibility elsewhere in the list. (As much as a Leviathan with Tank Hunters is a sexy thought, you'll also want a Dreadpod, which means you lose a lot for it).

- Lords of War requires an FAQ. Super-heavy Vehicles (not including the Flyers) should clearly count as a Tank for purposes of the RoW, but not everyone will be cool with that, because RAW.

 

It's a tricky Rite of War, as is "Ravenwing Protocols", but it is my favourite Dark Angels flavour. :)

[depthcharge12]

Yes I had drawn up a 2500 point IW list, largely because while I'd like to play with RW, it will get boring being limited to only bikes and skimmers. Technically you can't even take dreadnoughts RAW.

 

Here's my list:

 

HQ

Praetor

+ paragon sword, digi weapons, refractor, combi stasis, melta bomb

(As the Praetor will be hitting on 3's before his opponent with the stasis, he can afford to lose some ++)

 

 

Elites

5 terminators

+ 4 PF, 1 CF, 1 plasma blaster

+ Spartan DT w/flare shield

 

10 veterans

+2 power swords, Sgt w/cal blade/combi stasis/AA, 2 MA HBs

+ rhino DT w/MM

 

 

Troops

10 tacticals

+bolt guns

+rhino DT w/MM

 

10 tacticals

+bolt guns

+rhino DT w/MM

 

 

Heavy Support

Leviathan Dreadnought

+Grav flux bombard, phosphex, 2 volkites

(Even though he has TH, the melta Lance would be redundant, and while not likely, the grav with TH can actually be nasty. Plus I need extra anti infantry)

 

2 predators

+ 2 plasma executioners

 

 

LoW

Fell blade super heavy tank

+ legion crew

 

 

My group rules super heavy tanks as counting as tanks because well...derp :P the list has 3 MMs, 8 TL lascannons, a demolisher cannon, fell blade cannon, and a tank hunter Levi with a melta gun and grav. The Levi and the executioners can focus on wiping infantry and pesky rapier batteries.

 

I've found walking Leviathans to survive much longer than podding ones. Most of your opponent's valuable units will want to close the gap with you anyway, so I don't find range to be an issue and you can utilize cover to block LoS.

[depthcharge12]

So if 8th ed gets directly ported over...Ironwing proteii squads will be hilarious. BS5 6 lascannon shots per Proteus that has the TL lascannnon upgrade on it :P

 

Also, if our swords get the AP AND strength bonus, then we just came out on top for cc! Hallelujah dark angels will be meta stronk!!!! :D

[shandwen]

Pffft. Plasma repeaters. They were nasty when in range before, now, well, just plain murder.

[Slips]

Also, Salvo as a rule might be gone replaced with Rapid Fire X instead so you're no longer penalized for moving and shooting with them if thats the case.

[depthcharge12]

Also, Salvo as a rule might be gone replaced with Rapid Fire X instead so you're no longer penalized for moving and shooting with them if thats the case.

That would make me such a happy critter. Ironwing could be getting the best of 8th ed.

[Gorgoff]

 

Also, Salvo as a rule might be gone replaced with Rapid Fire X instead so you're no longer penalized for moving and shooting with them if thats the case.

That would make me such a happy critter. Ironwing could be getting the best of 8th ed.

IF it stays like it is and IF Rite of Wars are still a thing. Remember:

Formations are gone. Therefor it is a huge possibility that ROW vanish too.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

If RoW vanish, half the appeal of 30k games will be gone, for me.

[Gorgoff]

If RoW vanish, half the appeal of 30k games will be gone, for me.

We'll see.

Maybe the 478926 different army building charts can emulate those RoW.

Or they'll stay.

The only reason I meantioned that was that people don't get to psyched about stuff they cannot know how it will work in the new edition.

DA special rule for example. It's useless in the next edition since marines will hit on 3+ anyway. My guess is that a lot of the legions will have different rules. Simpler.

Edit: Another problem just popped up in my head.

There won't be stuff like army wide special rules anymore as it seems.

Marines are Marines.

Since all rules have to be written on the new unit cards -or whatever the :cuss they call it-

you can't have rules like "every dude gets +1BS with Boltguns".

At least that's how I understand it.

Edited May 21, 2017 by Gorgoff

[depthcharge12]

 

 

Also, Salvo as a rule might be gone replaced with Rapid Fire X instead so you're no longer penalized for moving and shooting with them if thats the case.

That would make me such a happy critter. Ironwing could be getting the best of 8th ed.

IF it stays like it is and IF Rite of Wars are still a thing. Remember:

Formations are gone. Therefor it is a huge possibility that ROW vanish too.

RoW disappearing is absolutely absurd. I understand everything is changing, but that's a huge component of the Heresy ruleset at the moment. Formations were an issue in 40k but formations don't exist in 30k...rejiggering the force organization chart is much different.

 

Though I'd welcome a 2+ to hit with sword weapons :devil:

[Runefyre]

I'm pretty sure it was mentioned somewhere by GW that you'll be able to spend command points before a game to reconfigure the FoC.

 

That could be a new "way" to reconfigure RoW bonuses, basically new stratagems to spend command points on if you configure your army a certain way.

[Charlo]

Great way to balance some of the Rites too. The more drastic and poweful ones with less restrictions cost more command points etc.

[Cloud Runner]

Given that the open day they announced a HH specific ruleset that's staying largely 7th ed (from what I recall) I think RoW and other such items will remain as is.

 

It's a shame that they won't be any crossover (for one offs or weird warp storm incidents) but I suppose it enables FW to get a set of rules that fits the theme better, than trying to get a theme to fit a set of rules.

 

Also meanes that the books don;t have to be reprinted again, as the black books could be very costly to update, bith from their erspective, and that of gamers.

 

 

Back to the task - Ironwing is great fun, and I really think it's worth mentioning a stock deredeo - great anti-tank and anti-infantry versatility (especially with the aiolos launcher as well) and they're schmexy to look at to boot :P

 

 

My current 2,500 lists goes something like this

 

 

Delegatus w/calibainte blade and some other minor toys

Damocles

 

Contemptor - 2 x twin-choom cannons (for fun)

sniper Vets - 2 x flamer, p/sword in rhino

sniper vets - flamer & acid h/bolt, p/sword in rhino

 

 

Tac sqd - p/sword in rhino

Tac sqd - p/fist in rhino

Tac support - 10 volkites in rhino

 

 

seekers - p/sword in rhino

 

scorpius (great anti-infantry)

Deredeo - autocannons & aiolos

Sabre squadron - 3 vindicators w/laser destroyers

 

 

 

The damocles, scorpius and deredeo hang back, while the rest kinda advance as a wedge, with vet's outflanking

 

The exterminators rule makes all the rapid fire weapons great fun, and the choom is added for flavour.

 

Competitive list? It does ok.

Fluffy list? I like to think so

Fun to play? absolutely great

 

Also has weight of numbers for countering that awful legion downside

[franksta88]

My 2.5 ironwing list is

 

2 x Praetor w/ chainfist, digital lasers, cataphractii

3 x command cataphractii terminators with dual claws and grenade harness

All in a land raider.

 

2 x 10 man tac squad with calabanite war blade on sarge in rhino

 

2 x 2 plasma predator squadrons

1 x 3 leviathan talon with drill, claw and phosphex.

 

It's a bit hit or miss. It all depends on if my leviathans go down quickly or not.

[Spiritual Liege]

Not an expert with DA, but why have you gone for 2x Praetors with the Command squad? A Praetor and Medicae or Chaplain would surely be more effective.

 

And that's an illegal list. 2x Praetors, Command squad, 2x Tacticals and Leviathan talon=6 non tank units. You only have 5 tank units with 2x Rhinos, 2x Predator squadron and a Land raider. And that's counting the Dreads as a single unit, which is not clear either.

[franksta88]

My playing group doesn't count the command squad as a seperate unit to the praetor that's why it's not illegal at least at my store. It can be fixed by using the onslaught force org and splitting one predator squadron to two seperate ones. Just means you never go first which isn't that bad.

 

i use two praetors coz it's my own fluff that it's twins from terra leading a dark Angels force. That's the only reason haha and it seems to work really well

[Spiritual Liege]

Fine.

 

Do note though if you use Onslaught or any other alternative FOC it means no Rites of war for you.

[carlisimo]

It sounds like the Radio Free Isstvan podcast is going to start going through each legion's rules.  They started with the Dark Angels and it's good info for anyone interested.  
https://soundcloud.com/theforgottenlegion30k/radio-free-isstvan-episode-72-the-dark-angels-episode

[Nomadic Thunder]

I've been lurking a while   and thought it right to voice my appreciation of this thread re-igniting my love for the 1st legion!

I'm aware you will lose the BS bonus by not being in a squadron but has anyone thought about a Sicaran Arcus as a bit of a fluffy  support tank option for an Iron Wing list?

A fast, mobile artillery support platform with specialised warheads for all you monster hunting needs!
 

[Charlo]

I mean sure, but beyond ignoring a DT test and moving an inch extra flat out it's better to go with Squadrons.

 

I don't doubt Sicarans will get squads soon though.

[Nomadic Thunder]

I was thinking in terms of a multi-role platform too though, it can bring pretty effective anti-air shooting (which kind of negates the need for a non-tank mortis dread) and also has the option of a nope button for cybernetica cortex units like castellax and such....

would you say it's too much a case of being too generalised with a high points cost?

 

maybe i'm just getting too excited about a new shiny shooty thing....

 

[ShadowCore67]

I think the Arcus is well worth the points and the slot. The fact that it doesn't get +1 BS isn't that big of a deal. It's too good of a well rounded vehicle to ignore in a tank heavy list. Besides you still have 2 other HS slots to put las vindi squadrons in Edited October 19, 2017 by ShadowCore67

[Nomadic Thunder]

what are people thought's on a unit of jetbike w/acid shells in an ironwing list?
if you have a couple of squadrons of big guns eg. laser vindi's for anti-tank then a fast moving anti-infantry unit is quite appealing...
just thinking from a reactionary point of view they could be quite useful.

then again do people think somethink like a cortus talon would be better use of a non-tank unit?

[Charlo]

Depends what you want them to do! You only get a few precious non-tank units and jetbikes are certainly strong.

 

Dreads offer a lot of utility with Fear and Tank Hunter's though...