[HH1.0] Dark Angels Tactics

[Gorgoff]

Beyond giving his guys half of Legiones Astartes (Word Bearers), the Lion has about as much strategic use as Angron.

Doesn't he give your boys a guaranteed 8" charge or am I missinformed? Edited September 15, 2020 by Gorgoff

[Unknown Legionnaire]

He does. Ignoring both difficult & dangerous terrain.

[corvus.calvariam]

Yup he does, but what I was trying to get at is that he doesn't affect the way the army functions the way other Primarchs like Dorn or Guillam might. Like Angron, basically the only use you're getting out of him would be to put him with some choppy boys and fire him off like a missile somewhere, which feels a bit weird to me because I thought he was supposed to be one of the more strategic Primarchs.

 

Ah well, as someone who is a big fan of decapitation strike armies I'm quite interested in seeing how would a Firewing themed force would do in a ROW like Recon Company or Drop Assault Vanguard.

[Ficinus]

 

Beyond giving his guys half of Legiones Astartes (Word Bearers), the Lion has about as much strategic use as Angron.

Doesn't he give your boys a guaranteed 8" charge or am I missinformed?

 

 

He gives himself a guaranteed 8" charge that confers to any unit he has joined.

[Gorgoff]

 

 

 

Beyond giving his guys half of Legiones Astartes (Word Bearers), the Lion has about as much strategic use as Angron.

Doesn't he give your boys a guaranteed 8" charge or am I missinformed?

He gives himself a guaranteed 8" charge that confers to any unit he has joined.

That :cuss is some big :cussing boost to an army, amIright?

[corvus.calvariam]

This is how the First Legion conquered the galaxy!

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Eight inches at a time ... 

[Nomadic Thunder]

I’d have also really loved the stormwing to be based around breachers and boarding assaults (or at least make it playable in zone mortalis for your troop blobs). That the coolest and most fluffy, IMO, compulsory troop choice got totally ignored for the stormwing consul buff is frustrating.

 

Welcome gentlemen to all-out war, you shall be pitched into the maelstrom of battle where your mettle and skill will be tested against the enemies of man. You shall stride through a storm of metal and fire and wade through the blood of your foes and- what!? No no, brother Kevin. Put that massive shield down, you won’t need it. if you stand still when they’re shooting at you it doesn’t hurt as much...

[Darkwrath121]

Dreadwing probably has some good options if you take lots of jump packs and interemptors in pods/termites so you can more or less ignore the difficult terrain while your opponent suffers with difficult terrain.

The jump pack destroyers would be a great and fluffy idea if it wasn't for them being illegal in the Dreadwing rite, as all infantry must be in transports, which can't carry jump infantry. Very unfortunate.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Darkwrath121

[Nomadic Thunder]

How about synergising the new troop jetbikes with oracle array and a heavy support squad with autocannons, or acid bolters, with stormwing sgt.

It would prove for a rather mobile dakka unit with effective BS3 (snapshot bs2 combined with +1 to hit from oracle). I guess it’s just a poor mans suspensor web that doesn’t sacrifice range.

 

I know it’s not really that effective but I suppose I just like the idea of a space marine lugging around a field gun firing from the hip.

 

Edit: volkite culverins would probably be the best with higher rate of fire and deflagrate

Edited September 16, 2020 by Nomadic Thunder

[SkimaskMohawk]

Re: navigator and lidless stare. You can't put allies in transports.

[Erren]

Re: navigator and lidless stare. You can't put allies in transports.

Dang it, you’re right. Not going to work in a Dreadwing list. Probably going to have to reserve that trick for ZM. Glad you caught my error before I used it in a game at least!

[Ficinus]

 

Dreadwing probably has some good options if you take lots of jump packs and interemptors in pods/termites so you can more or less ignore the difficult terrain while your opponent suffers with difficult terrain.

The jump pack destroyers would be a great and fluffy idea if it wasn't for them being illegal in the Dreadwing rite, as all infantry must be in transports, which can't carry jump infantry. Very unfortunate.

 

 

I was thinking back in 7th ed where there was ambiguity as to whether jump infantry counted as infantry, but the HH rulebook makes it clear that jump infantry count as infantry.  I guess you could toss them in a Thunderhawk or Stormbird? A 3000 point game where you put a unit of ten and a unit of five in a Thunderhawk... yeah, this is rough... these rites of war, man, they just... aren't good.

[SkimaskMohawk]

It was never ambiguous. The rules were very clear in 7th that jump and jet units weren't a unit in of themselves but counted as whatever it was attached to.

[Erren]

A Storm Eagle would work, yes? You couldn’t attach an IC unless you run 9-man, but it’d fit. Same with a Kharybdis.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Nothing gives permission for jump pack models to get into a storm eagle or kharybdis. A lot of people get confused because the storm raven allowed jump pack units, but the storm eagle never got that rule.

[Erren]

Ah, forgot the core transport rules forbid it. Ugh.

[The Scorpion]

Beyond giving his guys half of Legiones Astartes (Word Bearers), the Lion has about as much strategic use as Angron.

This annoys me to no end, Lion is respected, but not "beloved" by his sons like Lorgar or Sanguinius. He's a stern and ruthlessly competent commander you could trust with your life, not an inspiring leader like Horus. The Lion in fluff is a better strategist than Guilliman, able to plan entire planetary invasions faster than even the best cogitator arrays of the Mechanicum, but he doesn't even get the Autillion Skorr/Fulgrim trick of picking from the Strategic WT table? The Unbroken Vow forces the legion elite to hold the center, can this strategy get any more tactically inept?

 

These rules feel written like someone had a checklist, and not enough love for the First legion.

 

How come the Stormwing RoW has no rules for SHIELDS, and focuses on Assault and Tactical marines instead?

 

Compare to the Night Lord rites. Sure, "Horror Cult" is kaput, but it was trash. And the new Rites, while not especially powrful, feel flavourful enough. Biker clans, warbands formed around petty tyrants, sacrificial red-gloved marines...

Edited September 16, 2020 by The Scorpion

[Cris R]

 

Beyond giving his guys half of Legiones Astartes (Word Bearers), the Lion has about as much strategic use as Angron.

This annoys me to no end, Lion is respected, but not "beloved" by his sons like Lorgar or Sanguinius. He's a stern and ruthlessly competent commander you could trust with your life, not an inspiring leader like Horus. The Lion in fluff is a better strategist than Guilliman, able to plan entire planetary invasions faster than even the best cogitator arrays of the Mechanicum, but he doesn't even get the Autillion Skorr/Fulgrim trick of picking from the Strategic WT table? The Unbroken Vow forces the legion elite to hold the center, can this strategy get any more tactically inept?

 

These rules feel written like someone had a checklist, and not enough love for the First legion.

 

How come the Stormwing RoW has no rules for SHIELDS, and focuses on Assault and Tactical marines instead?

 

Compare to the Night Lord rites. Sure, "Horror Cult" is kaput, but it was trash. And the new Rites, while not especially powrful, feel flavourful enough. Biker clans, warbands formed around petty tyrants, sacrificial red-gloved marines...

 

Honestly, the new rules for the Legion feel like a GW product, not a Forge World one. And that’s not a compliment. A lot of it feels like the designers put together some abstract concepts of things that seem interesting without enough play testing or investing real thought into making the rules feel like you’re playing the Legion. As a result, the final product doesn’t feel immersive, flavorful, or fun because it lacks refinement and narrative cohesion. This is my frustration with 40k, so it’s a shame it replicated itself in these rules.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Cris R

[Brother Sutek]

I was hoping for Deathwing to be able to use teleport transponders and have shields as an option for at least some termies. I knew the Acid hvy bolters was going to get Nerfed but fleshbane doesn't make me want to use them anymore, Volkite is just better now which makes me sad. So many added costs to get very limited gains feels, as others have said, more like 40k than HH. Maybe it's just me but I am kinda jealous of the Rites that the NL got in this book, strong but balanced and more importantly they are fluffy.

[Charlo]

 

Beyond giving his guys half of Legiones Astartes (Word Bearers), the Lion has about as much strategic use as Angron.

How come the Stormwing RoW has no rules for SHIELDS, and focuses on Assault and Tactical marines instead?

 

Probably because the shield thing was a throw-away line in a BL novel, which aren't always considered perfect in terms of IP represenation or fully aligned with the FW Black books.

[IamAlphariusxx20]

 

Dreadwing probably has some good options if you take lots of jump packs and interemptors in pods/termites so you can more or less ignore the difficult terrain while your opponent suffers with difficult terrain.

The jump pack destroyers would be a great and fluffy idea if it wasn't for them being illegal in the Dreadwing rite, as all infantry must be in transports, which can't carry jump infantry. Very unfortunate.

Jump infantry aren't infantry unless it says specifically, right? So they don't need transports?

[ShadowCore67]

Can someone help my narrow-minded thinking?

 

Interemptors and Destroyers are both made to kill units at close range. However interemptors do it better albeit they're a bit more expensive. So why would I ever really want to take destroyers in the dreadwing rite?

Edited September 18, 2020 by ShadowCore67

[Aztek]

Can someone help my narrow-minded thinking?

 

Interemptors and Destroyers are both made to kill units at close range. However interemptors do it better albeit they're a bit more expensive. So why would I ever really want to take destroyers in the dreadwing rite?

Just a cheaper scoring unit I think honestly, especially if you put it in a Termite.

[Slips]

 

 

Dreadwing probably has some good options if you take lots of jump packs and interemptors in pods/termites so you can more or less ignore the difficult terrain while your opponent suffers with difficult terrain.

The jump pack destroyers would be a great and fluffy idea if it wasn't for them being illegal in the Dreadwing rite, as all infantry must be in transports, which can't carry jump infantry. Very unfortunate.

Jump infantry aren't infantry unless it says specifically, right? So they don't need transports?

 

7th Ed BRB page 65:

 

[...] Unlike most other unit type categories, 'Jump' is not a classification in and of itself. Instead, you'll find it occurs before another category -  commonly infantry, sometimes Monstrous Creatures and perhaps, rarely, other things. Jump units therefore share two sets of rules, the Jump unit rules, and those of their base type. Jump Infantry would, for example, follow the rules for Jump units and Infantry.

 

They are infantry and per the RoW, they need to be in transports to be included.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Slips