[HH1.0] Dark Angels Tactics

[WGXH]

Surely this is covered by the rule that says no modifiers ever affect Snapshots unless they specifically call out that they affect them? You would expect the rule to say 'including Snapshots' if that were the case.

Thats a very valid point, thank you for raising it. I'd agree ordinarily, however Absolute Focus does just as equally state 'any' modifiers. Usually specific trumps generic, but I would agree there is ambiguity there.

[Nomadic Thunder]

I've been coming up with some ideas for a seekers arrow list and was thinking about adding a stormwing sergeant to a 6 man unit of outriders with plasma repeaters.

They'll probably be jinking the turn after they come on and (hopefully) toast something. Would it be worth the points to give the unit a sergeant for the extra leadership and would it then be worth giving him the stormgwing scion as mitigation for jinking (bs2 complimenting the twinlinked shooting)?

 

edit:spelling

Edited February 16, 2021 by Nomadic Thunder

[ShadowCore67]

I've been coming up with some ideas for a seekers arrow list and was thinking about adding a stormwing sergeant to a 6 man unit of outriders with plasma repeaters.

They'll probably be jinking the turn after they come on and (hopefully) toast something. Would it be worth the points to give the unit a sergeant for the extra leadership and would it then be worth giving him the stormgwing scion as mitigation for jinking (bs2 complimenting the twinlinked shooting)?

 

edit:spelling

I definitely like the idea, and you should totally go for it. As for how competitive or worth it is, unfortunately I think most of the scion upgrades aren't worth their price, especially for bikes and jetbikes where you have to buy the sergeant on top of that.

 

Definitely a cool combo I hadn't thought of though.

[Guest Metaliptica]

I've been coming up with some ideas for a seekers arrow list and was thinking about adding a stormwing sergeant to a 6 man unit of outriders with plasma repeaters.

They'll probably be jinking the turn after they come on and (hopefully) toast something. Would it be worth the points to give the unit a sergeant for the extra leadership and would it then be worth giving him the stormgwing scion as mitigation for jinking (bs2 complimenting the twinlinked shooting)?

 

edit:spelling

Or you could take an pothicary instead of the sergeant and give him the scion upgrade instead ;)

Hell : you could even go to town with a ravenwing sergent and a stormwing apothicary on bike with augury scanner

I am not sure any of these combo are currently worth their points but I'd say try it and tell us ;)

[Gattopardo]

The Seeker's Arrow is a very interesting Rite I think. You look at it and think it's a Rite for bikes but it doesn't actually require any bikes at all, so you can end up with something really quite different to the Skyhunter Phalanx or the Ravenwing Protocol. Of course it lets you take a lot of bikes in it if you want, but it doesn't make you do so. (Incidentally, this is one reason I feel it's wrong to argue that Book 9 means that the Ravenwing Protocol is superceded - the Seeker's Arrow is really very different to the Ravenwing Protocol and seems to be reflecting a different aspect of the First Legion's way of war).

 

Ideas like the above, mixing the different Scions and coming up with unusual combos are where some of the potential is found I think, in the Seeker's Arrow and some of the other Rites. Although whether any of the combos are actually worth the points is a different question! I do think that the Scions push you in the direction of larger units, so the Scion tax is spread over big units and you don't have to buy the upgrades as many times.

 

When I was looking at ideas for the Seeker's Arrow I thought I'd have one six man unit of jetbikes as compulsory troops, and fill the other slot with a large unit of infantry, probably assault marines, who'd get more benefit from Scion of the Ravenwing, and then a large unit of plasma repeater Outriders also with Scion of the Ravenwing (so they can outflank on a 2+).

 

HQ is interesting. One idea is to have a Praetor on Jetbike - feels thematic - with Scion of the Ravenwing and hit and run, and possibly a command squad. Expensive though! Effectively you're paying 45 points to get hit and run and add 2" to your charge distance. Obviously this guy would have a combi grenade launcher with stasis shells. Alternatively you could have him footslog. Could stick him with some Tartaros terminators for example.

 

I'm not sure how to use the one measly Heavy Support slot. I feel a Sicaran is asking for trouble. Likely to face the entirety of the enemy's anti tank, and die quickly. A Fire Raptor could be a good choice of course, but means you need to look to Fast Attack for serious anti tank - so I guess Javelins, Speeders, Sabres, Xiphons and Primaris-Lightnings. Oddly, I think the Seeker's Arrow does allow Rapiers. Not sure how I feel about that, but again it's a good example of how this Rite isn't just about building a bike and jetbike army (assuming I am reading the limitations correctly!).

[Nomadic Thunder]

Does the seekers arrow make jet bikes and outriders compulsory troops or just a troops option?

 

I was thinking about using assault squads as compulsory troops for some meltabombing anti-tank. But if I can take jet bikes as the compulsory slot that would change things.

 

I’m not really about nit picking the wording of rules in the way the recon company rite was but I’m curious for if I had to discuss it with an opponent I’d like to know I’m not just misreading something and cheating the rules and having an illegal list.

[ShadowCore67]

Does the seekers arrow make jet bikes and outriders compulsory troops or just a troops option?

 

I was thinking about using assault squads as compulsory troops for some meltabombing anti-tank. But if I can take jet bikes as the compulsory slot that would change things.

 

I’m not really about nit picking the wording of rules in the way the recon company rite was but I’m curious for if I had to discuss it with an opponent I’d like to know I’m not just misreading something and cheating the rules and having an illegal list.

Bikes and Jetbikes aren't required to be compulsory but any bike or jetbike units that aren't compulsory have to start the game in reserves.

Edited February 20, 2021 by ShadowCore67

[Cris R]

Hey folks, quick question: what's the best build for Terminator Deathwing Companions for Tartaros and Cataphractii armor? They'll accompany a Tartaros Preator with a Terranic Greatsword or Thunder Hammer or the two Cataphractii special characters. Thanks and apologies if this topic popped up earlier in the thread.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Cris R

[Gattopardo]

I've wondered about this myself. They can take thunder hammers as a free upgrade (whereas they have to pay to take power fists), so I think giving a good number of them thunder hammers is a no brainer. Probably an even split of thunder hammers and terranic greatswords, to give them the ability to take on a wide range of threats. The terranic greatswords will cut through power armour and also be useful against Mechanicum thanks to instant death. Thunder hammers to deal with terminators and artificer armour. It's a shame there isn't an option to take chainfists.

 

Gun wise, I think at least one, possibly two, should be taking the combi grenade launcher with stasis shells (unless they're accompanying the Lion, whose stasis grenades render this unnecessary). I'm not sure about whether other combi weapons are worth taking.

 

How are you going to transport them? In a Spartan?

 

I'm not 100% sure what I'm going to do for mine but I'll probably only build them in Tartaros as I'd expect they will be accompanying the Lion a lot of the time and I wouldn't want to lose the ability to sweep opponents. Although the Lion and some companions in power armour in a Dreadclaw is an interesting idea for sure. I feel the Lion will benefit a lot from coming down in a pod and obviously if he's with terminator companions that would have to be a Kharybdis.

[Cris R]

I've wondered about this myself. They can take thunder hammers as a free upgrade (whereas they have to pay to take power fists), so I think giving a good number of them thunder hammers is a no brainer. Probably an even split of thunder hammers and terranic greatswords, to give them the ability to take on a wide range of threats. The terranic greatswords will cut through power armour and also be useful against Mechanicum thanks to instant death. Thunder hammers to deal with terminators and artificer armour. It's a shame there isn't an option to take chainfists.

 

Gun wise, I think at least one, possibly two, should be taking the combi grenade launcher with stasis shells (unless they're accompanying the Lion, whose stasis grenades render this unnecessary). I'm not sure about whether other combi weapons are worth taking.

 

How are you going to transport them? In a Spartan?

 

I'm not 100% sure what I'm going to do for mine but I'll probably only build them in Tartaros as I'd expect they will be accompanying the Lion a lot of the time and I wouldn't want to lose the ability to sweep opponents. Although the Lion and some companions in power armour in a Dreadclaw is an interesting idea for sure. I feel the Lion will benefit a lot from coming down in a pod and obviously if he's with terminator companions that would have to be a Kharybdis.

 

Yeah, I'm thinking of putting together two separate units - one in Cataphractii armor for Cataphractii HQs, the other in Tartaros for Tartaros HQs - each with three Terranic Greatswords, two Thunder Hammers, and two Combi-Grenade launchers with statis grenades. I could be convinced to do three hammers and two swords instead. I actually run my Dark Angels as my force for smaller games like ZM or Centurion, so I'm less worried about dedicated transports for now. If I decide to expand my army, a Spartan will definitely be on the menu.

[Gattopardo]

Yeah that's pretty much exactly my thoughts. Not sure I'll get round to doing any Cataphractii Companions, which is a shame as they'd look amazing I reckon.

 

The options for the power armoured guys are a bit more involved, what with the need to think about how many shields to give them, and how many Companions to run in the unit. I'm quite keen to try them both with a power armoured HQ (probably Corswain) and with the Lion, because he'd fit into a Dreadclaw with them, and that could be pretty nasty I reckon. You get the choice of whether to bring him in on turn 1 and all the benefits of the Dreadclaw. I do think the Kharybdis would be a better choice than the Spartan for terminator companions too. It's cheaper and less vulnerable to getting smoked by a Lightning before it gets into position. But it's also hard on the wallet and kinda impractical. I already have a Spartan so I should probably try that before buying a Kharybdis!

Edited March 28, 2021 by Gattopardo

[Cris R]

Yeah that's pretty much exactly my thoughts. Not sure I'll get round to doing any Cataphractii Companions, which is a shame as they'd look amazing I reckon.

 

The options for the power armoured guys are a bit more involved, what with the need to think about how many shields to give them, and how many Companions to run in the unit. I'm quite keen to try them both with a power armoured HQ (probably Corswain) and with the Lion, because he'd fit into a Dreadclaw with them, and that could be pretty nasty I reckon. You get the choice of whether to bring him in on turn 1 and all the benefits of the Dreadclaw. I do think the Kharybdis would be a better choice than the Spartan for terminator companions too. It's cheaper and less vulnerable to getting smoked by a Lightning before it gets into position. But it's also hard on the wallet and kinda impractical. I already have a Spartan so I should probably try that before buying a Kharybdis!

 

I have the power armored units and Dark Angels Praetor to mix up my larger point ZM lists where I run the Zone Mortalis Assault Force RoW and lean on Breachers to do the heavy lifting. In this case, I'll definitely be using shields, Calabinite warblades, and probably a fist or two. A Kharybdis or Storm Eagle would be interesting options to run my Terminator Preator and Deathwing Companions but I'm eying a tank heavy list with those guys. I've got Calth for my Blood Angels but my pristine copy of Prospero will go to my Dark Angels, giving me more options once I want to expand beyond smaller lists.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Cris R

[ToyShip]

So I am finally starting my Dark Angels force, and I have 40 MKIII Tactical marines. So first thought of course is to run Storm of War.

I can fit this into 1500pts:

 

1x Praetor

1x Deathwing Companion squad

2x 20 man Tactical Squads with Centurions

1x Predator Squadron of 2x Predators with Plasma and Lascannons

All the characters have calibanite warblades, artificer armor, etc.

 

Will this list get absolutely destroyed? Should I be giving the tacticals the extra ccw to play off the legion rules? Any suggestions?

[Erren]

Whether you get absolutely destroyed will depend entirely on your meta. If your playgroup is heavily narrative, you'll have fun and probably win some. Hopefully there's lots of terrain. But in any sort of competitive meta I think you'll get destroyed. You have very little anti-tank and what you have is fairly squishy from the flank. Your deathstar Praetor/Deathwing Companions are also walking, so they'll have a hard time getting to their target (and getting shot at while they walk). It's a slow list with limited anti-tank that's vulnerable to pie plates. Also, jerks will bring Leviathans to 1500 pts, so try to think of how you'd handle that. Or a Thanatar.

 

As painful as it might be, I think if you're just starting out with 40 plastic MkIII you need to consider builds that'll get you a lot of future use. I Legion has very good special units, but the RoW are ... problematic. The Dreadwing one is really solid, but the Ironwing and Ravenwing ones are underwhelming. Deathwing bad. Firewing is risky due to the auto-lose, but good if you can avoid that. Stormwing I haven't looked at as much since the FAQ, but I think it's playable now IF you're taking some Assault Squads to put pressure on the opponent.

 

If I was looking at starting a I Legion force, my first 40 plastic MkIIIs would be something like:

10 Seekers. At least. Probably all combi-plasma, but you could mix in some standard bolters (with special ammo). These are good in any list, and compulsary in Firewing.

20 Vets. Combi-grenade on the sergeant. Sword or Fist (or magnetize). Probably meltas on the special weapon guys. Maybe mix in some combi-meltas. 10 Machine-killers are good in any list and they can be compulsory in Pride of the Legion (just pretend it's the Deathwing RoW).

Save the last 10 bodies until you've played a little. (if I'm wrong and you've played a bunch of 30k, my apologies)

 

Get a couple Rhinos. You can use the plastic ones if want (I use a mix, because my force has been having trouble resupplying).

The Praetor and DW Companions are cool. They need a delivery method. I like the Anvillus Drop Pod, but a Phobos Land Raider can be hard to deal with at low points levels (and can still be useful in other lists later).

 

I think the problem I have with assembling 40 guys as Tacticals is that, outside of Storm of War, you're probably not going to get a lot of use out of half of them. 2 squads of 10 Tacticals can see plenty of use, but 40? Ehh...

 

If you already have the tanks, use them - they're fine. I'd try to magnetize the sponsons, but they'll do some work. I'd also recommend a Javelin or two (Missiles and MM), they're great for their points at any level and give you some speed at low points. If you're really enchanted by Storm of War, then invest in some apothecaries (and assault squads). Jet-/Attack-/Outrider-bikes are also thematic and will find use in a multitude of lists.

 

One thing I've learned that hard way is that you need a reason for your opponent to come at you. If your proposed list was against a Mechanicum list with lots of Thallax that can move-shoot-thrust out of LOS, you're going to have a hard time. If they have a lot of artillery, you're going to have a hard time. You need to be able to apply pressure to their side as early as possible, even stuff they're trying to keep out of LOS. Storm of War can do that, but you need to plan around the weakness of 20-man tactical blobs. That can be hard at 1500 points.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Erren

[Imren]

If you want to apply pressure, get the following:

• 1x terrax assault drill
• 10x interremptors
• 30x N52 strength cylindrical 2x2 mm magnets, they fit perfect and have good strength (less flimsy).
• 10x combimeltas
• 1x 2 mm drill bit (and a pin vise if you don't have it).

Build them with magnetised wrists and magnetise the 10x interremptor specific plasma weapons and the 10 combimeltas. And you runt the models the following way

• If facing a tank heavy army: Run them as machine killer vets or seekers and "point-click-delete" during turn one any super heavies or any other threatful vehicle (spartan with deathstar, now that spartan contents needs to footslog which you can work around during the rest of the game)
• If facing a infantry heavy army: Run them as interremptors and "point-click-delete" during turn one any threatful infanntry unit.

Advantage with siege drill is that on top of the squad of ten you can add a apothecary or any other character as well as the drill have a troop capacity of 12.

 

Another way of putting pressure is a warmonger instead of the drill, which allows you to deep strike the squad and unload the plasma or melta at melta-range (or rapid fire range for plasma guns).

Edited May 21, 2021 by Imren

[Gorgoff]

So I am finally starting my Dark Angels force, and I have 40 MKIII Tactical marines. So first thought of course is to run Storm of War.

I can fit this into 1500pts:

 

1x Praetor

1x Deathwing Companion squad

2x 20 man Tactical Squads with Centurions

1x Predator Squadron of 2x Predators with Plasma and Lascannons

All the characters have calibanite warblades, artificer armor, etc.

 

Will this list get absolutely destroyed? Should I be giving the tacticals the extra ccw to play off the legion rules? Any suggestions?

It's illegal.

You need more Tactical squads and or Assault squads than all other units in the army combined. You've got two unit which are neither of these which means you need at least 3 TT or AS.

[Guest Metaliptica]

Quick question: I thought the Lion cannot join a DA squad outside of his deathwing companions when taken in a DA specific RoW. My two latest opponents said I could. So does the Lion count as being part of the primary detachement for the purpose of joining a squad from said detachement ?

[Gorgoff]

Quick question: I thought the Lion cannot join a DA squad outside of his deathwing companions when taken in a DA specific RoW. My two latest opponents said I could. So does the Lion count as being part of the primary detachement for the purpose of joining a squad from said detachement ?

Of course.