Alpha Legion Personal Behaviour

[Charlo]

So I've not read too many Heresy books other than the FW ones, and really all of the AL stuff in those is just "well here is something. It might be true but probably not." so they're not the best source, but what is for AL info?

 

Basically because they're constantly the "are they loyal, are they not, own agenda, spies." I was just wondering how they act on an interpersonal level within' the legion. Are they brotherly? Do they chat normally? Or does every legionnaire have thier own agenda and part to play in the overall schemes of the legion?

 

Just a random thought I had that I thought you lovely fraters might be able to answer.

[Excessus]

In Legion we find out that they are actually pretty brotherly and jokes around with each other a lot(even between the ranks). They have a penchant for philosophy and discuss wider items such as the Emperor's plan, the impossible utopia he is trying to create, and how strife evolves mankind...and such things. From their Index Astartes article (and from the 2nd ed chaos codex) we find out that the aspirants succeed or fail...as a team. That would make them value cooperation and teamwork pretty well. They respect knowledge and expertise, when planning an operation if someone is an expert on meltabombs and you need to take out a tank, everybody will take heed of his expertise...even if they are a captain, or a primarch(though I guess few would trup A&Os expertise in most things)...

[Charlo]

Hmm interesting. The teamwork thing is cool and I remember reading that now you mention it...

 

Basically trying to get my head around them, as they are on my radar as a potential maybe for my Legion.

[Frostmourne]

The problem is, beyond Void Combat between ships, the only combat we have seen in the books with Alpha Legion is really small scale, 1 or 2 squads being really bro fisty, and operating completely in sync.

 

I had a huge conversation with a friend about 3 years ago when he was planning to run Alpha Legion about how to run them. And i think its completely fluffy, albeit completely unfair, to tailor your list to know what you are facing, and bring the right stuff. AL wouldnt turn up to a fight without knowing every force strength and resource and being able to counter it.

 

That being said, they are still a Legion and has been said a hundred times on this site by the likes of Slipstreams and such, they would have had the man power and the armour to do pretty much anything you can think of.

 

Omegon and Alpharius are still as commanding within their Legion as say Horus is to the SoH, his Legionaries still love and idolise him, but the Alpha Legion are almost EC cocky and SW self assured in their methods. And dont forget they probably have the greatest strength of Will, for deception is a weary mask to wear.

 

As said above, they are chatty, same as SoH are in the first book, and there is alot more chatting between ranks, almost how the other Legions act in their Lodges and whatever.

[Sete]

I read a bit about alpha legion, and I like them.

Alao liked the fact that it seems Omegon goes againts Alpharius plans, helping the WS in one of the books.

Tempted to go Omegon Alpha Legion on 40k.

BaC, plenty of MK4, and I have dozens of MK6 torsos laying around that I never used.

[Charlo]

For the lulz I'd probably run Loyalist AL using Alpharius' rules for Omegon xD

[Stoneheart]

A good source for Alpha Legion personalities is 'the serpent beneath' by Rob Sanders (its in the Primarchs HH book). In that story they treat each other equally and defer to more experienced marines regardless of rank (a lot of the story is interspersed with them discussing how to infiltrate this asteroid base). But they're all expendable and accept it...to a point (read the end). 

 

I like to think they're kind of like the TIE Fighter pilots from star wars, highly trained and conditioned to be believe that they're all awesome, but also to treat themselves as expendable assets. I don't know how that would work with an astartes mind-set in terms of intra-legion friendships, which you'd imagine would be limited in such an atmosphere, but it would probably mean that they seem arrogant and insular to other legions. 

 

I know it goes against the BL fluff but I try to view the Alpha Legion in more simplistic terms - they're clever, Machiavellian, devious, hubristic and dying for a chance to stick it to the pompous loyalists who to them, are the ultimate foes. I'll have to see how their story pans out as the HH draws to a close...hopefully it'll be worth all the confusion for that. 

[A D-B]

I know it goes against the BL fluff but I try to view the Alpha Legion in more simplistic terms - they're clever, Machiavellian, devious, hubristic and dying for a chance to stick it to the pompous loyalists who to them, are the ultimate foes. I'll have to see how their story pans out as the HH draws to a close...hopefully it'll be worth all the confusion for that. 

 

Awesome. And perfectly aligned to classic lore. I love it.

[Stoneheart]

 

I know it goes against the BL fluff but I try to view the Alpha Legion in more simplistic terms - they're clever, Machiavellian, devious, hubristic and dying for a chance to stick it to the pompous loyalists who to them, are the ultimate foes. I'll have to see how their story pans out as the HH draws to a close...hopefully it'll be worth all the confusion for that. 

 

Awesome. And perfectly aligned to classic lore. I love it.

 

 

Glad you approve, but I realise that - like you say - most of what I said is in fact aligned with BL fluff - my point was that it's all so confusing at the moment that I just stick to the villainous stereotype until more of their motivations come to light. :D

[Xenith]

Watch the [original] A Team. That's how they interact.

 

Maybe the guys in Saving Private Ryan?

 

A group of specialists who put aside differences and ego in order to complete the mission at hand.

 

Even if the mission at hand is only part of an overall less efficient way of warfare.

 

Sometimes, they can take a sick pleasure from tormenting their opponents: They sabotage, disorganise and behead, even when a more direct approach would have been more efficient.

 

I'd say they aim to proscecute a war with zero unneccessary casualties, so line up all the dominoes well in advance, so everzthing falls into place and the enemy topples.

[A D-B]

I know it goes against the BL fluff but I try to view the Alpha Legion in more simplistic terms - they're clever, Machiavellian, devious, hubristic and dying for a chance to stick it to the pompous loyalists who to them, are the ultimate foes. I'll have to see how their story pans out as the HH draws to a close...hopefully it'll be worth all the confusion for that.

Awesome. And perfectly aligned to classic lore. I love it.

Glad you approve, but I realise that - like you say - most of what I said is in fact aligned with BL fluff - my point was that it's all so confusing at the moment that I just stick to the villainous stereotype until more of their motivations come to light.

No, no, no. I meant aligned with the IA article / classic lore. Not so much with recent novel series AL perspectives.

I dig your take on it.

[Stoneheart]

 

 

*snip*

 

 

No, no, no. I meant aligned with the IA article / classic lore. Not so much with recent novel series AL perspectives.

 

I dig your take on it.

 

 

Ahhhh right - well, I'm glad we agree! :) Not that the classic lore and the recent BL splinter cell/triple agent stuff are mutually exclusive, but the latter has become overly complicated IMO. That said I'd love to see some BL stuff that shows interaction between the Alpha Legion and the Ultramarines  pre-heresy, such as the Tesstra compliance. 

 

 

Watch the [original] A Team. That's how they interact.

 

Maybe the guys in Saving Private Ryan?

 

A group of specialists who put aside differences and ego in order to complete the mission at hand.

 

 

 

I think that suits the 'elite' units of the Alpha Legion but what about the majority of the Legion? They can't all be special and all-knowing after all - maybe the talented ones get plucked from the ranks of the greater legion and given special training/insider knowledge (like the Inner circle in the DA)? 

[shandwen]

What we have seen in the hh books has all been elite units. Both Legion and Serpent show small, tight cadres of selected soldiers who have personally had contqct with their primarch(s). It is mentioned that the AL is a "democratic" organization for whatever that actually means when information is so tightly held, but each legionare has a voice. Our best view of the bulk of the legion will be in whatever book(s) show the battle where someone dressed as Alpharius dies.

I would say that the amount of pre-battle training for an alpha legionare is vastly higher than for any other legions troops, and also that A/O is more open and available than any of their brothers to their legion. We see Curze with a large group of his sons he interacted with, but few others had more than a handful they actually seemed to care about. A/O seems to have kept a very sizeable circle. This would cause a vastly different legion.

[Daemon2027]

In Legion we do have a scene where the larger elect of the Alpha Legion is gearing up to fight, but this is topped by John Gramaticus and co because the planets going to go bye bye. I'm sure there is some description of what John sees, I definitely remember Temrinator armour being mentioned. It's just a shame we've only really seen the Alpha Legion portrayed in one page scale fight and that seemed to be mostly a 'throw as much armour as you can at the enemy' battle.

[Charlo]

As a side note, I had never really looked at the AL body upgrades... OH MY. They are incredible.

 

But this is all interesting stuff. Its cool to know that there would actually be a really good brotherly link between the legionnaires with being trained as a squad etc

[Stoneheart]

As a side note, I had never really looked at the AL body upgrades... OH MY. They are incredible.

 

But this is all interesting stuff. Its cool to know that there would actually be a really good brotherly link between the legionnaires with being trained as a squad etc

 

I suppose with all the secrets and lies etc. that the Alpha Legion employs, there would have to be real trust, beyond any other legion perhaps, in their Primarch and the legion's objectives on the whole, in order to prevent paranoia and sedition spreading through the ranks.

 

Can imagine a scene...Alpha Legion squad sergeant receives a message mid-battle that he is to remain behind with his squad and sacrifice themselves so that the bulk of the army can withdraw or something...Sergeant turns to his squad as bullets and shells impact all around their position...they've already guessed what the news is...

 

'Our time has come, brothers.' Sergeant Gamma said, eventually.  

 

'We know, Sergeant.' Brother Delta spoke on behalf of the rest of the squad. 

 

'For the Legion, then.' Brother Upsilon sighed, slamming a magazine home. 

 

'Naturally.' 

[Charlo]

That "Naturally" is so friggin AL. God Damn.

 

Homeslty I'm so close to collecting them just for the Style and Profile nature of the legion...

 

Plus the BaC style of mk4 just screams AL.

[Stoneheart]

You and me both Charlo, the mark IV is perfect for them. Also for recon squads there's the blackops stuff that Anvil industries do...can't wait to actually be able to afford stuff after Christmas haha!

[Caillum]

Charlo, if you want an awesome story with Alpha Legion in it, read "The Seventh Serpent". It made me love both the Alpha Legion and the Iron Hands in equal measure. It's the third of Graham McNeill's Sisypheum books (after Kryptos and Angel Exterminatus) and probably my favourite of the 3. Very cool stuff.

 

Aside from that, Legion is definitely the most critical read. For some reason it's a very polarising novel (I loved it personally, though many hated it). One thing to note is that all the revelations in it were given to Dan Abnett by Black Library - best kept secret in the company. :)

[Charlo]

Any risk of reading them "out of order" with the rest of the books, or even that trilogy? If not I'll get on it. I may even have a paper copy of Legion knocking about...

[Caillum]

Not knowing what you've read, please forgive me if I'm stating the obvious:

 

Legion is fine to read on it's own - it's set before the Heresy starts. Graham McNeill's Sisypheum books are set later, after the Dropsite Massacre, but they stand alone so shouldn't be an issue.

 

Try this reading order:

1. Horus Rising

2. False Gods

3. Galaxy in Flames

5. Fulgrim

7. Legion

#. Kryptos (cheap eBook or in Book 31)

23. Angel Exterminatus

#. The Seventh Serpent (limited edition hardback only, for now).

 

Alpha Legion are only in Legion and The Seventh Serpent, but the rest are worth it. :)

[Hesh Kadesh]

*snip*

No, no, no. I meant aligned with the IA article / classic lore. Not so much with recent novel series AL perspectives.

I dig your take on it.

Ahhhh right - well, I'm glad we agree! Not that the classic lore and the recent BL splinter cell/triple agent stuff are mutually exclusive, but the latter has become overly complicated IMO. That said I'd love to see some BL stuff that shows interaction between the Alpha Legion and the Ultramarines pre-heresy, such as the Tesstra compliance.

Watch the [original] A Team. That's how they interact.

Maybe the guys in Saving Private Ryan?

A group of specialists who put aside differences and ego in order to complete the mission at hand.

I think that suits the 'elite' units of the Alpha Legion but what about the majority of the Legion? They can't all be special and all-knowing after all - maybe the talented ones get plucked from the ranks of the greater legion and given special training/insider knowledge (like the Inner circle in the DA)?

Given the nature of multiple hundred thousand legionaries, that there is no intelligence service in operation among the other legions is bloody ridiculous. While the Alpha Legion may be dedicated to it, that something like the Ultramarines or the Imperial Fists, Sons of Horus, Space Wolves or the Dark Angel's would not have spies - after all the Space Wolves had an intelligence system in the form of the "Hearthguard's", but were pretty woefully executed in my personal opinion.

The Roman Empire is renowned for having its legions made up vast amounts of men and animals taken from all corners of the globe that they reached - but they had spies too. I think it was the Frumentarii, which were essentially quartermasters and involved at all ranks of the Supply system were used to report on movements and actions of the Legions - a general gathering troops on the borders of peaceful lands and stocking ammunition and supplies without an order from the Imperial government was signs of a military coup, for example.

The Alpha Legion can take it to the extreme during the Heresy with going to literal Mission Impossible styles of play, but all legions not only had Vigilators and Recon squads, but likely people trained to operate in inter-legion actions - Delegatus, Heraldus and other Equerry's, for example. Even today, there are Special Forces who stage pretend takeovers/infiltrations of Nuclear facilities/ports in the UK - my Brother in Law was in the Royal marines and has fished out a few Special Forces out of the waters of Rosyth Naval Base in Scotland.

While certain legions, such as the World Eaters and the Death Guard not being particularly notable infiltrators (despite likely having their own Recon sections), others like those aforementioned, as well as RG, or NL would be rather capable, especially if they're a Terran Marine, as opposed to one from say Nostramo.

The whole face-off deal, I'm not a particular fan of, but sneaking into position, using camoflaged or repainted/captured suits of armour, voice changers, stolen callsigns, misrepresentation to non-legion forces (a guy dressed up in UM heraldry, but being a secret RG Vigilator, and equipped with the correct pass codes etc could make their way into a facility that is no expecting an infiltration, (especially preHeresy) even if they're on the look out for it.

[Daemon2027]

 

 

As a side note, I had never really looked at the AL body upgrades... OH MY. They are incredible.

 

But this is all interesting stuff. Its cool to know that there would actually be a really good brotherly link between the legionnaires with being trained as a squad etc

I suppose with all the secrets and lies etc. that the Alpha Legion employs, there would have to be real trust, beyond any other legion perhaps, in their Primarch and the legion's objectives on the whole, in order to prevent paranoia and sedition spreading through the ranks.

 

Can imagine a scene...Alpha Legion squad sergeant receives a message mid-battle that he is to remain behind with his squad and sacrifice themselves so that the bulk of the army can withdraw or something...Sergeant turns to his squad as bullets and shells impact all around their position...they've already guessed what the news is...

 

'Our time has come, brothers.' Sergeant Gamma said, eventually.

 

'We know, Sergeant.' Brother Delta spoke on behalf of the rest of the squad.

 

'For the Legion, then.' Brother Upsilon sighed, slamming a magazine home.

 

'Naturally.'

Order 66?

[Charlo]

Not knowing what you've read, please forgive me if I'm stating the obvious:

 

Legion is fine to read on it's own - it's set before the Heresy starts. Graham McNeill's Sisypheum books are set later, after the Dropsite Massacre, but they stand alone so shouldn't be an issue.

 

Try this reading order:

1. Horus Rising

2. False Gods

3. Galaxy in Flames

5. Fulgrim

7. Legion

#. Kryptos (cheap eBook or in Book 31)

23. Angel Exterminatus

#. The Seventh Serpent (limited edition hardback only, for now).

 

Alpha Legion are only in Legion and The Seventh Serpent, but the rest are worth it. :)

I've done the first three :) was half way into Eisenstein but forgot to go back. Started Fulgrim but couldn't stand it much.

 

I'll give Legion a go! Followed by AE as that I've had told to me a lot.

 

Thanks!

[shandwen]

*snip*

No, no, no. I meant aligned with the IA article / classic lore. Not so much with recent novel series AL perspectives.

I dig your take on it.

Ahhhh right - well, I'm glad we agree! Not that the classic lore and the recent BL splinter cell/triple agent stuff are mutually exclusive, but the latter has become overly complicated IMO. That said I'd love to see some BL stuff that shows interaction between the Alpha Legion and the Ultramarines pre-heresy, such as the Tesstra compliance.

Watch the [original] A Team. That's how they interact.

Maybe the guys in Saving Private Ryan?

A group of specialists who put aside differences and ego in order to complete the mission at hand.

I think that suits the 'elite' units of the Alpha Legion but what about the majority of the Legion? They can't all be special and all-knowing after all - maybe the talented ones get plucked from the ranks of the greater legion and given special training/insider knowledge (like the Inner circle in the DA)?

Given the nature of multiple hundred thousand legionaries, that there is no intelligence service in operation among the other legions is bloody ridiculous. While the Alpha Legion may be dedicated to it, that something like the Ultramarines or the Imperial Fists, Sons of Horus, Space Wolves or the Dark Angel's would not have spies - after all the Space Wolves had an intelligence system in the form of the "Hearthguard's", but were pretty woefully executed in my personal opinion.

The Roman Empire is renowned for having its legions made up vast amounts of men and animals taken from all corners of the globe that they reached - but they had spies too. I think it was the Frumentarii, which were essentially quartermasters and involved at all ranks of the Supply system were used to report on movements and actions of the Legions - a general gathering troops on the borders of peaceful lands and stocking ammunition and supplies without an order from the Imperial government was signs of a military coup, for example.

The Alpha Legion can take it to the extreme during the Heresy with going to literal Mission Impossible styles of play, but all legions not only had Vigilators and Recon squads, but likely people trained to operate in inter-legion actions - Delegatus, Heraldus and other Equerry's, for example. Even today, there are Special Forces who stage pretend takeovers/infiltrations of Nuclear facilities/ports in the UK - my Brother in Law was in the Royal marines and has fished out a few Special Forces out of the waters of Rosyth Naval Base in Scotland.

While certain legions, such as the World Eaters and the Death Guard not being particularly notable infiltrators (despite likely having their own Recon sections), others like those aforementioned, as well as RG, or NL would be rather capable, especially if they're a Terran Marine, as opposed to one from say Nostramo.

The whole face-off deal, I'm not a particular fan of, but sneaking into position, using camoflaged or repainted/captured suits of armour, voice changers, stolen callsigns, misrepresentation to non-legion forces (a guy dressed up in UM heraldry, but being a secret RG Vigilator, and equipped with the correct pass codes etc could make their way into a facility that is no expecting an infiltration, (especially preHeresy) even if they're on the look out for it.

Many of the legions did not operate any foward spies: force overcomes guile with legions. The Ultramarines were said to have their own inquisition in thier homeworlds though (a bloody and repressive force by some accounts). Ravenguard showed that they had no actual counter-intel group with what Alpha did to them, and no one besides Alpha and the Emperor/Malchador had any widespread intel group. It was a glaring weakness that no onw but another legion could exploit.