Alpha Legion Personal Behaviour

[Stoneheart]

 

'I think that suits the 'elite' units of the Alpha Legion but what about the majority of the Legion? They can't all be special and all-knowing after all...'

 

 

Given the nature of multiple hundred thousand legionaries, that there is no intelligence service in operation among the other legions is bloody ridiculous. While the Alpha Legion may be dedicated to it, that something like the Ultramarines or the Imperial Fists, Sons of Horus, Space Wolves or the Dark Angel's would not have spies - after all the Space Wolves had an intelligence system in the form of the "Hearthguard's", but were pretty woefully executed in my personal opinion.

 

The Roman Empire is renowned for having its legions made up vast amounts of men and animals taken from all corners of the globe that they reached - but they had spies too. I think it was the Frumentarii, which were essentially quartermasters and involved at all ranks of the Supply system were used to report on movements and actions of the Legions - a general gathering troops on the borders of peaceful lands and stocking ammunition and supplies without an order from the Imperial government was signs of a military coup, for example.

 

The Alpha Legion can take it to the extreme during the Heresy with going to literal Mission Impossible styles of play, but all legions not only had Vigilators and Recon squads, but likely people trained to operate in inter-legion actions - Delegatus, Heraldus and other Equerry's, for example. Even today, there are Special Forces who stage pretend takeovers/infiltrations of Nuclear facilities/ports in the UK - my Brother in Law was in the Royal marines and has fished out a few Special Forces out of the waters of Rosyth Naval Base in Scotland.

 

While certain legions, such as the World Eaters and the Death Guard not being particularly notable infiltrators (despite likely having their own Recon sections), others like those aforementioned, as well as RG, or NL would be rather capable, especially if they're a Terran Marine, as opposed to one from say Nostramo.

 

The whole face-off deal, I'm not a particular fan of, but sneaking into position, using camoflaged or repainted/captured suits of armour, voice changers, stolen callsigns, misrepresentation to non-legion forces (a guy dressed up in UM heraldry, but being a secret RG Vigilator, and equipped with the correct pass codes etc could make their way into a facility that is no expecting an infiltration, (especially preHeresy) even if they're on the look out for it.

 

 

Hi Hesh, I was referring to the Alpha Legion only when I say 'the majority of the Legion', as in the majority of the Alpha Legion will not be special-ops seeker marines, in fact will be rather normal I imagine, Alpha legion idiosyncrasies aside.

 

That the other legions have intelligent elements goes without saying, although like you say they don't seem to have specialised in infiltrating other legions as well as the Alpha Legion. Or at least do not make such activities central to their battle plans. 

 

Don't  forget though, the Imperium have non-astartes intelligence services that are arguably a better use of resources than trying to infiltrate a seven foot tall marine into an enemy lair. The Alpha Legion are well known for using their own specially trained operatives to this end. 

[Caillum]

Perhaps not everyone has read Wolf King yet? :P

[Stoneheart]

Order 66?

That would be a cool scene actually - as the heresy starts, loads of astartes commanders over the galaxy are shot down by their own retinues, who have been alpha legionnaires all along!

*cue emotional star wars music*

Perhaps not everyone has read Wolf King yet?

But the marines you refer to aren't exactly typical legionaries ;)

Good point though.

[Hesh Kadesh]

That is a stupidity of Gav Thorpes writing, that can also be explained away by the devastation of losing ~95% of your brothers and losing much of the will.

 

I'd be surprised for any military force to have any such glaring weakness; whether than apparent and overt as in the case of AL Nicholas Cages/Tom cruises, or more subvert in the form of nonlegionary spies like how Maloghurst took on that tongueless guy for Horus.

 

Yhe UM guys are probably a hint at the Frumentarii if anyone because Space Romans.

[Trevak Dal]

In Legion we find out that they are actually pretty brotherly and jokes around with each other a lot(even between the ranks). They have a penchant for philosophy and discuss wider items such as the Emperor's plan, the impossible utopia he is trying to create, and how strife evolves mankind...and such things. From their Index Astartes article (and from the 2nd ed chaos codex) we find out that the aspirants succeed or fail...as a team. That would make them value cooperation and teamwork pretty well. They respect knowledge and expertise, when planning an operation if someone is an expert on meltabombs and you need to take out a tank, everybody will take heed of his expertise...even if they are a captain, or a primarch(though I guess few would trup A&Os expertise in most things)...

That's my favorite fluff about the Alpha Legion, that their aspirants succeed or fail as a team.

[Xin Ceithan]

 

 

 

I know it goes against the BL fluff but I try to view the Alpha Legion in more simplistic terms - they're clever, Machiavellian, devious, hubristic and dying for a chance to stick it to the pompous loyalists who to them, are the ultimate foes. I'll have to see how their story pans out as the HH draws to a close...hopefully it'll be worth all the confusion for that.

 

 

Awesome. And perfectly aligned to classic lore. I love it.

 

Glad you approve, but I realise that - like you say - most of what I said is in fact aligned with BL fluff - my point was that it's all so confusing at the moment that I just stick to the villainous stereotype until more of their motivations come to light. :D

 

No, no, no. I meant aligned with the IA article / classic lore. Not so much with recent novel series AL perspectives.

 

I dig your take on it.

I so dare you to put an Alpha Legion cell like that in your Black Legion books

 

 

Anyway, I thought the FW is much closer to this. There is this part where Roboute dresses down the Legion for making a needlessly complicated and prolonged campaign and Alpharius remarking it would have been " too easy" other wise.

To me , the whole "for the Emperor" thing always will be the Legion rationalizing their turning to Horus as an outwardly genuine decision to serve the bigger picture but in the end just too convenient an excuse to pass up the chance at facing the only challenging opponent in their minds after all - the other legions. In the end, they are all too smart and too sneaky gigs for their own good...

[Trevak Dal]

Another cool bit was the XX guy in Deliverance Lost who inadvertently taught the Ravenguard he was with the Alpha Legion technique of fighting another astartes.

[Xin Ceithan]

Another cool bit was the XX guy in Deliverance Lost who inadvertently taught the Ravenguard he was with the Alpha Legion technique of fighting another astartes.

I am still undecided if this shows how deeply imprinted the need and training to fight other Astartes is in XX Legionaries or if it should be considered one of the biggest FXx Ups in a Legion we are supposed to believe is preparing their operatives for basically every contingency along with a focus on infiltration and covert ops but has an operative so self unaware that it should basically scream out "look at what is wrong with me" at those around him....

 

(But then again, Gav Thorpe wrote a short in which a Night Lord finds Corax scary....probably not on the Night Haunter's speed dialing selection, that one. But thatshould not be derailing this thread now. Please.)

[Slips]

Or.... The Legionnaire could have done it intentionally? Maybe?

[Hesh Kadesh]

 

Another cool bit was the XX guy in Deliverance Lost who inadvertently taught the Ravenguard he was with the Alpha Legion technique of fighting another astartes.

I am still undecided if this shows how deeply imprinted the need and training to fight other Astartes is in XX Legionaries or if it should be considered one of the biggest FXx Ups in a Legion we are supposed to believe is preparing their operatives for basically every contingency along with a focus on infiltration and covert ops but has an operative so self unaware that it should basically scream out "look at what is wrong with me" at those around him....

 

(But then again, Gav Thorpe wrote a short in which a Night Lord finds Corax scary....probably not on the Night Haunter's speed dialing selection, that one. But thatshould not be derailing this thread now. Please.)

 

Another writer could have done that justice. Gav Thorpe? His version of a horror movie is more like reading a screenplay of the Human Centipede, as opposed to something like Damnation Game by Clive Barker. Or playing Doom and thinking you're playing a Horror game, playing Until Dawn, as opposed to Amnesia the Dark Descent.

 

It ticks the boxes, but it just ain't scary. Or good.

[Xenith]

Or.... The Legionnaire could have done it intentionally? Maybe?

 

Nothing helps with being accepted than helping and sharing knowledge.

 

Dont forget Thiel was contemplating Astartes v astartes warfare too.

[Xin Ceithan]

Maybe I do not recall that correctly, but I do not remember that scene as a master mind's plot to gain the trust of the Ravens.

 

And maybe we shouldn't dwell too much on "Deliverance Lost" too much. ;)

[goosey_j]

And maybe we shouldn't dwell too much on "Deliverance Lost" too much.

Agreed, that book was god awful.