Lamenters removed from codex Blood Angels

[Guardsman1275]

While I was looking through the 7th edition codex I saw no mention of the Lamenters in the list of Blood Angels successor chapters, does this mean that GW has retconned them or has their luck been so bad GW forgot about them?

[Warsmith Aznable]

The author probably just felt like highlighting other chapters. I doubt it means a retcon.

Probably they felt that the Badab books covered them well enough.

[Guardsman1275]

I guess, but it feels like kicking a diseased, orphaned, depressed, crippled puppy cpnsidering the famously bad luck the lamenters have hat

[Dont-Be-Haten]

They are quoted in passing under the SUCCESSOR CHAPTERS, next to the Knights of Blood on page 24.  (which has me hopeful for a supplement/campaign)

"Some, such as the Lamenters or Knights of Blood, have wandered far on stranger paths..." 7th ed. Blood Angels codex pg. 24

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I think a bigger problem is the gamers' reaction to the Lamenters' in-universe portrayal. In games, you're supposed to identify with the player character, and in 'Warhammer 40,000', you're supposed to think of yourself as one of the Space Marines on the table. Who thinks of themselves as the LOSER? Who intentionally plays TO LOSE, to remain in-character?

 

In portraying the Lamenters as losers, Games Workshop made it so no one wants to play as the Lamenters. The problem wouldn't be so acute if the Lamenters were just underdogs, waiting for a chance to shine; sadly, Games Workshop failed to give the Chapter the chance it needed, and after 20+ years of seeing the Chapter portrayed as losers, even Lamenters players have lost patience and decided to play a Chapter that can WIN.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

I don't know if that's necessarily the case, Bjorn ... seems like Lamenters are still fairly popular. Not nearly as popular as the Flesh Tearers, when it comes to successors, but I'd say they are still one of the most popular BA successors after the FT judging by the B&C and just general web wandering. They have lost a lot but I don't see them as losers, since they keep their chins up and manfully carry on despite their losses. I don't see why anyone would purposely lose with Lamenters to remain in character -- they still win plenty of individual battles I'm sure.

 

The larger problem may be the general waning of BA popularity I suppose due to having a chronically underperforming codex. I've yet to see a BA or BA successor chapter at any of the local tournaments I've attended.

 

That will all change when the Angels Sorrowful storm onto the scene this summer!

[Warsmith Aznable]

I play Lamenters and I always play to win.

 

I have no idea where anyone would get the idea it should be otherwise, since I'm not a GM and my army isn't the designated NPCs.

[Boudan]

Yeah, basically no not at all.

[greycat]

I had a guy who constantly lost games as he was very much a fluff player and just had terrible luck. He made a lamenters army because he felt it suited his way of playing ie losing.

[Lucien Eilam]

They were hardly going to focus on a Chapter that doesn't wear Blood Angels bling right after releasing a range of blingtastic Blood Angels miniatures.

[Xenith]

Lamenters do no suffer from the flaw, or field any of the units associated with the Blood Angels.

 

The BA codex is totally inappropriate to use them.

 

Their flaw changed.

[Lucien Eilam]

Lamenters do no suffer from the flaw, or field any of the units associated with the Blood Angels.

Per Badab War, they'd started to fall to the Black Rage, and had a Sanguinary Guard. I think there's a Baal Predator shown in there too. They just dress vanilla.

[shandwen]

 

Lamenters do no suffer from the flaw, or field any of the units associated with the Blood Angels.

Per Badab War, they'd started to fall to the Black Rage, and had a Sanguinary Guard. I think there's a Baal Predator shown in there too. They just dress vanilla.

I could be wroong but I believe the current fluff says that they thought they had beat it but have started showing signs of it again.

[Warsmith Aznable]

 

The BA codex is totally inappropriate to use them.

 

Forge World disagrees, so there is that.

[Charlo]

I wouldn't call them Losers? If anything I've only ever heard people praise them for being a different kind of Astartes! Grim determination without OTT zeal etc. It'd a refreshing break in the fluff :)

[Quixus]

Lamenters do no suffer from the flaw, or field any of the units associated with the Blood Angels.

Are you sure? No DC maybe before Badab, but what about Sanguinary Guard, Sanguinary Priests, Furioso Dreads and Librarian Dreads?

[Lucien Eilam]

the Lamenters have always been recognisable in terms of organisation, ritual and special equipment as bearing the unique hallmarks of a Blood Angels Successor Chapter.

 

the Chapter does retain a few cherished examples of Sanguinary relics such as the Glaives Encarmine and the Angelus pattern weapons

 

Land Raiders and Baal Predators are less common with them than with other Blood Angels successors

 

their Sanguinary Priesthood (which takes the role of the Chapter's Apothecarion) holds a particularly prominent role and is known by them as the Calix

 

Unprecedented numbers of the Lamenters succumbed to the Black Rage in the bloody struggle.

 

The successor Chapters invariably maintain a Sanguinary Guard and Death Company of their own, following the same colour schemes as those laid down by the Blood Angels. The only exception are the Angels Encarmine who adorn both these specialist units in alabaster white armour.

[Bartali]

I think a bigger problem is the gamers' reaction to the Lamenters' in-universe portrayal. In games, you're supposed to identify with the player character, and in 'Warhammer 40,000', you're supposed to think of yourself as one of the Space Marines on the table. Who thinks of themselves as the LOSER? Who intentionally plays TO LOSE, to remain in-character?

 

In portraying the Lamenters as losers, Games Workshop made it so no one wants to play as the Lamenters. The problem wouldn't be so acute if the Lamenters were just underdogs, waiting for a chance to shine; sadly, Games Workshop failed to give the Chapter the chance it needed, and after 20+ years of seeing the Chapter portrayed as losers, even Lamenters players have lost patience and decided to play a Chapter that can WIN.

 

What's this winning and loosing ? I play to Forge the Narrative as Uncle Jervis tells me.

[Quixus]

That's what I thought. Thanks.

[Edit]this was in response to Lucien Eilam's post[/Edit]

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Personally I have a lot of mixed emotions about the Lamenters. I love their back story, and how hard-nosed and noble they are. They are a bit too stubborn, for my tastes. They seem to have a more vanilla-marine feel to them compared to their progenitors. They do however seem to do better when they aren't relying on others for help. This is just my interpretation of the Lamenters.

They resist the red thirst uncannily, and it takes a lot for them to succumb to the black rage. The biggest thing keeping them from codex compliance is their constant lack of numbers. Even against insurmountable odds, they triumph, only at great costs, many times. I don't see them as losers. Where other Adeptus Astartes would not get involved to save the worlds of mankind, they jump in, albeit foolhardily sometimes, just to save the mortals of the Imperium.

I have been toying with a small Lamenters force, to go back to my roots, in a since, for when i first started 40k. Being a Narrative player, one of the cool things is, you can take the gaps in the time lines and have a lot of leeway with them. So who knows, maybe without having to worry about keeping others safe, they go ham on some bugs, and don't lose many astartes, maybe they pull up on some Ork infested hulk and just nuke them in Void War, etc, etc. 

[Guardsman1275]

Right now they have 3 companies left, though it is not clear which these are, if I had to guess I would say that they are the first company and two battle companies, since they are not allowed neophytes, so no scouts, and the first company are all veterans, so if anymone would have survived a 100 year war against xenos they would. On another note has it been revealed why they did not show up on baal?

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Don't be hatin' on the Lamenters. They have Sanguinary priests, Sanguinary Guard, and their Chapter Master goes into a berzerk fury when he's wounded ("Rage Unto Death" special rule -- Malakim Phoros and his unit get Rage after he takes his first wound). That's all good enough for me. They're fellow Sons of Sanguinius.

 

Oh, and even if their control is uncanny, it's not infallible ...

 

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/1/15/Death_Company_Armour.jpg

 

'nuff said.

 

P.S. that Death Company pic is from Imperial Armour, not some fan fiction.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Oh I know that they ARE scions of Sanguinius, and I've read the badab wars. I know about their council and the sanguinary guard and death company, as well as their priests. I use Malakim Phoros as the chapter master of my vermillion tears. My point is, they themselves in the lore act much more like the codex compliant chapters rather than the Blood Angels. Especially during the early days of their founding. It isn't until the badab war and afterwards that they start to take on a more blood Angels perspective and even then it isn't like the flesh tearers, blood drinkers, or even knights of blood. It is all about interpretation though. And mine is slightly different than others. Like in Death of Integrity we see into the blood drinkers' chapter and it is much different from the Nova Marines. That is how I compare the lamenters to the other chapters of the blood Angels, they are just different enough.

[Warsmith Aznable]

Oh I know that they ARE scions of Sanguinius, and I've read the badab wars. I know about their council and the sanguinary guard and death company, as well as their priests. I use Malakim Phoros as the chapter master of my vermillion tears. My point is, they themselves in the lore act much more like the codex compliant chapters rather than the Blood Angels. Especially during the early days of their founding. It isn't until the badab war and afterwards that they start to take on a more blood Angels perspective and even then it isn't like the flesh tearers, blood drinkers, or even knights of blood. It is all about interpretation though. And mine is slightly different than others. Like in Death of Integrity we see into the blood drinkers' chapter and it is much different from the Nova Marines. That is how I compare the lamenters to the other chapters of the blood Angels, they are just different enough.

 

I wouldn't disagree. When I first started in on my small force of Lamenters I really wasn't sure whether to use BA or SM, but I went with BA because of the FW books made that assumption.

 

I think either way is fine.

[Guardsman1275]

What chapter tactics would you use if you used the SM book? I am planning on using the BA codex, but what would you use?