Red Book Update Wishlist

[Terminus]

So book 6 is going to really shake up the Legions with new Rites of War and organizational charts for the blackshields and shattered legions, but I was wondering what changes everyone would like to see in the next edition of the Legion red book.

 

The weakest section by far are the troops, which is a shame, especially with the cheaper entry provided by BoC.  So most of my most wanted changes revolve around improving the troops. Give Breachers free melta-bombs as part of their standard kit.  Let tactical marines move and still use fury of the legion. Make all jump pack troops 5 points cheaper.  Bam, all three main troop choices much more viable and no longer dead weight brought just for compulsory scoring units.  This also has a nice side-effect of making Destroyers more affordable. Recon squads I have no idea how to make interesting, but I'm sure some people have more imagination in this regard. Bikes/jetbikes are okay to great for their points depending on the Legion, but with everything else improving, they probably wouldn't be broken if they shaved off some points as well.

 

The other disappointment comes from the older dreadnoughts. Walkers already suffer greatly when compared to monstrous creatures, and while the Deredeo and Leviathan are solid pieces (although you definitely pay for it), the older box dreadnoughts and even the Contemptor are sad pandas. They both need an extra attack on their profile and both need to be cheaper (especially standard Contemptor).

 

Other than that, the various slots are in great shape, except I would argue that the Dreadclaw, Deathstorm, and Kharybdis all could stand to shave 25 points (more like 50+ for the latter).  Then I would like the Alpha Legion Headhunters and Laernean terminators to get access to combi-weapons, like the vanilla units of which they are supposedly an improved version, but now we're getting into Legion specifics.

 

What say you?

[depthcharge12]

Dark Angel legion powers to be OP as heck so I can p0wn all teh noobs. Just kidding of course, I like an uphill battle :P

 

I'd like to see assault marines dropped in points and made more appealing. Actually I'd love to see an overhaul on the troops section due to the changing nature of the game that started out with only things like twin Kheres contemptors, but have led up to things like Scorpii and Levi dreads.

[Noserenda]

Recon Marines are pretty handy for my Iron Warriors, they are just hilariously expensive so usually the first things dropped from my lists :( Especially Sniper rifle ones! 

Similarly Jump packs and Medusa seem over costed and a few things like Rapiers and Scorpius need a price boost (I say, using them regularly)

+1 On the dreadnought buff too, a local campaign weekend recently gave all Legion dreads the current marine stats and the suddenly became useful before inevitably dying  :D

[Count Douclar]

Would recon marines be any better as a choice if they were not support (ie: can be taken as compulsory troops)?

 

And yes, cheaper jump pack infantry.

[DuskRaider]

I've always advocated for Breachers to either get a huge points drop or gain Veteran traits like the first edition of Betrayal had printed "in error", aka they tested it and decided not to go through with it, but never edited it prior to print... Assault Marines need a point reduction as well. Tactical Marines are perfect as is, the limitations on Fury of the Legion are there for balance purposes.

[Caillum]

I've been doing a bit of work on this subject actually. Here's my ideas:

 

Legion Praetor:

- add "may exchange bolt pistol/chainsword for a chainaxe... +2 points".

- change Scimitar Jetbike to 35 points.

- Master of the Legion 3rd paragraph should read: "If the army's Warlord (see the Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook) has the Master of the Legion special rule, they may roll twice on their chosen Warlord Traits chart (re-rolling any doubled result) and select which of the two results they wish to use."

- Master of the Legion 5th paragraph should read: "Only one Rite of War may be used by a detachment, regardless of whether multiple characters with this rule are included, and the Rite of War chosen only affects the detachment the character is drawn from. However, allied forces eligible to do so may use different rites or none at all - effects do not carry over to an Allied Detachment from the Primary Detachment or vice versa."

 

Legion Centurion:

- add "may exchange bolt pistol/chainsword for a chainaxe... +2 points".

- add "A Terminator may take a grenade harness... +10 points".

 

Legion Command Squad:

- change combi-bolter option to combi-weapon.

- change Scimitar Jetbikes to 30 points each.

- change combat shields to 3 points each.

- add "Any Space Marine Chosen may exchange their bolt pistol & combat blade for a pair of lightning claws... +20 points".

 

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad:

- let Sergeant swap his bolt pistol (instead of his bolter) for a plasma pistol.

 

Legion Destroyer Squad:

- reduce base cost by 25 points. 5 points less per additional marine.

- change Jump Packs to 50 points for the whole unit.

- change hand flamer to 5 points each.

- add "Sergeant may exchange a single bolt pistol for a plasma pistol... +15 points or a Volkite serpenta/hand flamer... +5 points each".

 

Legion Mortis Dreadnought:

- add Dreadnought Drop Pod as a Dedicated Transport.

- add ability to use Helical Targeting Array from start of game.

 

Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought:

- add Dreadnought Drop Pod as a Dedicated Transport.

- add ability to use Helical Targeting Array from start of game.

 

Legion Tactical Squad:

- let Sergeant swap his bolt pistol (instead of his bolter) for a plasma pistol.

 

Legion Breacher Siege Squad:

- discounted melta bombs - 50 points to equip the whole unit.

- Slow & Purposeful added to Hardened Power Armour rules.

- let Sergeant swap his bolt pistol (instead of his bolter) for a plasma pistol.

(MAYBE add Spartan as a Dedicated Transport)

 

Legion Assault Squad:

- reduce base cost by 50 points. 5 points less per additional marine.

- discounted melta bombs - 50 points to equip the whole unit.

 

Legion Reconnaissance Squad:

- reduce base cost by 25 points. 5 points less per additional marine.

- discounted melta bombs - 25 points to equip the whole unit.

 

Legion Seeker Squad:

- let Sergeant swap his bolt pistol (instead of his bolter) for a plasma pistol.

 

Legion Outrider Squad:

- change twin-linked flamer to 10 points.

- change twin-linked meltagun to 20 points.

- change twin-linked plasma gun to 20 points.

 

Legion Attack Bike Squadron:

- add Eternal Warrior special rule.

 

Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron:

- add Outriders 1-in-3 option for a power weapon/pistol.

 

Legion Deathstorm Drop Pod:

- reduce base cost by 15 points.

 

Legion Heavy Support Squad:

- Slow & Purposeful added to Hardened Power Armour rules.

 

Legion Fire Raptor Gunship

- change "may exchange its 2 quad heavy bolters for 2 Reaper autocannon batteries... +10 points."

 

Achilles-Alpha Pattern Land Raider:

- add "Options (all)" from Land Raider Battle Squadron (where applicable).

 

Legion Vindicator:

- update to current rules with laser destroyer array & power capacitor.

- add "May take a siege shield... +10 points".

 

Legion Kharybdis Assault Claw:

- reduce base cost by 35 points.

[Terminus]

50 point melta bombs for breachers is no discount when you most often want to run 10 in a dreadclaw. At least make it 25 like Veterans. And they would still be too expensive. Maybe with siege mantlets (reroll all arm saves rather than just vs template)?

 

S&P would make graviton guns auto-take, but I like it better than the current rules for hardened armour. Getting that on heavy support squads would be pretty amazing.

[Caillum]

I don't think 25 points for melta bombs on a potentially 20-man squad is a good idea. I know this is wish-listing, but I think you're pigeonholing Breachers by saying, "10 in a Dreadclaw only". Hence the same formula that Veterans/Destroyers have. Base cost is 5 per model, but bump up the squad and you get a whole lot more value out of it.

 

Yeah, boarding shields should just be re-roll all armour saves. Makes sense that they catch bullets better than Tactical Marines.

 

S&P on Hardened Power Armour would make Breachers a genuinely attractive choice, rather than just 10-man Tactical Squads. Same goes for Heavy Support Squads (for a fee). Deredeos, Scorpii, melta-Preds, etc. would all have some real competition. It wouldn't make either of them game breaking - they can't Run or Overwatch, so they'll still have negatives. Plasma guns become slighty more attractive too.

 

If look at the gear on a Breacher, they're actually costed quite well. The gear just needs to be tweaked a little. :)

[Marshal Loss]

- Justaerin get a significant points drop, rules redone completely or simply 5 for the existing price. From what I've heard from the open day in October the points reduction is what sounds likely but for now, it remains a mystery.

- Destroyers changed somewhat. A small reduction would do them wonders, especially on the jump pack tax like you mentioned (I liked Caillum's suggestion)

 

I'd agree that the Kharybdis needs a reduction, but I think the Dreadclaw is fine where it is now. I would certainly not complain if it received a reduction as an avid Dreadclaw user however!

[shandwen]

If they included all the new units... kinda goes without saying, but yeah.

[Tychii]

Rerolling 3+ armour saves on a 20 man unit would be way too much for the points that they cost.

Having a 20 man unit with melta bombs has its own huge issue imo. for ten man squads it works at 50points, if you wanted the whole squad you might get a discount at 75 for a 20man squad.

S&P is an interesting idea on them but removing over watch kind of sucks thematically for them.

 

Adding S&P on heavy squads would be way too good as a 10man heavy squad is still really strong and some lists still use them.

Bleachers have there place in 30k, it just happends to be in zone mortalis.

 

Assault squads are getting a rumored price break, hopefully that transferres over to all jump pack units. At the moment a 10man assault squad is the exact same points as a 10 man raptor squad, which is totally insane. They are clearly over costed, as a jump pack is probably half as good as a bike, while costing pretty similar points.

[Flint13]

+This is a rehash of things that "need" to be fixed, that have already been discussed ad nauseam, and has already devolved to wish listing. We're all done here.+