In Your Opinion, How Accurate Has Forgeworld Been So Far?

[Slips]

=] Alright, going to give this one warning: Keep on Topic and Keep it Friendly or the Melta/Volkite/Phosphex will be brought out [=

[ThatOneMarshal]

=] Alright, going to give this one warning: Keep on Topic and Keep it Friendly or the Melta/Volkite/Phosphex will be brought out [=

Slipstreams just a question but next time could you not use yellow? It might be because I'm a traitor but the color yellow (the color of the hated enemy) sears my eyes and makes it pretty hard to read your mod "voice". :)

 

I like the way forgeworld has done the heresy so far. They have brought life to several "bland" legions such as the imperial fists and death guard. However they messed up on a couple of legions like the alpha legion (super duper secret spy marines) though that is a change that black library is just as guilty of.

 

I personally like the change that forgeworld brought to the ultramarines. As a guy who came from 5th edition I still have a bit of a sour taste in my mouth from 5th. However I found that I liked the older ultramarine fluff and some of the new stuff. I think the Maine Reason for this is that it shows that the ultramarines have FLAWS. For example in the old fluff when the hive fleet came to ultramar I believe Marnues Calagar fasted to make up for becoming to complacent and not predicting the assault or something. It makes the character waaaay more interesting, at least for me.

[Slips]

=] Alright, going to give this one warning: Keep on Topic and Keep it Friendly or the Melta/Volkite/Phosphex will be brought out [=

Slipstreams just a question but next time could you not use yellow? It might be because I'm a traitor but the color yellow (the color of the hated enemy) sears my eyes and makes it pretty hard to read your mod "voice". :)

Flint's got you Night Lords sorted with the Midnight blue so dont complain! Its not like I'm intentionally trying to hurt your eyes

Might use a deeper yellow.

[Wade Garrett]

They've had their ups...and they've had their "No stop WHYYY" moments, just like GW and Black Library.

 

For instance, the way "After De'Shea" and "Betrayer" presented the pre Angron War Hounds was as a Legion whose discipline was not inferior to that of the XIII or the VI. Which I for one found far superior to Forge World's "They were screaming nutjobs who waged war according to the sacred dictates of Zapp Brannigan's Big Book of War before they found Angron, afterwards they were screaming nutjobs who waged war according to the dictates of Zapp Brannigan's Big Book Of War and they all had Butcher's Nails."

 

Wow.

Such pathos.

Much tragedy.

Very fall from grace.

So dramatic arc.

Wow.

 

I have similar opinions of how they handled the Night Lords.

 

Terran VIII Legionary:

"Hello there, I am a pale skinned madman from a lightless hellhole ruled by criminals and I use terror as a weapon."

 

Nostroman VIII Legionary:

"Wow, me too! Let's be besties!"

 

And don't get me started on the idiocy of Perturabo executing a random tenth of his Legion for the crime of not being the Sons of Horus.

[HaSY]

 

 

 

A few other significant changes that come to mind...

 

In previous lore, the Imperial Fists Legion was said to have selected for successor Chapters according to the attitude of the Marines. Those who were too immersed in vengeful zeal were selected to form the Black Templars. The younger, calmer warriors formed the Crimson Fists. The remaining core of veterans who adhered to the traditional values of the Legion formed the Imperial Fists Chapter.

But now the Imperial Fists Legion has been given an entirely dedicated "Templars" Chapter (ironically around 1000 in strength), led by (now "first captain") Sigismund. So that bit of lore went out the window.

 

In their effort to downplay the Ultramarines, FW even went against their own previous material. In HH3, the Ultramarines are cited together with the Sons of Horus as having the strongest fleet after the Imperial Fists. ("[The Imperial Fists'] naval might was the greatest of any of the Legiones Astartes, and was further enhanced by the fact that many of the ships were the largest in the Imperium. Even the Sons of Horus and the Ultramarines could not rival such strength alone." - HH3, p. 64) Makes sense, since the Ultramarines have their own ship yards, after all.

However, in HH5, the Ultramarines fleet assets are described as "limited", and their naval strength as "in the mid-tier of the Legions" (HH5, p. 82), and the Ultramarines Legion was "never renowned for the number of heavy combat void craft in its service" (HH5, p. 51).

 

So, if they even contradict their own material, you can certainly not commend them for accuracy.

 

That the Iron Hands were given some importance for the early stages of the Great Crusade came somewhat out of the left field. Mainly because such a thing had simply never come up before. But then that Legion had precious little material outside of the Index startes article, which did not describe their early organisation. So it is not exactly "inaccurate". just unexpected.

 

 

I am only adressing FW right now. If we were taling about BL, the walls of text describing the changes would never end.

Regarding the Ultramarines fleet, if you are to piece them together, it is generally accepted that Ultramarines fleet has always been lacking in heavy voidship material as compared to dedicated warfleets of Sons of Horus, Imperial Fists and Dark Angels. Noted that Death Guard has quite a number of heavy voidships compared to even the Ultramarines. 

 

We can agree that:

Ultramarines fleet is limited and confined to mid tier level because they lack powerful heavy voidships in numbers, they are not to be seen to be dedicated warfleet. Given the size of the legion, Ultramarines definitely boasts a lot of ships though they are more of like, say, strike cruisers and battle barges especially. The reasons are simple, they have already been setting to level of Codex style, rapid response and boarding actions, very "Roman" style naval warfare. Fleet to fleet action is not necessary since Guilliman prefer to let Imperialis Armada to supply heavy voidships and he did not enjoy impersonal long range gunnery battles between fleets (surprise, surprise, Perturabo and Ferrus would enjoy, I think)

 

Note that below mentiones the ranking that place Ultramarines in the mid tier is calculated based on combined overall tonnage and firepower. That's what you get when you have high numbers of medium class ships. At the outbreak of Heresy, the title of the largest fleet actually belonged to Word Bearers because Abyss madness and shipbuilding spree.

''The main body of the Legion's void craft fleet was then made up of mid-scaled cruisers and smaller Battle Barges of various classes, along with substantial numbers of lighter pattern purpose-built Strike Cruisers, frigates and fast patrol cutters, all which could be produced by the shipyards of worlds across Ultramar. Although this fleet structure did allow the Legion a great deal of flexibility and range in how it deployed its many Space Marine chapters, its combined overall tonnage and firepower ranked the Ultramarines fleet in the mid-tier of the Legions, considerably behind the Imperial Fists, for example, and behind the Death Guard in terms of number of heavy capital units.''

FW has done much to enrich and vary the scale and depth of HH warfare. They should have just released a visual dictionary to warfare. When it comes to fluff, FW is pretty consistent and got them all covered. 

[Terminus]

Well, I feel most of what they added to the fluff is great apart from two points:

⋅making the Alpha Legion super secretive and underhanded from the get-go, rather than just plain inefficient, with Alpharius coming and using his unhonourable tactics to get his legion to more victories like in the old IA articles suggested.

⋅likewise, having the Ultramarines be paragons of order even before Guilliman came. From older sources, I was under the impression that before their primarch was found, the XIII^th was a mess, and that the lord of Ultramar gave them a reorganisation they much needed. That was given to the Iron Warriors, it seems.

 

Note that I'm relatively fine with that, it's just stuff that used to make more sense. I won't be one to say "In my time stuff was better"', because strictly speaking, I started the hobby when Extermination was released. They are 100% accurate in that they are the ones who write the fluff, and what they disregard of some novels I feel is for the better (such as Omegon being a mere rumour), although I can't really speak about that, having read a total of 3 BL HH books and a bunch short stories/audios.

Interesting, both of those quibbles cast aspersions on the Legions as ineffective before their Primarchs showed up, but from everything we've seen, many of the Legions were extremely successful in Crusading even before finding their fathers (except for Thousand Sons, who were all dying, and the Alpha Legion, who were ghosts).  In fact, given how I can't recall practically any Terran-born/cultured Astartes turning traitor, and the fact that the various Primarchs took pains to remove these older elements (even the goody goody ones like Corax), seems to indicate that finding their forefathers was the worst thing to happen to the vast majority of the Legions. Look at the Night Lords, World Eaters or Iron Warriors for the most egregious examples. 

 

More on topic, I like the FW stuff a lot more than anything the studio has produced since pretty much the original Index Astartes.  I still hold the Index near and dear, and try to reconcile it with the FW material whenever possible.

[Legatus]

Just a reminder that the topic was supposed to be about how accurate Forgeworld's depiction of the Horus Heresy is. I'm seeing a lot of posts just expressing their like of Forgeworld's stuff, with no bearing on the matter of accuracy at all.

 

I personally am most interested in the Ultramarines, so I have read their treatment most thoroughly of the ones covered so far. I have gone through most of the other treatments, but not in as much detail. I have adressed some issues with accuracy regarding other Legions, but I probably have missed a lot of stuff there as well.

 

 

Why is it such a problem that Ultramarines have the flaws listed in the FW book? I think it's perfectly acceptable, and if anything it makes them more down to earth. They're not perfect, nor should they be.

 

Well, to someone who had been a fan of them since 2nd Edition that would obviously be an issue. Very subjective of course. But another matter is the question of how faithful (or "accurate") Forgeworld's treatment has been compared to the older material.

 

E.g., the older material had provided very specific explanations for the Legion's growth. Forgeworld ignored this and made up other reasons (or at least one new, one altered). In this case it is worth pointing out that the FW Ultramarines are still said to have taken the fewest casualties of all the Legions. I.e. the Ultramarines are still "better" than your Marines. Just now they are because of genetics, not because of their adopted doctrines. It is not a "flaw". It's just that in previous lore, this trait was "earned", while now they were simply crafted that way from the beginning.

 

In previous lore, the difference between the Ultramarines and the Imperial Fists was that the Ultramarines embraced a doctrine that had them keep an open mind to changing battlefield conditions, while the Imperial Fists commanders were so tenacious that they refused to give any ground. Now, according to FW at least, the difference between the Ultramarines and the Imperial Fists is that the Ultramarines have Ultramarine gene-seed while the Imperial Fists have Imperial Fists gene-seed. Their modes of operation were built into them.

The Night Lords did not become a terror Legion because Curze grew up as batman/ripper in the slums of Nostramo and then taught those principles to his sons. They were genetically engineered to be a terror Legion.

 

The Ultramarines' reliance on horde tactics is also not so much a "flaw", since they still accomplished more than other Legions with those tactics. It just is not very cool. The Ultramarines from Forgeworld are not "flawed", they are unimpressive and lame.

 

 

Regarding the Ultramarines fleet, if you are to piece them together, it is generally accepted that Ultramarines fleet has always been lacking in heavy voidship material as compared to dedicated warfleets of Sons of Horus, Imperial Fists and Dark Angels. Noted that Death Guard has quite a number of heavy voidships compared to even the Ultramarines. 

We can agree that:
Ultramarines fleet is limited and confined to mid tier level because they lack powerful heavy voidships in numbers, they are not to be seen to be dedicated warfleet. Given the size of the legion, Ultramarines definitely boasts a lot of ships though they are more of like, say, strike cruisers and battle barges especially. The reasons are simple, they have already been setting to level of Codex style, rapid response and boarding actions, very "Roman" style naval warfare. Fleet to fleet action is not necessary since Guilliman prefer to let Imperialis Armada to supply heavy voidships and he did not enjoy impersonal long range gunnery battles between fleets (surprise, surprise, Perturabo and Ferrus would enjoy, I think)

Note that below mentiones the ranking that place Ultramarines in the mid tier is calculated based on combined overall tonnage and firepower. That's what you get when you have high numbers of medium class ships. At the outbreak of Heresy, the title of the largest fleet actually belonged to Word Bearers because Abyss madness and shipbuilding spree.

''The main body of the Legion's void craft fleet was then made up of mid-scaled cruisers and smaller Battle Barges of various classes, along with substantial numbers of lighter pattern purpose-built Strike Cruisers, frigates and fast patrol cutters, all which could be produced by the shipyards of worlds across Ultramar. Although this fleet structure did allow the Legion a great deal of flexibility and range in how it deployed its many Space Marine chapters, its combined overall tonnage and firepower ranked the Ultramarines fleet in the mid-tier of the Legions, considerably behind the Imperial Fists, for example, and behind the Death Guard in terms of number of heavy capital units.''

FW has done much to enrich and vary the scale and depth of HH warfare. They should have just released a visual dictionary to warfare. When it comes to fluff, FW is pretty consistent and got them all covered.

 

 

 

Yes, I know what HH5 says about the Ultramarines fleet. Thank you very much. The crucial point is that this is entirely different from how they had been described in the third HH book, where the naval strength of the Ultramarines fleet was cited as a comparison for the mighty Imperial Fists fleet. Obviosuly it would make absolutely no sense whatsoever to laud the Imperial Fists' "strongest of all Astartes fleets" for eclipsing a "mid-tier" fleet.

 

HH3:

"[The Imperial Fists'] naval might was the greatest of any of the Legiones Astartes, and was further enhanced by the fact that many of the ships were the largest in the Imperium. Even (...) the Ultramarines could not rival such strength alone."

 

HH5:

"its combined overall tonnage and firepower ranked the Ultramarines fleet in the mid-tier of the Legions".

 

That is not consistent.

 

 

⋅likewise, having the Ultramarines be paragons of order even before Guilliman came. From older sources, I was under the impression that before their primarch was found, the XIII^th was a mess, and that the lord of Ultramar gave them a reorganisation they much needed.

 

I do not recall ever reading material to that effect. The older sources (2E Codex Ultramarines, Index Astartes) describe the Legion from the point Guilliman took command. But there is nothing suggesting that the Legion prior to him taking command was anything other than ordinary.

 

---

 

 

I am curious how Forgeworld will treat the Space Wolves and the Dark Angels. Especially the Space Wolves material from Black Library has not exactly been "faithful" to the previous lore, so it will be interesting to see what FW will go with. To be honest, the last few Space Wolves Codices themselves were atrocious (introducing wolf riders and wolf sleighs...), so here is hope for a more "grounded" FW treatment.

[Commander Dawnstar]

 

Yes, I know what HH5 says about the Ultramarines fleet. Thank you very much. The crucial point is that this is entirely different from how they had been described in the third HH book, where the naval strength of the Ultramarines fleet was cited as a comparison for the mighty Imperial Fists fleet. Obviosuly it would make absolutely no sense whatsoever to laud the Imperial Fists' "strongest of all Astartes fleets" for eclipsing a "mid-tier" fleet.

 

HH3:

"[The Imperial Fists'] naval might was the greatest of any of the Legiones Astartes, and was further enhanced by the fact that many of the ships were the largest in the Imperium. Even (...) the Ultramarines could not rival such strength alone."

 

HH5:

"its combined overall tonnage and firepower ranked the Ultramarines fleet in the mid-tier of the Legions".

 

That is not consistent.

 

I can't help but notice that you're omitting the reference to the Sons of Horus in that quotation from Book Three. Isn't it possible that the writers used the Ultramarines and Sons of Horus as examples of big-name highly influential Legions on either side of the divide rather than to explicitly put them forward as having the largest fleets?

[Legatus]

What sense would that make?

 

"The Imperial Fists fleet was so strong, even a Legion with a mediocre fleet could not match them."

 

To point out that "even the Ultramarines" were unable to rival the naval strength of the Imperial Fists implies that the Ultramarines are otherwise known for their naval strength. If they weren't, then that comparison makes no sense. "Even the Ultramarines" (HH3), who were "never renowned for their number of heavy fighting ships" (HH5), could not rival the naval strength of the Imperial Fists. Well no *bleep* sherlock.

 

 

I can't help but notice that you're omitting the reference to the Sons of Horus in that quotation from Book Three.

 

I had included the full line in an earlier post. But apparently the significance of that comparison was not clear, so I emphasized the direct comparison to the Ultramarines. Neither the Sons of Horus nor the Ultramarines were able to rival the strength of the Imperial Fists' fleet alone. To omit either does not alter the significance of the other. Even the Sons of Horus could not rival the Imperial Fists' naval strength. And even the Ultramarines could not rival the Imperial Fists' naval strength.

[ZebraM]

It's just the author trying to demonstrate that the Imperial Fists are more geared towards Naval Combat to the point where their fleet is larger than a legion twice there size.

[Ishagu]

The Ultramarines controlled the largest territory, it makes absolutely no sense that their fleet wouldn't be one of, if not the biggest.

 

It's a stupid retcon

[ZebraM]

It's not stupid lol. It's not saying that they don't have a large fleet it just says that their fleet geared to naval combat as much as some of the other legions so they lack as many battleships. Fleetts aren't based on how big the legion is it's mainly based on the legions doctrine. For example the Space Wolves and the Imperial Fists are both mid-tier legions in terms of troop numbers yet they both have radically different fleet strengths because their doctrines are both radically different.

[Marshal Rohr]

Size =\= strength. The Imperial Fists were numerous and strong. The Ultramarines were just numerous. The IF article is referring to the number of ships, which only the SoH and Ultras came close to. The Ultras article is referring to the abilities of the ships, ie the ultras had a large, weak fleet. Top-tier in size, mid-tier in ability.

 

 

What's more powerful, 100 destroyers or 50 battleships?

[Ishagu]

You would need more ships just to patrol the realm of Ultramar and the 500 worlds.

[Petitioner's City]

 

In fact, given how I can't recall practically any Terran-born/cultured Astartes turning traitor, and the fact that the various Primarchs took pains to remove these older elements (even the goody goody ones like Corax), seems to indicate that finding their forefathers was the worst thing to happen to the vast majority of the Legions. 

 

 

Ahriman immediately jumped to my mind's front, but from the Night Lords major Terran traitor characters in BL include Alaster Rushal (a Revan Guard?) and Var Jahan; FW introduced several line soldiers including the gleeful Terran Vibius. For the Iron Warriors a legionary named Dionor is mentioned; the World Eaters captain Draeghar is a major character (also black!); Zardu Layak the new Word Bearer FW character, etc. It's too simplistic to think dichotomously between Terran-born and [insert world here]-born. Even wavering characters like Torghun Khan were terran. 

[Terminus]

Ahriman is a terrible, terrible example of a "traitor".  Alaster seems to have been mentally broken somehow by Sevatar. I am unaware of the other guys except for Zardu, but point taken, I suppose.  Still, there is a pretty clear line drawn between Terran-born and Primarch home world-born marines throughout pretty much all of the Legions. Lorgar and Horus went out of their way to kill most/all of the Terrans, even with dudes like Zardu around. I think this is just another example of FW's inconsistencies with their own fluff. :P

 

The Ultramarines controlled the largest territory, it makes absolutely no sense that their fleet wouldn't be one of, if not the biggest.

It's a stupid retcon

I don't know, they are organizers, I'm sure they had more than their fair share of Imperial Navy (or whatever it was back then) resources.

[Legatus]

Another significant inaccuracy of the FW books:

 

In the 2nd Edition Codex Chaos Space Marines, it was described that certain weapons had been developed after the Heresy, or at the very least had been extremely rare or only in an experimental stage at the time. Specifically those items were Multimeltas, Plasma Cannons (on Infantry), Stormbolters, Meltabombs, Assault Cannons, Cyclone Missile Launchers, Thunder Hammers, Storm Shields and Power Swords (rare).

With the exception of Meltabombs, Multimeltas and power swords, Chaos Marines in 40K 6th and 7th Edition still do not have acces to those weapons.

 

Yet almost all of those weapons are available in the FW Legion army list. At least Thunder Hammers, Storm Shields and Cyclones are described as experimental weapons, but infantry based Plasma Cannons are apparently not limited at all. Power Swords seem to be in abundance.

 

Also, Jump Packs were described as rare during the time of the Heresy. They still are described as having been rare in the 6th Edition Codex Chaos Space Marines. Yet in the FW Legion army list, Assault squads (coming with jump pack by default) are a Troops choice.

[Remus Ventanus.]

So because the ultramarines arnt the best at everything, or dont have the most of everything, makes it bad lore...? 

[Wade Garrett]

Bloody Khârn the Bloody Betrayer was born on Terra. For that matter, so were Sahaal and a goodly number of the Night Lords who fell from the Emperor's light (especially given that Curze reacted to the suggestion that he purge his Legion of the disloyal with knee slapping belly laughs and complimenting Lorgar and Angron of their dry delivery of a punchline).

[Remus Ventanus.]

Another significant inaccuracy of the FW books:

 

In the 2nd Edition Codex Chaos Space Marines, it was described that certain weapons had been developed after the Heresy, or at the very least had been extremely rare or only in an experimental stage at the time. Specifically those items were Multimeltas, Plasma Cannons (on Infantry), Stormbolters, Meltabombs, Assault Cannons, Cyclone Missile Launchers, Thunder Hammers, Storm Shields and Power Swords (rare).

With the exception of Meltabombs, Multimeltas and power swords, Chaos Marines in 40K 6th and 7th Edition still do not have acces to those weapons.

 

Yet almost all of those weapons are available in the FW Legion army list. At least Thunder Hammers, Storm Shields and Cyclones are described as experimental weapons, but infantry based Plasma Cannons are apparently not limited at all. Power Swords seem to be in abundance.

 

Also, Jump Packs were described as rare during the time of the Heresy. They still are described as having been rare in the 6th Edition Codex Chaos Space Marines. Yet in the FW Legion army list, Assault squads (coming with jump pack by default) are a Troops choice.

The old lore isnt cannon anymore. This has been a fact for quite some time. FW was not the ones to even make this change, BL was.

[Marshal Rohr]

Man I bet you hate that auxilia list then.

[Legatus]

So because the ultramarines arnt the best at everything, or dont have the most of everything, makes it bad lore...?

 

It is not so much a question of good ro bad and more a question of previous material vs. Forgeworld material. You know, "accuracy", as per the origiinal inquiry of the OP.

 

The explanation for the Ultramarine Legion's growth is definitely a different one. A specialisation on horde tactics is completely new. And the description of the "strength" of the Ultramarines fleet varies from FW book to FW book.

 

 

The old lore isnt cannon anymore. This has been a fact for quite some time. FW was not the ones to even make this change, BL was.

 

Jump packs are still described as having been rare in the current Codex Chaos Space Marines. That Codex also does not include most of the weapon options noted as havin been developed later in 2nd Edition.

 

In 2nd Edition, Chaos Marines did not have infantry based Plasma Cannons. And we were told that that was because that weaponry had not yet been developed back when the Legions turned traitor.

 

In 6th Edition, Chaos Marines still do not have infantry based Plasma Cannons. A reason is not provided. So what, they just randomly don't use those weapons anymore?

[Ishagu]

 

 

Another significant inaccuracy of the FW books:

 

In the 2nd Edition Codex Chaos Space Marines, it was described that certain weapons had been developed after the Heresy, or at the very least had been extremely rare or only in an experimental stage at the time. Specifically those items were Multimeltas, Plasma Cannons (on Infantry), Stormbolters, Meltabombs, Assault Cannons, Cyclone Missile Launchers, Thunder Hammers, Storm Shields and Power Swords (rare).

With the exception of Meltabombs, Multimeltas and power swords, Chaos Marines in 40K 6th and 7th Edition still do not have acces to those weapons.

 

Yet almost all of those weapons are available in the FW Legion army list. At least Thunder Hammers, Storm Shields and Cyclones are described as experimental weapons, but infantry based Plasma Cannons are apparently not limited at all. Power Swords seem to be in abundance.

 

Also, Jump Packs were described as rare during the time of the Heresy. They still are described as having been rare in the 6th Edition Codex Chaos Space Marines. Yet in the FW Legion army list, Assault squads (coming with jump pack by default) are a Troops choice.

The old lore isnt cannon anymore. This has been a fact for quite some time. FW was not the ones to even make this change, BL was.

The standard GW lore, which defers SIGNIFICANTLY from what is written in the FW HH books is still Canon, not the other way round.

 

At this point the two are almost like alternative universes.

[Remus Ventanus.]

 

 

Another significant inaccuracy of the FW books:

 

In the 2nd Edition Codex Chaos Space Marines, it was described that certain weapons had been developed after the Heresy, or at the very least had been extremely rare or only in an experimental stage at the time. Specifically those items were Multimeltas, Plasma Cannons (on Infantry), Stormbolters, Meltabombs, Assault Cannons, Cyclone Missile Launchers, Thunder Hammers, Storm Shields and Power Swords (rare).

With the exception of Meltabombs, Multimeltas and power swords, Chaos Marines in 40K 6th and 7th Edition still do not have acces to those weapons.

 

Yet almost all of those weapons are available in the FW Legion army list. At least Thunder Hammers, Storm Shields and Cyclones are described as experimental weapons, but infantry based Plasma Cannons are apparently not limited at all. Power Swords seem to be in abundance.

 

Also, Jump Packs were described as rare during the time of the Heresy. They still are described as having been rare in the 6th Edition Codex Chaos Space Marines. Yet in the FW Legion army list, Assault squads (coming with jump pack by default) are a Troops choice.

The old lore isnt cannon anymore. This has been a fact for quite some time. FW was not the ones to even make this change, BL was.

The standard GW lore, which defers SIGNIFICANTLY from what is written in the FW HH books is still Canon, not the other way round.

 

At this point the two are almost like alternative universes.

 

Did FW have much of a choice tho? Black library had been writing the hh novels with all of the un allowed weapons, FW sorta had to follow suit. And GW is allowing this to happen, so they must be happy with what FW is doing

[Slips]

Also, as has been stated by a few GW Design Team members, including some from the FW Team, the design meetings for "Where do we go from here?" includes all three branches of GW: Prime, FW and BL.

 

So if anything changes in the fluff, its been agreed upon by all parties.

 

Meaning that whatever Forgeworld or BL does with the Fluff, GW Prime is ok with since they signed off on the idea.