Weird question re: plasma talons

[dtse]

hey guys, was just thinking...and forgive me, i think its a weird question:

 

 

so shooting plasma talons.  If you are in range, you can rapid fire, AND they are twin linked...cool...but 1's are not cool...

 

so lets say, you really don't wanna lose anymore guys to get's hot, I believe, you can choose not to rapid fire, but can you choose not to twin-link? lets say you roll 6 dice, and get 1 hit, and 5 misses....obviously it's good that you can reroll 1s to avoid gets hot, but rerolling dice also gives you chance to get more gets hot.....

 

weird question, i know....generally, you would be yea, Theres a much bigger chance of getting a hit, than a 1 on reroll...

 

 

but let's say you are snap-firing (as often happens because we're always jinking)....when is it not worth rerolling?  are you able to not twinlink voluntarily? 

[FarFromSam]

I don't have my BrB, buuuuuuuut, I'd feel like I was cheating my opponent if I did this out of the blue. Maybe before the game starts stop and get his take on the question. If in doubt, whip it out (the rules I mean).

[Lostrael]

The twin-link rule says "it re-rolls all failed To Hit rolls". 

It does not say you "can choose to".

And looking at the weapon models you have always 2 glued together when twin-linked. So one of them overheats. 

 

You still have an armor save.

[jlmb_123]

I'd always take the reroll.. The chance of getting a single 1 on five dice is 3125/7776 (if I'm right) so you've about a 50/50 chance of getting ones amongst your dice. However, you're also wiping the slate clean in that, instead of having 5/6th of your dice being ones, you're lessening your "chance" of ones (which you're already suffering from anyway). I'd take a reroll of a bad result any day (I do play Blood Bowl, though, so I'm used to them!).

[Quixus]

Why would you not want to twin-link? Gets hot only happens on a roll of 1. If you roll a 1 and then reroll it due to twin-linked, you have not rolled a 1 and so the model does not suffer a wound. It says so explicitly in the Gets hot rule.

If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule), a Wound is only suffered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1; it may also re-roll Gets Hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll To Hit.

 

So instead of a 1/6 chance of a wound you have a 1/36 chance.

[dtse]

i understand, but i was more talking about you rerolling misses that were not 1s, and getting more 1s....so by rerolling you run risk of getting more 1s....and as I said, especially in situation where you are snap firing, so you need 6s, so your original roll you have high likelihood of needing twinlinked to hit....

 

im not arguing the awesomeness of twinlinking, and as previously replied, its not a voluntary choice....just a weird question that popped up

[Harleqvin]

Yeah, like Lostrael said. BRB says "it re-rols missed to hit rolls." Page 174.
So you have to re-roll them.

[Quixus]

i understand, but i was more talking about you rerolling misses that were not 1s, and getting more 1s....so by rerolling you run risk of getting more 1s....and as I said, especially in situation where you are snap firing, so you need 6s, so your original roll you have high likelihood of needing twinlinked to hit....

 

im not arguing the awesomeness of twinlinking, and as previously replied, its not a voluntary choice....just a weird question that popped up

Read the rule again. The weapon only gets hot if the re-roll is also a 1. So you have no chance at all of suffering a wound if you re-roll a 2-5.

[dtse]

 

i understand, but i was more talking about you rerolling misses that were not 1s, and getting more 1s....so by rerolling you run risk of getting more 1s....and as I said, especially in situation where you are snap firing, so you need 6s, so your original roll you have high likelihood of needing twinlinked to hit....

 

im not arguing the awesomeness of twinlinking, and as previously replied, its not a voluntary choice....just a weird question that popped up

Read the rule again. The weapon only gets hot if the re-roll is also a 1. So you have no chance at all of suffering a wound if you re-roll a 2-5.

 

yea i know lol...what im saying is if you need 6s to hit cause your snapfiring, then you have to reroll everything but a 6....and on the reroll, you have just as much chance to get hot, as you have of hitting....

 

anyway, the argument is moot cause you have to reroll...it was more a philosophical question, if you could CHOOSE to twinlink or not, would you 

[Doctor Perils]

What Quixus meant is that the gets hot only applies if both the first roll and the reroll are 1. So if you roll 2-5 on the first roll, you are clear of the gets hot rule.

[Hjarl]

No. Any reroll of a 2-5 that turns into a 1 does NOT trigger gets hot :)

 

Pew pew pew i rapid fire 5 plasma talons for 10 shot at some flying beasty. Its hard to hit so i need 6's. I roll two 6's, a 1 and seven 2-5's. The single 1 i reroll and it turns into lets say 3. I then take the seven dice that were either 2,3,4 or 5. Lets say i roll another 6, two 3's, a 4 and three 1's. This example will give me 3 hits and 0 gets hot. Why? Because rerolls cannot turn a none-gets hot result into one:) its all win with those talons...hope you understand now:)

[Lostrael]

Why would you not want to twin-link? Gets hot only happens on a roll of 1. If you roll a 1 and then reroll it due to twin-linked, you have not rolled a 1 and so the model does not suffer a wound. It says so explicitly in the Gets hot rule.

If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule), a Wound is only suffered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1; it may also re-roll Gets Hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll To Hit.

So instead of a 1/6 chance of a wound you have a 1/36 chance.

Hmm our gaming group has never played it this way... I need to discuss this with them.

You have no idea how often I killed my own troops with plasma... has become a running gag.

[Hjarl]

Not much to discuss unless you wanna house rule TL plasma weapons to be way worse than they are as pr rules as written;)

[Lostrael]

Not much to discuss unless you wanna house rule TL plasma weapons to be way worse than they are as pr rules as written;)

True, but we all got it wrong. So we were a happy exploding plasma group.

[dtse]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok, so if it was not 1 on teh first roll, the reroll does not get hot, regardless....i did not know that, and Im sure like lots of people (including on youtube batreps of reputable players i might add), they play a reroll of 1 gets hot....

 

well this thread was worth it in the end then! haha

[Knight Angels]

Can someone please make reference to the rulebook? In my gaming group we play also with 'every rolled 1gets hot', no matter when rolled

 

Edit. Thanks quixos. I missed that

[Quixus]

I quoted the rule above. It's in the Special Rules section under Gets Hot and Re-rolls. Page numbers may vary from medium to medium.

[Isiah]

Page 164 of the hard copy version. Quixus has quoted it perfectly :yes:

 

Cheers

I

[Isiah]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok, so if it was not 1 on teh first roll, the reroll does not get hot, regardless...

 

All the rule is saying is that you ignore the first 1 if you are twin-linked. But a re-rolled 1 and you potentially melt. That's RAW.

 

But, that kinda means you can't Gets Hot on the re-roll if the first roll wasn't a 1. Which is surprising as it's failing to follow the primary rule: that each To Hit roll of 1 results in a Gets Hot <_<.

 

It's badly worded and contradictory. Just my opinion of course.

 

Cheers

I

[dtse]

i havent read the rule, but i guess, like a lot of GW rules, you could read it a couple of ways.  Maybe fluff wise it goes back to really what twin-linking is....is it both firing at same time, so if one side misses, the other hits, in which case, technically, you should be able to gets hot on either roll....or are they both fired and you get reroll because they fire again or something like that? It would seem that if you fire both guns, they shoudl both be able to get hot, and if you fire either gun twice, likewise

[Interrogator Stobz]

 "A wound is only suffered if the to hit re-roll is also a 1". --- It HAS to be a 1 on both rolls for each dice (each shot), not 2-6 then 1, and not 1 then 2-6, treat each dice (shot) as mutually exclusive events. Group rolling is not the correct way to calculate it (it's just faster).

 

Each shot has a 1/36 (3%) chance of getting hot regardless of the BS or chance to hit. Then failing a save is 4/6 (33%) gives a whacking 1% chance of taking a wound ALWAYS!!! (for 3+ save bikers).

[Quixus]

But, that kinda means you can't Gets Hot on the re-roll if the first roll wasn't a 1. Which is surprising as it's failing to follow the primary rule: that each To Hit roll of 1 results in a Gets Hot .

You get one to hit roll per shot. Even with a reroll that is still only one to-hit roll. So that rule is not broken. The reroll section merely clarifies how a Gets hot result is determined i.e. two consecutive 1s.

[Wraith776]

Well you learn something new every day! Knowing that would have helped me a fair few times haha.

[MasterRaath]

Man Ive been referring to black knights as "suicide knights" because i cant read a rulebook. Time to go buy a box or 5...

[Jazzhands]

Yep. When i roll my rerolls i pick up any 1s first and roll them separately as they are the only rolls with the potential to still get hot