The DW venting thread

[Harleqvin]

I think it's because people want to be able to do pure Deathwing army Battle-forged and not as unbound. Probably because of tournaments and then there are people who don't want to play unbound games who they play against, I am guessing.

[Master Avoghai]

I think it's because people want to be able to do pure Deathwing army Battle-forged and not as unbound. Probably because of tournaments and then there are people who don't want to play unbound games who they play against, I am guessing.

It's exactly that.

 

There are areas where unbound is not played and not only for tournaments but also for casual games.

Sure Games Workshop allows that but it's just for the purpose of letting kids bring their riptide + knight + squad of termi "army" being fielded...

 

The veterans players didn't wait for GW allowance to play unbound army "just for change" or for campaign.

 

But it was just for particular games. Not every games for their army.

 

The problem with DW now is that you HAVE to play unbound EVERY game.

 

Also,what bothers me a little is that I have no problem with the formation being played like that. The formations are supposed to be limited and aftervall, the rédemption force is primarly made to be played in a lion's blade.

But the Strike Force detachment is annoying : such detachment are supposed to be playable on their own, without any other.

Here we have a detachment that cannot be played without, at least, a RWAS... I find it a little bit strange in term of game design.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I play Battle-forged DW. Sure it's different from what it used to be, but I get same results and same fun. :)

[Harleqvin]

I think it's because people want to be able to do pure Deathwing army Battle-forged and not as unbound. Probably because of tournaments and then there are people who don't want to play unbound games who they play against, I am guessing.

It's exactly that.

There are areas where unbound is not played and not only for tournaments but also for casual games.

Sure Games Workshop allows that but it's just for the purpose of letting kids bring their riptide + knight + squad of termi "army" being fielded...

The veterans players didn't wait for GW allowance to play unbound army "just for change" or for campaign.

But it was just for particular games. Not every games for their army.

The problem with DW now is that you HAVE to play unbound EVERY game.

Also,what bothers me a little is that I have no problem with the formation being played like that. The formations are supposed to be limited and aftervall, the rédemption force is primarly made to be played in a lion's blade.

But the Strike Force detachment is annoying : such detachment are supposed to be playable on their own, without any other.

Here we have a detachment that cannot be played without, at least, a RWAS... I find it a little bit strange in term of game design.

I would have "liked" this but I am beyond my daily allotment of "liking" lol

={D>

I play Battle-forged DW. Sure it's different from what it used to be, but I get same results and same fun.

I would have liked this, too. But alas I am beyond my "liking" allotments for the day. LOL

[eurieus]

Well at least it's done concerning the ravenwing !! i really think deathwing is working as intented for the design team, paired with ravenwing. Pure deathwing is gone outside of unbound, we have to go with it

To me it's more a problem of playing mechanized DW units rather than p'aying pure DW

The question of the flyers in the RWSF has not been answerd, so i suppose it can only be taken if the whole force comes from reserve, and that's fine. But can you take two Strike forces ? I suppose not , it would be allying to yourself right ?

1- you can play whatever quantity of detachments you want. The only restriction is the amlied detachment that must be from a different factio .

2 I personnaly play the "deploy as normal"as like the BRB says for each unit.

The only way to play mechanized DW is with two scout squads as a taxe i guess

So it means i can take two RWSF, one deployed on the table and one in reserve with the dark talon/neph ? If so that's awesome Auto flyer on turn two !

But yeah, the " deploy as normal " could mean the flyer can be put in normal reserve.

[Master Avoghai]

I'm really 50/50 on whether you can take two strike forces. One thing that's struck me is that, for example, IG and SM may not be able to ally due to being of the Imperial faction but it's heavily encouraged. If "faction" means "Codex (& supplements thereof) It would also mean that you could only take one RWAS which as that's a detachment.

 

We're opening a whole tin of wriggly invertebrates if we get into the RWSF & Flyer debate here (my fault, I'm afraid!). The debate's covered in this thread.

 

Apologies for trying to reign this in whilst also expanding it!

So re-read the p120 of the rulebook.

 

It specificly says that you can play as many detachments as you wish.

 

You also misunderstood what I mean by ally detachment. I didn't mean "a detachment of a different army"

 

I meant the detachment with only one compulsory troop choice and only one choice of the other.

 

But again, re read the p120 and you'll get what I mean.

[Brother dean]

I think it's because people want to be able to do pure Deathwing army Battle-forged and not as unbound. Probably because of tournaments and then there are people who don't want to play unbound games who they play against, I am guessing.

And I want to take 6 Imperial Knights and Thunderhawks with 30 man squads of Deathwing in the same bound list.  What you WANT is not the same as what the rules will allow.  If you Want to deploy on the table with Landraiders and multiple Dreadnoughts the way you used to then you MUST take an Unbound list.

 

At this point that is obviously what the designers wanted and the rules somewhat work.?..  Just because it isnt what you WANT does not make it rise to the level of an errata...

 

Edit: and as a guy with 85 termies I feel your pain but why not run a RWAS and let each bike squadron project a 12" no scatter bubble... along with the other special formation rules...

 

Edit Edit:  and we could have used a clarification on the rules for the flyer in the RWSF but they must think it is clear at "or deploy normally".

[Master Avoghai]

@ Brother Dean : it's not only a problem of willling something that always have been forbidden.

 

Lots of us owns the models because it was allowed to play that way for v3 without needing the agreement of you opponent or the event organizer.

 

Moreover like I've said: such detachment are supposed to be usable by their own ... This one isn't.

 

So it's a mot different than asling for a porsche when all you need is a car... It's rather asking fo the car to have itswheels back...

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Cmon guys... A few years ago we were complaining that to play DW you had to take Belial... Gw always change the way you play the army no use to be hung up on what used to be... We have to adapt. The choice is out of our hands. We adapt and move. In a few years from now we will be complaining about something else, wanting the formation back. ;)

[Stormxlr]

Cmon guys... A few years ago we were complaining that to play DW you had to take Belial... Gw always change the way you play the army no use to be hung up on what used to be... We have to adapt. The choice is out of our hands. We adapt and move. In a few years from now we will be complaining about something else, wanting the formation back.

I never complained i really love that guy! Before I had a reason to use him, now he is just an overpriced useless HQ that cant do anything well. Just like Asmodai and Azrael.

Also Im still refusing to buy the new codex because i see it as bad product. Because it is.

Does it have some nice things in it? Yes, but the mistakes make it not worth the money.

[march10k]

I don't think he's completely useless...with TH/SS, he's probably the best challenge monkey we have access to...

 

/edit/not that I use him :-p

[Ipos]

Did we really need much more? I mean we ARE aware that the DW Terminator Squad is equipped with Terminator armor and other painfully obvious things..

 

I know we had a thread but most of the questions bordered on stupid.

In my opinion? Yes.

 

One of the unique aspects of DA are the three different wings. I wanted a way to play pure DW in a bound army. Or at least make it easy to get some into land raiders.

 

a DW army still wouldn't get great. But I still want the option to play it.

[Brother dean]

You still have that option...  its called Unbound.

I know you dont want to do it and some places dont allow it but it is a major facet of the new ruleset. (actually a facet of 6th edition..)  Just as well say you dont allow buildings at your tournaments because they didnt used to have them, only hills and woods...

[Isiah]

You still have that option... its called Unbound.

 

The issue is that, well, unbound is just yuck.

 

But you're missing the point. We've had a credible, legal and force org compliant standalone DW army option for several Codex editions now. It wasn't broken. Nor overpowered. So why did they effectively stop it from use from all but the gutter of army build scenarios?

 

If someone cared to at least explain the thinking behind that I for one would be most grateful.

 

Seriously Brother Dean, if the auto-lose aspect wasn't bad enough, then please GW, don't rub salt into the wounds by giving DW squads dedicated transports that can't be used within a DW formation environment.

 

Either the left hand didn't know what the right was doing with those gems, or, neither hand cared.

 

Frankly, it's plain witless.

 

Seriously, if they'd also created a non-deepstriking DW formation option then all would have been well <_<

[Bryan Blaire]

But then you likely would have seen other complaints. We all know that.

 

I would have really liked a foot-sloggin' DW formation (although it would have been nice if they'd have figured out how to add some durability to the Terminators).

[Isiah]

I would have really liked a foot-sloggin' DW formation.

Exactly my point.

[march10k]

I do miss my crusader rush...

[Harleqvin]

I'm really 50/50 on whether you can take two strike forces. One thing that's struck me is that, for example, IG and SM may not be able to ally due to being of the Imperial faction but it's heavily encouraged. If "faction" means "Codex (& supplements thereof) It would also mean that you could only take one RWAS which as that's a detachment.

 

We're opening  a whole tin of wriggly invertebrates if we get into the RWSF & Flyer debate here (my fault, I'm afraid!). The debate's covered in this thread.

 

Apologies for trying to reign this in whilst also expanding it!

Read page 126. Armies of the Imperium is not a faction, it's a consolidated grouping of Factions. It just makes it so they don't have a huge table for levels of alliance. All factions in Armies of the Imprium are Battle Brothers is all it means. So yes. You can have IG allied with SM.

[Harleqvin]

 

I think it's because people want to be able to do pure Deathwing army Battle-forged and not as unbound. Probably because of tournaments and then there are people who don't want to play unbound games who they play against, I am guessing.

And I want to take 6 Imperial Knights and Thunderhawks with 30 man squads of Deathwing in the same bound list.  What you WANT is not the same as what the rules will allow.  If you Want to deploy on the table with Landraiders and multiple Dreadnoughts the way you used to then you MUST take an Unbound list.

 

At this point that is obviously what the designers wanted and the rules somewhat work.?..  Just because it isnt what you WANT does not make it rise to the level of an errata...

 

Edit: and as a guy with 85 termies I feel your pain but why not run a RWAS and let each bike squadron project a 12" no scatter bubble... along with the other special formation rules...

 

Edit Edit:  and we could have used a clarification on the rules for the flyer in the RWSF but they must think it is clear at "or deploy normally".

 

It has to do with it being a normal way to play as it has been for several editions of the game. And it is shown to be done in the novels to reflect that ability. You know this, I know this. Why be so sarcastic about in your first two lines? All you're doing is being a jerk.

 

Also there is a fact that these types of formations mentioned are meant to be played by themselves and this one isn't.

[Brother dean]

Because I am tired of people whining that something cannot be done even though it is obvious that it CAN be done.

 

Legally.

 

Just the way it used to be. Just not in a force org chart.

 

The game has changed. It has been like this for two editions now. The only thing stopping you is pride and an inability to see that the designers want them to work this way. I don't know WHY the designers want it this way but the FAQ shows that whining isn't going to change it back so just accept it and get on with purging the unclean.

 

Work this angst out on the xenos. Lord knows there are enough of them.

[Griffsnog]

They did it for the painfully obvious reason that they want to sell models. Most everyone played death wing and they wanted to make all those players buy the codex the. Switch to bikes and basically have to buy a new army. I have t played a game yet because I don't have any painted bikes. I haven't even bought the new book yet let alone the 7th Ed rules for the same reason. I think I won't unless they fix this BS. Death wing has been around since Angels of Death. I now have forty terminators 30 of which are painted and another 10 that are not. I've switched over to painting and modeling and I don't even know if I'm going to buy the new book. I did this because when the last CSM book came out my entire army was useless. I had to restructure my entire list to get something playable and I'm not dropping sever hundred of dollars at once on hellturkeys etc. just to not be tabled every turn. My death hard have. It left their battle own case in years. It's sad really. I have t spent a dime on models/books since that release because I'm waiting for a product that is not an unpolished turd to go with my models. They didn't fix anything wrong with the 6th Ed book save our flyers (if you could call that a fix) and they took all the unique stuff we had and flushed it down the toilet. I don't give a rats :cuss about bikes and land speeders. I modeled a librarian on a bike because it was a fun conversion but it's not what I have interest in playing. I guess I'll just keep on with my mediocre painting and hope for the best. I know it sounds like I'm complaining but I e been playing 40K for as long over 20 years and I'm tired of my army constantly getting the short end of the very tiny stick. If they cared about their player base and keeping them they would have made the very few obvious fixes and left it at that. Sure people would still complain but you always have whiners. For the record I'm not whining. I'm pissed.

[Harleqvin]

Because I am tired of people whining that something cannot be done even though it is obvious that it CAN be done.

 

Legally.

 

Just the way it used to be. Just not in a force org chart.

 

The game has changed. It has been like this for two editions now. The only thing stopping you is pride and an inability to see that the designers want them to work this way. I don't know WHY the designers want it this way but the FAQ shows that whining isn't going to change it back so just accept it and get on with purging the unclean.

 

Work this angst out on the xenos. Lord knows there are enough of them.

Actually, no. We already stated about it being an issue of tourneys and some people refuse to play against unbound. We have been able to do all Deathwing legal army since the 2nd ed codex.

Also, these detachments are meant to be able to be played by themselves and this one is not.

But there is no need to be a dick to people about it in a civil discussion.

[aura_enchanted]

 

Because I am tired of people whining that something cannot be done even though it is obvious that it CAN be done.

 

Legally.

 

Just the way it used to be. Just not in a force org chart.

 

The game has changed. It has been like this for two editions now. The only thing stopping you is pride and an inability to see that the designers want them to work this way. I don't know WHY the designers want it this way but the FAQ shows that whining isn't going to change it back so just accept it and get on with purging the unclean.

 

Work this angst out on the xenos. Lord knows there are enough of them.

Actually, no. We already stated about it being an issue of tourneys and some people refuse to play against unbound. We have been able to do all Deathwing legal army since the 2nd ed codex.

Also, these detachments are meant to be able to be played by themselves and this one is not.

But there is no need to be a dick to people about it in a civil discussion.

 

yes but the deathwing almosty never go it alone, like almost never in fact the deathwing have probably deployed as a dedicated fighting force on only the rarest of occassions probbly a dozen times since the heresy.

 

one cannot justify it fluffily for the deathwing to be a dedictaed army. their meant as the second half of the hunter killer team that is the 1st and 2nd companies the ravenwing find, the deathwing kill this has been there way since time imemorial

[march10k]

Because I am tired of people whining that something cannot be done even though it is obvious that it CAN be done.

 

Legally.

 

Just the way it used to be. Just not in a force org chart.

 

The game has changed. It has been like this for two editions now. The only thing stopping you is pride and an inability to see that the designers want them to work this way. I don't know WHY the designers want it this way but the FAQ shows that whining isn't going to change it back so just accept it and get on with purging the unclean.

 

Work this angst out on the xenos. Lord knows there are enough of them.

not to mention traitors and witches!

 

I have enough bikes and speeders to run an RWAS  (with speeders to spare), so it doesn't cause me to switch to ravenwing, I simply combine an RWAS with a DWSF and I'm better off than in 4th/5th, when I was running a triumvirate of bikes, termies, and dreddies.  I still miss three crusaderloads of termies, not least for getting through six turns in 90 minutes, but I do actually enjoy a return to black/white...12" no-scatter bubbles with heavy flamers are so much fun, so is dropping five termies within charge range, but out of LOS, of an enemy.

[Harleqvin]

 

 

Because I am tired of people whining that something cannot be done even though it is obvious that it CAN be done.

 

Legally.

 

Just the way it used to be. Just not in a force org chart.

 

The game has changed. It has been like this for two editions now. The only thing stopping you is pride and an inability to see that the designers want them to work this way. I don't know WHY the designers want it this way but the FAQ shows that whining isn't going to change it back so just accept it and get on with purging the unclean.

 

Work this angst out on the xenos. Lord knows there are enough of them.

Actually, no. We already stated about it being an issue of tourneys and some people refuse to play against unbound. We have been able to do all Deathwing legal army since the 2nd ed codex.

Also, these detachments are meant to be able to be played by themselves and this one is not.

But there is no need to be a dick to people about it in a civil discussion.

 

yes but the deathwing almosty never go it alone, like almost never in fact the deathwing have probably deployed as a dedicated fighting force on only the rarest of occassions probbly a dozen times since the heresy.

 

one cannot justify it fluffily for the deathwing to be a dedictaed army. their meant as the second half of the hunter killer team that is the 1st and 2nd companies the ravenwing find, the deathwing kill this has been there way since time imemorial

 

It is actually Fluffy and it's been part of the rules for every edition there has been a codex for DA, till now. The Detachments are meant to be played by themselves and this appears to be the only one that you can't do that with.