How should I expand my Imperial Guard army?

[Merellin]

So, I have a guard army, And I'v played it a bit, and I quite enjoy it. I love the whole, Regular humans facing the horrors of 40k. But.. I'm not sure how to expand my army, Or realy how to play it.. What are good playstyles for guard? and what is missing from my collection?

 

I own

2 Vendetta
2 Leman Russ Battlecannon
1 Leman Russ Plasma
4 Chimera
1 Hellhound

3 Auto Cannon HWT
2 Missile Launcher HWT
1 Mortar HWT
3 Unbuilt HWT
1 Sentinel

81 Lasguns
1 Medic
1 Sniper
6 Melta
12 Flamers
2 Plasma
1 Demolition Charge
10 Voxcasters
16 Sergeants
4 Banners
2 Commanders
Yarrick
Creed
Commissar
Nork

[CommissarHughes]

10 las guns for every sergeant then the ogryn formation

[WarriorFish]

Really depends what you want with a solid collection like this already. Maybe some of the Russ variants you're missing, and Hellhound variants? Can't go wrong with more troopers as Hughes said

What sort of lists are you thinking about? Guard do well with a purpose in mind for each unit, coupled with ample support from other elements so good numbers is always a good thing in a list. Perhaps you might like to model up a tank commander? Better yet post up some pictures of your army

[Merellin]

Well, I'm not sure what kind of list I want to run.. I was thinking of a mixed list.. Maybe a platoon, Some veterans in chimeras, some tanks.. As for posting pics, My army is packed away in a box and a bag, And I dont have enough room in my appartment to put it all up.. But I got a photo of one of my guardsmen http://www.imagebam.com/image/46f3b0453828410 (Not sure if this works..)

[Ming]

Enginseers are apparently important for unlocking certain AM formations.  Two should do it....also - if you have older Russ's - consider one more, and then getting turrets to be interchangeable.  

[duz_]

Looks like you could do with some artillery

Especially a couple of wyvrens maybe a basilisk or deathstrike/manticore too

No guard commander is complete without it

[WarriorFish]

The link worked fine :) A hybrid list can work nicely, balance is always reliable even if it can seem less "exciting" sometimes. The key is to get the support right then the rest takes care of itself mostly. So I'd go with adding a little more armour to your collection and maybe a few more troopers if you're looking at higher point games. Have you considered any artillery? Wyverns at the least would go far as the stand out unit of out codex - at least until they get nerfed in the upcoming codex :P

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I really like footslogging platoons (give them tallarn desert raiders to make them a bit faster through cover) with mechanized carapace vets. Run your vendettas as Air Support, and take the standard russes to back up the platoon with some fire support. Don't squadron the russes so they can fire independently, and take a mortar squad and an autocannon squad in the platoon, to protect your mortars. Take autocannon teams in your command squad and one in each vet squad. 

 

Alternatively, you can put the missile teams in vet squads and autocannons in your infantry squads. Missile launchers are great in vet squads since they can really use their BS4 to good effect with the single shot krak missile. 

 

It all kind depends on what you want the army to do.

[Akrim]

You have a good core, you could expand in a couple different directions:

 

-Adding a Hellhound variant you could easily run the Emperors Blade mechanized formation (Veterans in Chimeras)

 

- You could go for an armoured company approach (again see Mont'Ka formations). Generally speaking original Russ MBTs aren't highly regarded, but these could be easily to Vanquishers if you wished. Pask in a Punisher with multi-melta sponsons/Lascannon hull is a frequent unit in AM. Other good ones are the Executioner and Exterminators. Each of course has their role.

 

- You could add a Valkyrie and run the aerial formation

 

-Infantry heavy is (I find) the strongest AM has to offer, esp in the sense that you can advance with it and put a mammoth amount of las gunners on the table. Conscripts make excellent assault troops when bolstered by a Ministorum Priest (I see you have a Yarrick, this is a great place for him). They can also be spaced out around your tanks to prevent deep striking melta.

 

For Platoon Infantry Squads is like to bunker down behind an Aegis, shoot and hold objectives.

 

-Artillery as mentioned is great too, see the Emperors Wrath formation.

[Merellin]

I had forgotten about the Imperial Guard detachment and formations from Mont'ka, Been looking over them but not quite sure what is good yet.. So you dont need core, But can only take 0-3 auxiliaries per core, So you kind of need core.. xD I'm trying to decide on how to do it, Maybe one of each of the two cores.. But that seems like it would get high in points.. Hmm.. I shall have to read more..

 

 

Lets see.. Counting a bit, One Company Command Squad (Battle Group Command) And one Emperor's Shield Infantry Company (Each platoon set to 30 men blobs, And 3 armoured sentinels in each platoon) and no upgrades other then the extra models, Comes to.. 1020 points, 115 infantry and 9 walkers.. I'd need some extra models for that.. xD

 

 

Oh oh! Also, I was curious, Is the Tempestus Scions any good? I realy like their models...

 

 

WELP! Looks like I missed something important.. The platoons have to have 5 infantry squads.. Now I must recalculate..

[duz_]

You don't have to run the battle group to use the individual models. You just don't get the benefits of the CBG that's all. General consensus is that the auxiliary formations are better solo than having to pay the tax for the CBG unless you want to run the tanks.

 

Scions are best run as their own detachment if you want to field them as a platoon. Otherwise as a single squad they are good deep striking melta/plasma suicide squads.

[Merellin]

I dont feel good about using formations from detachments without using the detachments.. I dont know why, I know they are formations so you can add them to a regular CAD but.. I feel cheep when I do.. xD

[duz_]

You'll probably feel a lot poorer after buying and painting 170 guardsmen ;-)

 

The CBG is near unplayable in less than 1800-2000pts unless you go barebones on everything

 

Plenty of other formations that exist and aren't part of a composite formation

 

If it makes you feel any better the formations in the book are listed first individually and the CBG is tucked in at the end like a side note and refers back to the previously mentioned formations

 

The formations are designed to run on their own. There's just an added bonus if you decide you do want to run a bucket load of tanks or guard

 

Based on your current list I think the artillery company (emperors wrath) would made a good addition and if you decide you still fell dirty for playing the formation outside of the optional CBG you can still easily include them in a regular CAD

[Merellin]

I wouldent need to buy 170 guardsmen, I already have a few, I'd only need to buy about 100 guardsmen.. xD But, Going CAD, I think i wanna run a platoon or two, 30 man blobs, Then some veterans in chimeras, and some artillery support.. Maybe a few leman russes.. What are the advantages and dissadvantages of each type of Leman Russ? As it is I mostly use my two battle cannon russes.. I do want to try some Scions too cus they look cool, And maybe some Ogryn as they are awesome (But expensive in points..)

[Ming]

I'd focus on the successes of different lists and tactics you can learn from battle reports by others (shameless plug).  

 

I decided to take on Astra Militarum (Cadians) as a challenge this year, and my games are improving as my tactics / practice / list changes bear fruit - I'm slowly gaining in wins over my earlier losses.  

 

At the moment I'm just using a well-rounded CAD themed as an Armored Infantry Company.  I have command assets, veteran squads in transports, scions/air support in reserve, tanks, and artillery support.  

 

Biggest struggles are against Eldar and Tau, but I'm working that into list revisions.  The next iterations will experiment with utilizing Mont'ka formations for added bonuses, but they too will require practice or a Caddy (golfers experienced assistant) to get right. To use the new formations in the experiments I'll proxy rather than buy...  

[Merellin]

I started working on a test list here http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317435-need-army-list-help-trying-to-get-to-1850-points/ If anyone has any sugestions I'd be happy to hear them ^_^

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

The formations in the Mont'Ka book are pretty strong on their own, except for maybe the Emperor's Shield platoon and company. The platoon is 56 models bare minimum and the company is 173 bare minimum. The Emperor's Shield company clocks in at 820-ish points bare bones. Like someone said earlier the CBG is almost unplayable below 1800 points. The Aerial company isn't bad but requires 3 flyers, so you'd need to add 2 valkyries to your inventory at least. Only the ones transporting units need to give up their jink save for no scattering, so you don't need to give that up on the vendetta, as the vendetta shouldn't be carrying troops anyway. However, if you're wanting to run Flyer heavy, I'd recommend playing Elysians as they just do it better. 

 

Scions have a few advantages over the old stormtroopers, but also suffer some disadvantages over them too. One one hand their rules are simpler, Deep strike and Move through cover always, very little bookkeeping. On the other hand, they lost their Close Combat weapon and Hotshot laspistol, which cost them an extra attack in close combat, where they will very likely end up, having to be well within charge range of most armies to rapid fire, they have very little to aid them in close combat. This is another area where taking elysians pays off 5th ed stormie rules. Now if you look at scions in a certain light, they're really just better grenadiers, they ignore dangerous terrain tests so grav chute insertion is great, and deep striking into ruins won't cause a mishap. They have hotshots, so they can kill anything with a 3+ or worse outright on a successful wound, and with the orders from their own codex, they can bring down monstrous creatures with ease by becoming snipers and wounding on 4's. They have some benefits, but they have some downsides too just be aware of them.

 

As for the russes, I actually like the battlecannon russ. It's versatile, and fairly points efficient. The demolisher is also good, because of the higher strength on the weapon, you need to get closer but that's ok, it's not much different than with a space marine vindicator. The Vanquisher is good anti tank, but with only a 50% chance of hitting the target it's a bit wasted on a regular russ, taken on a tank commander it's fantastic. I only have the numbers to go off of, since my forces do not include tanks as of yet (I plan to get a couple). 

 

Basically, you need to decide what your forces are lacking, or what you want to play more of. I personally play flyers and walkers a lot, that's what i like, but the valkyrie is just becoming boring and I'm wanting to spice things up by getting a couple vultures (Unfortunately it seems we're limited in how many we can employ in a single list, or which lists can employ them).

[Merellin]

Oh! I would like to add a super heavy tank to my guard list at some point. What one would you recomend? What is the strengths and weaknesses of each tank?

And thanks a lot for all the replies I realy apreciate all the help!

Edit: For super heavy tank, I'm thinking something other then the regular Baneblade or Hellhammer as a friend got those. Also, Please dont sugest magnetising.. I'm not good enough for that..

[WarriorFish]

Magnetising the Baneblade kit is one of the easiest because it's so big, you can hardly go wrong with it. If I had to choose, I'd say decide what you need it to do - chances are there's a Baneblade type that does it!

[Merellin]

Well, I'm considering having a baneblade variant to deal with enemy infantry, And maybe light vehicles. I can bring lascannons to deal with vehicles (Or, In apocalypse, Let my allies deal with enemy super heavies) But having something extra for dealing with enemy medium to heavy infantry and light vehicles, That would be nice. And with medium to heavy infantry I mean 3+ and 2+ saves.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Just a terminology thing, infantry with 3+ armor is usually referred to as MEQ (Marine EQuvalent) and 2+ armor is referred to as TEQ (Terminator EQuivalent). 

 

As for having a Superheavy, I love superheavies, and I want to add a baneblade to my collection as well, as my only superheavy is a Knight. The Knight is nice as it really takes the place of a LRBT squadron in my forces, and I'd like a second one ( another shooty one). But the Baneblade is really a nice model and so fluffy for a guard army.

 

As for using the baneblade to take out MEQs and TEQs, It does well at that, but I'd be more for using the hellhammer for that task, with the S10 AP1 ignores cover 7" blast. It needs to advance up the field more, as the main gun is only 36" range. But as WF suggested, magnetize the Baneblade kit, it's easy to do because it's so big, and that means it's good practice. As with anything in this hobby, [perfect] (my apologies, my dad drilled that into my skull growing up) practice makes perfect. The only way to get good at something is to practice it. 

[Merellin]

Hmm... I'v been thinking.. Can a Infantry heavy list work well? Like, Loads of guardsmen, Veterans, Scions, Ogryn, Bullgryn and Ratlings, With some vehicle support (Like Artillery). I'm currently looking for lists to see how people go about building such lists. I used to be primarily a xenos player (Tau since 5'th edition, They where my first. then some Necrons with Space Wolves added in) But lately, I'v been feeling like going primarily Imperium of Man. Focusing on my Guard (Guardsmen are one of the few models I actualy anjoy painting) and my Space Wolves.. And I'm trying to figure out how to play, So I'm looking at lists and watching battl reports!

[WarriorFish]

Sounds like an artillery company to me ;) Pure infantry is workable but suffers from some drawbacks for example you can't flood the board with too many units as you get logistical issues resulting in reduced efficiency. Which is why if I want lots of troopers on the board I usually go for an artillery list as they can feature plenty of boots but also lets you spend some points on some big guns. Aside from being a cool list anyway they work well together as your arty obliterates the threats and your troops protect them and advance on the enemy.

 

Maybe not the best of lists but can be difficult to deal with as a relentless wave of heavy ordnance and infantry whittles the enemy down... plus who doesn't love the biggest of cannons? Consider looking at some FW options for some extra artillery options, especially as they can be cheaper and effective for it with orders :)

[Merellin]

I dont want pure infantry, That would requier too many models.. But I was thinking maybe 3 platoons with 30 man blobs, Or maybe take the full 50 in each platoon for 3 30 man blobs and 3 20 man blobs.. Something like that.. Then artillery, And some tank support. Maybe a few Sentinels, And some Ogryn and Bullgryn, Maybe a unit of Ratling Snipers just cus they are fun.. No flyers though. I dont realy like flyers.. xD And my group generaly dont use many flyers. The Ultramarine player might bring one, And the Daemon player might bring a flying greater daemon, But thats generaly it..

[WarriorFish]

That's a fair few points worth! Realistically 100 infantry models is a lot - a lot of table space, points and plastic to shuffle around each turn - so you wouldn't want to go more than that unless you were going super infantry horde. I think that a couple of Platoons on the table will give you plenty as well as fill your mandatory Troop choices, give them a couple extra squads each and that should be enough then you can spend the rest of your points on toys and guns :)