few questions regarding Astra militarum rules

[angrom]

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm mainly playing inquisition (fun army to play by the way) but i would like to give more shooty flavor to it.

Obviously the astra militarum is the one making the more sense both in term of fire power and fluff to come along with the inquisition.

So i have few questions regarding astra militarum rules in combination with inquisition.

 

First i saw that astra militarum can combine different infantry unit in one big platoon which is considered as one unit .

Can i combine a command squad with a veteran squad?

If so if i take a medipac in the command squad is the effect gonna apply to the veteran as well?

Also if i add an inquisitor like Coteaz into the unit is he gonna benefit from the medipac as well?

If so do you think that the special rule from Coteaz "I was expecting you" (that allow interception basically) will apply for both the command squad and the veteran squad?

 

 

Finally if I add an independent character from inquisition into an astra militarum unit, if this unit go to the ground (to get a better cover save)

Is the voice order to get back to fight will apply to the inquisitor as well or is it gonna block the whole unit to the ground?

 

Thanks for the help

 

 

[Myrkul]

Can i combine a command squad with a veteran squad?

If so if i take a medipac in the command squad is the effect gonna apply to the veteran as well?

Also if i add an inquisitor like Coteaz into the unit is he gonna benefit from the medipac as well?

If so do you think that the special rule from Coteaz "I was expecting you" (that allow interception basically) will apply for both the command squad and the veteran squad?

 

No, the combined squad rule only applies to infantry squads from the infantry platoon. Thats the only unit that can combine up in that way. Platoon command, company command, vet squad, heavy and special teams all have to role solo.

 

So no the med pack will not carry over tonthe vet squad.

 

But if Coteaz joins a comand squad with a pack he would gain the benefit of FNP since he's now a part of that unit, as well as providing his benefit to that unit(but no other).

 

Finally if I add an independent character from inquisition into an astra militarum unit, if this unit go to the ground (to get a better cover save)

Is the voice order to get back to fight will apply to the inquisitor as well or is it gonna block the whole unit to the ground?

Yes. Any independent character that joins a AM unit is treated by and large as a part of that unit and tus effected by any order given to the unit.

[Lukash_]

 

Yes. Any independent character that joins a AM unit is treated by and large as a part of that unit and thus affected by any order given to the unit.

 

Which can lead to some rather unfriendly combos...like adding a Primaris Psyker to a unit of Space Wolf Long Fangs, rolling the Ignores Cover psychic power, and ordering the psyker with "Bring it Down" for ignores cover tank hunter lascannons.

 

Edit: I'm bad at theorycrafting.

[WarriorFish]

Orders can only be given to Guard infantry units, which means that wouldn't work further than the psychic power.

[march10k]

 

 

Yes. Any independent character that joins a AM unit is treated by and large as a part of that unit and thus affected by any order given to the unit.

 

Which can lead to some rather unfriendly combos...like adding a Primaris Psyker to a unit of Space Wolf Long Fangs, rolling the Ignores Cover psychic power, and ordering the psyker with "Bring it Down" for ignores cover tank hunter lascannons.

 

 

 

Orders can only be given to Guard infantry units, which means that wouldn't work further than the psychic power.

 

 

Yup.  If the psycher is staning alone and unafraid, he's a valid target for the order.  As soon as he joins the longfangs, he's no longer a guard unit, he's part of a space wolf unit.    No sale, I'm afraid!

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

However, if I'm not mistaken, you can add, say, a Space Wolf Rune Priest or Wolf Priest to a unit of guardsmen and get the higher leadership for passing orders as well as whatever buffs they offer. 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[angrom]

Ho i see that's a lot of possibility,

So how do you protect your command squad from being shot to death if you can't merge them with another squad (i mean without a chimera i want to keep it cheap)?

because a 5 men squad its pretty easy to loose it and give a free victory point.

 

Also with the Mont'ka formations i saw that it is possible to take just 1 command squad alone (to get the bonus of formations to issue 3 orders), can i then add just 2 squad of veteran from the codex (so no particular formation bonus for them) and still use the voice of command on them, or do i have still to take another HQ with the 2 veteran to fill a new detachment?

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Well, the CCS almost always wants to be in a chimera, so you can get it where it's needed to issue those senior officer only orders. Vets don't need order support as much, with the way they mostly get employed. As for a PCS? Well, it should be doing whatever the rest of the platoon is doing, so if the platoon is mechanized it should be in a chimera. If the platoon is foot slogging, the Platoon Command Squad should be foot slogging too. As for how to keep it protected? Put it behind the infantry squads or have it duck into ruins close enough to issue orders, but tucked out of sight. Besides, chances are your PCS is a target of opportunity not a target of priority. It's the Infantry squads that do the work, the PCS just makes them do it better. I'd want to take out that 20-50 man blob that can drown my deathstar in saves. I don't want to play "how many 2+'s can you roll?". 100 lasgun shots at 12" versus 10 hammernators, only takes one failed save, and you've got 10 saves against every one guy, I don't like those odds. Now if you've gone and given FRFSRF, you've now doubled the amount of shots you're throwing at my theoretical hammernators, which means yet more of a reason to focus on the guys that can actually put out that volume, not the guys hiding in cover.

 

I hope that made sense. I know that because we're looking at the codex and seeing what the units can do, it seems like a no-brainer to go for the command squads, 

but non guard players don't see it that way. Just keep the CS within order range but out of sight and the opponent will just see the unit shooting at him, not the unit making them better. It's sleight of hand, and like poker you play the opponent, not your cards. 

 

The other solution is to run Death Korps of Krieg assault brigade, and use the forlorn hope rule, you put an objective in your opponent's deployment zone worth 1 VP to him if you don't claim it, 2VP to you if you do. In return you get respawning infantry platoons, so just run those suckers forward pop the assault order, throw down some dakka, and then charge into combat, and probably die. But he's so worried about charging guardsmen that he doesn't see the units grabbing objectives.

 

Also, purge the alien is the only straight up kill points mission left in the game. The scouring only counts fast attack units as granting VP, and Big guns never tire only counts heavy support. Maelstrom missions don't use kill points, so there's nothing to worry about. Basically, you're guard, if you're not pulling models off the board by the armload, you're doing it wrong... And as long as you have killed more of his stuff than he has of yours, all is well. Vets in chimeras and leman russ tanks will do most of the work, while the honking huge infantry platoon just draws his attention and he'll kill 3-4 units, while your HWS sit in the back and hammer his stuff, and your tanks kill his stuff. Your LRBT's can kill a heck of a lot of stuff, while being hard to kill themselves. 

 

The Cadian battle group is, bare minimum, a company command squad or a tank commander (with wingman). So yes you can field just that without the core or auxiliaries. Then just use the auxiliaries in a formation detachment separate from the CBG. 

[Phubar]

Ccs are an awful Hq in terms of survivibilty, your Warlord makes look out rolls on 4+, suffer instant death by S6 wounds and at best has 4+5++. Without chimera is too squishy. You can have 3+ cover but there are a lot of ignore cover around and cc attacks foest bother about it.

[march10k]

Sadly, this is true...I would only really field a CCS as a second HQ, now that we can have tank commanders...My standard warlord is Pask.  I have occasionally augmented him with a CCS, primarily to give two veteran autocannon squads 2+ cover in ruins...it's not at all cost-effective, but it's annoying as hell to the opposition without being cheese (c'mon, they're still just overcosted T3 autocannons, and there's tons of cover-ignoring stuff out there!)

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Being as I use an Infantry heavy list, doing air assault, the CCS is pretty much my only option if I want to take advantage of orders. However A lord commissar might turn out to be a more cost efficient HQ choice, as well as being able to hide better.

 

If you're going tank heavy, a Tank Commander is probably the best choice. CCS's get expensive quick. Unfortunately the PCS can stay cheap  but kinda demands to do what the rest of the platoon is doing.

[Boomkapow]

Yup. Pask with a second leman russ kept closer to the enemy. Makes for a very survivable warlord.

[librisrouge]

Also with the Mont'ka formations i saw that it is possible to take just 1 command squad alone (to get the bonus of formations to issue 3 orders), can i then add just 2 squad of veteran from the codex (so no particular formation bonus for them) and still use the voice of command on them, or do i have still to take another HQ with the 2 veteran to fill a new detachment?

Two answers.

 

First, you do need a full CAD (or other valid detachment) in order to pick up those veteran squads. Otherwise, you're unbound.

 

Second, that CCS you picked up from Mont'ka has no bonus rules in its formation. Only the Cadian Battle Group has the bonuses to orders, and I'm pretty sure they only apply to orders given to other members of the Cadian Battle Group. I could be wrong, I left my copy at work, but I'm 80-90% sure. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[duz_]

You're right the bonuses are strictly for units in the cbg

Although I guess the extra order would still apply (don't have my book either to confirm)

But unfortunately the 24" order range and rerolls of 1 don't apply to those outside of the CBG

[HenricusTyranicus]

Yes, you do get a bonus order, but no other bonuses.