Pharos (Spoilders inside)

[shandwen]

Sometimes I think these authors manage to hide a poorly authored book by dropping so many tidbits of information. It is my view that this book was a series of peoples favorite characters all giving tidbits of info out while hiding poor plot progression and lacking in subtlety.

[Praetor of Calth]

Sometimes I think these authors manage to hide a poorly authored book by dropping so many tidbits of information. It is my view that this book was a series of peoples favorite characters all giving tidbits of info out while hiding poor plot progression and lacking in subtlety.

If that was the case "Vulkan Lives" would be widely loved.

[Kol Saresk]

Ooh, I forgot my favorite part: Avenging Beancounter.

[helterskelter]

@ kol

no he never said it outright, and I took his implication that the emperor was alive from the part where he said the emperors minions were going to kill him, and by use of his name neither confirmation or denial the Emperor is dead I may have possibly thought way way way too much about it. But that entire chapter made my novel either way

[Aeternus]

@ kol

no he never said it outright, and I took his implication that the emperor was alive from the part where he said the emperors minions were going to kill him, and by use of his name neither confirmation or denial the Emperor is dead I may have possibly thought way way way too much about it. But that entire chapter made my novel either way

Sangi mentioned the Emperor a couple of times, and each time Curze looked at him, paused, looked confused, but then continued with what he was doing. Sangi may have been able to work it out from that, but I doubt it. And I'm starting to feel sorry for the Sanguinary guard

Really good novel, well worth a read for fans of the Avenging Beancounter or Night Lords.

[Kol Saresk]

Well, in defense of Helter, I can see where he is coming from.

What he was pointing out was that while Sanguinius spoke of the Emperor as though he was already dead, Curze spoke of the Emperor as if he were still alive. So from our more knowledgable point of view, it can appear as though he is giving clues that the Emperor is alive. But yes, when it came to talking about the Emperor, they both talked over each other.

[Arkangilos]

So does
 

 

Sanguinius say why he lets Curze go without fighting him?

 

 

[Kol Saresk]

 

Well, they fight for a little bit but Sanguinius stops after he sees Curze's point about how both of them being precognitive makes it a rather level playing field. After that, Curze cuts off Azkaellon's arm, blows a hole in the wall and throws Azkaellon out of it and Sanguinius goes to save him and when he returns, Curze is gone again.

 

Although there is a rather interesting point in all of this that was brought up. In the background, Ultramar is presented as this shining utopia, no slums, no homeless, no starving, sometimes living is tough but everyone is living a decent life.

 

But Curze points out that there are slums and those slums are so ignored by Guilliman that even when Curze was leaving his work to be found, the Ultramarines and the Dark Angels still can't find him.

 

It's a rather interesting point of view.

 

[depthcharge12]

Ok I'm still reading, so I just skipped over everything everyone said above, but I find it hilarious that Guy Haley almost seems hypocritical in his NL characters (though the book is very good so far). For example, when he speaks though the NLs, he says that the UMs are arrogant and sure in their predictable way, and yet, the NL characters are arrogant in their plan and are predictable with their tactics.

 

It's like my mind is screaming the entire time, well duh, both legions are acting in their respective manner.

[Kol Saresk]

Ok I'm still reading, so I just skipped over everything everyone said above, but I find it hilarious that Guy Haley almost seems hypocritical in his NL characters (though the book is very good so far). For example, when he speaks though the NLs, he says that the UMs are arrogant and sure in their predictable way, and yet, the NL characters are arrogant in their plan and are predictable with their tactics.

 

It's like my mind is screaming the entire time, well duh, both legions are acting in their respective manner.

Well honestly, it'd be weird if the Night Lords weren't hypocrites.

[depthcharge12]

 

Ok I'm still reading, so I just skipped over everything everyone said above, but I find it hilarious that Guy Haley almost seems hypocritical in his NL characters (though the book is very good so far). For example, when he speaks though the NLs, he says that the UMs are arrogant and sure in their predictable way, and yet, the NL characters are arrogant in their plan and are predictable with their tactics.

 

It's like my mind is screaming the entire time, well duh, both legions are acting in their respective manner.

Well honestly, it'd be weird if the Night Lords weren't hypocrites.

Quite true.

 

And while I like ADB, I'm kinda glad we got a different non Sevatar character, because Talos was a "nice" NL, and Argel Tal was a "nice" WB. It's good to see some traitors that don't mind throwing people under the bus for their ambitions.

[Kol Saresk]

I'm not sure the colonists at Tsalgualsa would call Talos "nice" lol. But agreed, Guy Haley does bring a fresh perspective to the Legion, and a very welcome one at that.

[depthcharge12]

I'm not sure the colonists at Tsalgualsa would call Talos "nice" lol. But agreed, Guy Haley does bring a fresh perspective to the Legion, and a very welcome one at that.

Lmao, as nice as a skinning psychopath can get I mean. It does feel like ADB's characters are too similiar in manner if you know what I mean. Plus, I like the interactions between the two NL brothers - the annoying Nihilistic one, and his younger brother the headsman that puts up with him out of blood ties.

[Marshal Rohr]

So Guy Haley decided that Guilliman wouldn't look for Curze in the slums, knowing he comes from a world of slums?

[helterskelter]

So Guy Haley decided that Guilliman wouldn't look for Curze in the slums, knowing he comes from a world of slums?

He didn't say this, nor decide it. It's a case of showing in some way they are all as bad as each other. It's less black and white than he's bad, he's good, obviously things are engineered like any person in limelight to make themselves look great, but there's always something lurking in the dark

[Calas Typhon]

-Personal Taste and Opinions-

 

As much as I found Sevatar to be funny, I did not really like his addition for various reasons (the whole fighter surfing thing as a prime example). As much as people will dislike me saying that, since everyone seems to have a hard on for him.

 

That goes for ADB's Night Lords in the Heresy as well for that matter, Sevatar was a prime example of what I hate in the Heresy for the VIII Legion. Instead of a Legion of sadistic, violent murderers who betray their own, commit fratricide in a rather serious manner and altogether dark (although they are shown to be this in lesser extents), they came across to me as black comedic, not very serious and far too joyful in what I read. What I expected from the Night Lords was, as an example of what I am talking about, a "Siege of Castellax" esc marine, such as the Slave-Lord Algol or Captain Gamgin to a lesser extent. What I saw was an army of Jack Nicholson's Joker from Batman.

 

I am not saying Prince of Crows or the Long Night were bad stories, only that it seemed to be a quite bad portrayal and not what I personally wanted to see from them, or expected to see. It seemed to go from a more serious, albeit short view of them in the Dark King, to that. 

 

I might actually pick this book up now, as it seems to be a more serious portrayal of the Night Lords and more in line with what I expect to see from them. 

[Knight of the Raven]

Behind CLosed doors, Sang tells Guilliamn to drop the pretense, that the 500 worls are really his Empire and Sang is just a figurehead. Guilliman sort of grudgingly concedes this point.

I trusted you, Roboute!

[Kol Saresk]

So Guy Haley decided that Guilliman wouldn't look for Curze in the slums, knowing he comes from a world of slums?

 

“I have been there, among the outsiders, the unvalued. They speak of me in whispers. They have learned to fear the dark. But has our brother found me? Has the Lion thought to look there, or anywhere on Macragge? No. Idiocy. I practically shouted to them to come for me! If you would look at this world and see the hope of the future, go to the poor quarters. There you will see the despair of the present. And you know as well as I, hope for the future is a lie. Everything goes back to the beginning, and our beginning is so very dark.”

 

Excerpt From: Haley, Guy. “Pharos.” Black Library, 2015-12-02T10:59:09Z. iBooks.

This material may be protected by copyright.

The Lion was supposed to be the one looking for Curze, but because he went gallavanting off to who-knows-where, the job fell to Guilliman, who was too busy trying to run the 500 Worlds, deal with the logistics of constantly arriving Astartes from the other Legions as well as still prosecuting the Shadow Crusade, or what's left of it.

 

Something as insignificant as a few dead people he doesn't care about in a part of the city he's designated as the "immigrant's slum" would have escaped his notice. Now if Curze burned the whole section to the ground, then Guilliman would be stupid for not noticing.

 

[caladancid]

I just finished the book and it was incredible. While I do get tired of the constant attempts to "humanize" the Night Lords, I really liked Guy Haley's efforts with the brothers.

 

I disagree strongly with the notion that the Epilogue ruins or cheapens the eventual outcome. I thought it was amazing. Just like Haley says in his remarks, the deep history of the 40k universe is what keeps me coming back.

 

I liked the fact that we didn't see a ton of Guilliman and instead saw many of the other leaders of the UM.

 

The scenes with Curze were great. He thinks he knows everything, and is so sure of his own prowess. I like how he conveniently ignores the fact that the Lion would have killed him on his ship if not for his vox turning on (UE). Also, Sang sees that he is petulant and a little bit pathetic when not fighting. Great depth of writing. I hope Guy Haley does many more books for the HH.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

So Guy Haley decided that Guilliman wouldn't look for Curze in the slums, knowing he comes from a world of slums?

He didn't say this, nor decide it. It's a case of showing in some way they are all as bad as each other. It's less black and white than he's bad, he's good, obviously things are engineered like any person in limelight to make themselves look great, but there's always something lurking in the dark

And how is Guilliman as bad as Curze? That's :cuss . You're talking about a guy who ate other people as a child.

[helterskelter]

 

 

So Guy Haley decided that Guilliman wouldn't look for Curze in the slums, knowing he comes from a world of slums?

He didn't say this, nor decide it. It's a case of showing in some way they are all as bad as each other. It's less black and white than he's bad, he's good, obviously things are engineered like any person in limelight to make themselves look great, but there's always something lurking in the dark

And how is Guilliman as bad as Curze? That's :cuss . You're talking about a guy who ate other people as a child.

An analogy if I may: take a lawn in autumn as the example, it's covered in leaves, now if you don't rake up the leaves the lawn will die, starved of what little sun it could get, if you just tidied those leaves there would be no problem. Now I could just spray the lawn with weedkiller. Dead lawn. Both things have the same result.

If you think all the "good" primarchs are shiny flawless people that's your choice. But each of them are flawed. Curze could have chosen to be capable of great good, but you know, bit tapped. Of course the bad points are never exactly like for like, but they are there whether you wish them to be or not

[Kol Saresk]

And anyone who creates an immigrants' quarter isn't exactly the most upstanding individual.

[Remus Ventanus.]

Anyone mind posting the dramatis personae?

[Kol Saresk]

“~ DRAMATIS PERSONAE ~

 

The IX Legion ‘Blood Angels’

 

Sanguinius, The reluctant emperor, ruler of Imperium Secundus, primarch of the IX Legion

Azkaellon, Commander, Sanguinary Guard

The XIII Legion ‘Ultramarines’

 

Roboute Guilliman, Master of Ultramar, the Avenging Son, primarch of the XIII Legion

Valentus Dolor, Tetrarch of Ultramar (Occluda), Primarch’s Champion

Titus Prayto, Master of the Presiding Centuria, Librarius

Sergio, Epistolary

 

Adallus, Captain, 199th ‘Aegida’ Company

Hespatian, Primus Medicae

Taricus, Apothecary

Genus, Vexillary

Odillio, Sergeant

Achamenides, Sergeant

Solus, Sergeant

 

Arkus, Squad sergeant, 55th Scout Cohort, ‘Aegida’ Company

Oberdeii, Scout

Tebecai, Scout

Tolomachus, Scout

Solon, Scout

Florian, Scout

Mallius, Scout

Krissaeos, Scout

 

Lethicus, Sergeant, and legionary commander of the Probity

Caias, Battle-brother

Tiberius, Battle-brother

 

Hellas, Battle-brother

Gellius, Shipmaster, Probity

Juliana Vratus, Vox-officer

 

Lucretius Corvo, Honoured captain, 90th ‘Nova’ Company

Hephtus, Apothecary

Damius, Vexillary

Correlus, Techmarine

Crassus, Sergeant

Bellephon, Battle-brother

Gollodon, Battle-brother

Cerean, Battle-brother

Valentian, Shipmaster, Glorious Nova

Matheris, Helmsman

The First Legion, ‘Dark Angels’

 

Alcuis, Captain, legionary commander of the Watcher

The VIII Legion, ‘Night Lords’

 

Krukesh, ‘The Pale’, new lord of the Kyroptera

 

Gendor Skraivok, ‘The Painted Count’, claw master, 45th Company

Berenon, Battle-brother, formerly of the Librarius

Gallivar

Kellendvar, Headsman

Kellenkir

Karrig Vorsh

Bordaan

Forvian, Claw leader

 

Ancient Carakon, Venerable Contemptor Dreadnought

 

Benthen Gesh, Claw master, Seventh Company

Wardens of the Pharos

 

Barabas Dantioch, Disgraced warsmith of the Iron Warriors

Alexis Polux, Captain, 405th Company, Imperial Fists

 

Carantine, Magos biologis, Mechanicum

Beta-Phi 97, Datasmith

Imperial Personae

 

Hulio Vitellius, Lieutenant, Sothan First Auxilia (irregular)

 

Mericus Giraldus, Sergeant, Sothan First Auxilia (irregular)

‘Tiny’ Jonno

Hasquin

Martinus

Chelvan Quintus

Dorican

Morio

Hanspire

Pontian

Aelius

 

Govenisk, Sergeant, Sothan First Auxilia (irregular)

 

Kolom Bolarion, Sergeant, Sothan First Auxilia (irregular)

Demethon

Klavius

 

Other forgotten heroes and lost souls, as the vagaries of the Pharos permit”

 

Excerpt From: Haley, Guy. “Pharos.” Black Library, 2015-12-02T10:59:09Z. iBooks.

This material may be protected by copyright.

[Marshal Rohr]

And anyone who creates an immigrants' quarter isn't exactly the most upstanding individual.

Upstanding? Maybe not. But that's the only way to control refugee intake, considering the Heresy is only seven years long, Macragge would need a quarantine zone to keep out infectious diseases and invasive flora/fauna. That's not even considering the possibility of Traitor sleeper cells or criminals.