Pharos (Spoilders inside)

[Kol Saresk]

........ Did I read the wrong Pharos, because I do not recall the Angel letting go. Unless you're talking about the whole "not killing Curze when he had the chance", because the Lion had an even better chance and he let a few Night Lords walk off with him. So is it okay if I start saying the Lion let him go because he was cocky?

[Emperor's Furor]

I'm just ready for another Blood Angel book that explains when and how the Blood Angels get to Terra before Horus and his party, and how they get there before the Ultramarines.

One that hopefully doesn't make Sanguinius look like a moping sad kid (not Pharos, but some of the other stories) that lets the ones that betrayed him go (Pharos).

 

I mean, to follow the example given earlier how how he works on customer service, you'd think he'd be ready to bring wrath down upon the people making his life difficult.

The Lion will probably give him the use of his Xenos transporter thing.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

I'm just ready for another Blood Angel book that explains when and how the Blood Angels get to Terra before Horus and his party, and how they get there before the Ultramarines.

One that hopefully doesn't make Sanguinius look like a moping sad kid (not Pharos, but some of the other stories) that lets the ones that betrayed him go (Pharos).

 

I mean, to follow the example given earlier how how he works on customer service, you'd think he'd be ready to bring wrath down upon the people making his life difficult.

The Lion will probably give him the use of his Xenos transporter thing.

Oh yes, it'll be interesting when everyone else finds out about the daemon warp engine!

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

I'm just ready for another Blood Angel book that explains when and how the Blood Angels get to Terra before Horus and his party, and how they get there before the Ultramarines.

One that hopefully doesn't make Sanguinius look like a moping sad kid (not Pharos, but some of the other stories) that lets the ones that betrayed him go (Pharos).

 

I mean, to follow the example given earlier how how he works on customer service, you'd think he'd be ready to bring wrath down upon the people making his life difficult.

Yeah I am also very interested to see how the Blood Angels get to Terra in time for the defense. Doesn't seem like it will be a happy parting between the three Primarchs.

 

I definitely disagree with the Astronomicon being a better reason than the Pharos for the eventual invasion. Why does that make any more sense? If the Tyranids are way older than we know, wouldn't it make sense they are attuned to look for tech way older than anything humans have made?

 

On the subject of Guy Haley's writing, I will just add one more comment at the risk of coming off fanboyish. The description of what a normal soldier thinks of the Legions in light of the ongoing HH is some of the best writing so far in the series. I enjoy reading about SMs and more SMs (hey, it is the HH so I'm in the right spot) but the storyline with Mericus was great with its demonstration of what the effect on humans must have been.

Because it's a :cuss excuse to fit the Tyranids into the Heresy, maybe? The Heresy should stay apart from 40K for two huge reasons. 1) Civil Wars are dramatic enough the inclusion of other factions cheapens the brother versus brother, humanity torn asunder theme. 2) Not everything that happens in the setting needs to be connected. You make the setting smaller by including the Tyranids in a shout out.

[Lord Blackwood]

I think yer making a mountain out of a molehill when it comes to the Pharos being the thing that pinged the Nids. 

30k is linked to 40k as in the things that happen in 30k  help absolutely and undeniably to shape the 40k universe , this is a small thing yes , something that could have not been included but I fail to see how it is a terrible thing. 30k as a setting is the predecessor to 40k it is in no way diminished by being connected to the other setting. 

 

[Marshal Rohr]

I think yer making a mountain out of a molehill when it comes to the Pharos being the thing that pinged the Nids.

 

30k is linked to 40k as in the things that happen in 30k help absolutely and undeniably to shape the 40k universe , this is a small thing yes , something that could have not been included but I fail to see how it is a terrible thing. 30k as a setting is the predecessor to 40k it is in no way diminished by being connected to the other setting.

 

 

30k is the precursor to 40k in the way the Mesopotamians were the precursor to modern Western culture. As in, humanity has changed so much in 10 thousand years it isn't even connected in the slightest. Look at TBA series, those Imperial Fists are nothing like the Imperial Fists of 40K. Connecting the two is silly, silly, silly. It's one thing to have timeless relics and ships from the Crusade era. It's another to have major characters (Eldrad), races (Necrons on Mars now Tyranids), and events (the warp storm that destroyed Caliban/Pabdorax) all tied to the Heresy. It's like saying some war between Neolitic civilizations laid the foundation for World War 2.

[helterskelter]

Gives nids a reason to point towards macragge and not just bypass everything and go straight to terra. Still takes 8000 odd years to get there so really it's done absolutely nothing other than wake them up.

[Marshal Rohr]

Gives nids a reason to point towards macragge and not just bypass everything and go straight to terra. Still takes 8000 odd years to get there so really it's done absolutely nothing other than wake them up.

Except originally the nids where always moving towards our galaxy from before our present time. Let's say the nids came from Andromeda. That's something like 2.5 million light years away. The nids, originally, didn't have FTL capability. They manipulated gravity to travel at near light speed. Hence the nids were a huge threat, but slow moving, which was how the Imperium kept them contained, by scorching the earth in their path to deny them resources. Now it seems like the Nids were just hanging out in the space between galaxy rally close to the Milky Way and showed up 10 thousand years later. Completely destroys that extra galactic monster theme. They would've had to originate in our galaxy.

[Sete]

 

I think yer making a mountain out of a molehill when it comes to the Pharos being the thing that pinged the Nids.

 

30k is linked to 40k as in the things that happen in 30k help absolutely and undeniably to shape the 40k universe , this is a small thing yes , something that could have not been included but I fail to see how it is a terrible thing. 30k as a setting is the predecessor to 40k it is in no way diminished by being connected to the other setting.

 

 

30k is the precursor to 40k in the way the Mesopotamians were the precursor to modern Western culture. As in, humanity has changed so much in 10 thousand years it isn't even connected in the slightest. Look at TBA series, those Imperial Fists are nothing like the Imperial Fists of 40K. Connecting the two is silly, silly, silly. It's one thing to have timeless relics and ships from the Crusade era. It's another to have major characters (Eldrad), races (Necrons on Mars now Tyranids), and events (the warp storm that destroyed Caliban/Pabdorax) all tied to the Heresy. It's like saying some war between Neolitic civilizations laid the foundation for World War 2.

Butterfly effect.

[Kol Saresk]

 

Gives nids a reason to point towards macragge and not just bypass everything and go straight to terra. Still takes 8000 odd years to get there so really it's done absolutely nothing other than wake them up.

Except originally the nids where always moving towards our galaxy from before our present time. Let's say the nids came from Andromeda. That's something like 2.5 million light years away. The nids, originally, didn't have FTL capability. They manipulated gravity to travel at near light speed. Hence the nids were a huge threat, but slow moving, which was how the Imperium kept them contained, by scorching the earth in their path to deny them resources. Now it seems like the Nids were just hanging out in the space between galaxy rally close to the Milky Way and showed up 10 thousand years later. Completely destroys that extra galactic monster theme. They would've had to originate in our galaxy.

Actually, they compress gravity to create a vacuum whoch then sucks them forward across great distances, which also theoretically is one of the few ways of achieving FTL travel, the Schwarzchild Traversable Wormhole I believe, where gravity compacts mass until it forms a small "corridor" for one way travel. The fact they are capable of traversing from the galactic edge to Macragge in less than one year, stopping at every planet along the way, would be further evidence in supporting the theory they can achieve FTL travel, just not through "hyperspace".

 

And even if they didn't reach FTL speeds, the background has been blatantly saying since the 4th Edition Tyranids Codex that the Tyranids have been sending small scout fleets into our galaxy since before 30K, giving rise to creatures such as the Catachan Devils and Fenrisian Krakens. So for that one millisecond the fleet could see the Pharos, it would have just confirmed what the scout fleets had failed to do: there is life in the Milky Way.

 

So that right there says they'd have to be in the void already. No offense, but your belief that they have to be moving for several million years doesn't exactly work with what we're given. Also, the Astronomican hasn't been active for 1% of that time.

[Marshal Rohr]

It doesn't matter what we are given when what we are given sucks. I can give you a bowl of dog :cuss and you don't have to eat it ;)

 

To come from another galaxy would take millions of years. That's just astrophysics. For the :cuss studio fluff of the scout fleets to be realistic it would have to mean the Tyranids have been here the whole time waiting at the edge of the galaxy.

[Kol Saresk]

Actually Canis Major is only 25,000 Light-years away, so....... yeah.

 

Bad is a matter of opinion and the reality is, I'm not Niel deGrasse Tyson so I couldn't care less if theoretical physics proved or disproved my science fiction.

[Marshal Rohr]

Canis Major isn't a galaxy. It's a result of our galaxy colliding with another at some point.

 

And you should care if theoretical physics don't influence your fiction. Not caring is how 40K went from being loved 7 years ago to the pile of :cuss it is today. They kept bringing in authors who didn't care until the whole thing fell apart. I understand it's fiction, but it's impossible to enjoy a setting where you go from ADBs description of zero G combat to Pandorax and Pythos.

[Lord Blackwood]

You seem overly concerned with things that are fairly minor in the grand scheme of things and only diminish the setting in yer own narrow view . 

Pharos itself wasant the best book ive read ( in my opinion of course )  nor was it the best  Imperium Secundus book but of the flaws I could find with the story the little bit to the nids seems like a tremendously nitpicky thing to latch onto. 

Then again folks who love 30  and or 40k  will ALWAYS find something to cry profusely about no matter what the authors do. 

[Marshal Rohr]

You seem overly concerned with things that are fairly minor in the grand scheme of things and only diminish the setting in yer own narrow view .

 

Pharos itself wasant the best book ive read ( in my opinion of course ) nor was it the best Imperium Secundus book but of the flaws I could find with the story the little bit to the nids seems like a tremendously nitpicky thing to latch onto.

 

Then again folks who love 30 and or 40k will ALWAYS find something to cry profusely about no matter what the authors do.

If you enjoyed it that's fine. If you fail to see why shoehorning in 40K references shrinks the setting there is nothing I can do for you.

[Arkangilos]

........ Did I read the wrong Pharos, because I do not recall the Angel letting go. Unless you're talking about the whole "not killing Curze when he had the chance", because the Lion had an even better chance and he let a few Night Lords walk off with him. So is it okay if I start saying the Lion let him go because he was cocky?

Yeah, I meant letting Curze go.

My problem (which I'm torn on, I really am) is how he hesitated. If he would have at least cut his arm off or something as a result of second thoughts, so he punished him but didn't kill him, fine. But instead he decided not to do anything. He just let someone who at this point was involved in what he thought was his dead fathers death walk off. I mean, he thought the Emperor was dead, and this guy was on the team of the one who killed him, and he let him live?!

 

Sanguinius has always been described as someone that would bring divine retribution to anyone that threatened his "family" and especially to those that rejected the emperor.

 

Had he thought the Emperor was still alive, I wouldn't have any issue with it at all.

[Kol Saresk]

See, personally I see it as part of his "I just came out of a really dark place, and I want to believe there is light at the end of the tunnel" phase, that's why it works for me. I agree it isn't smart, but it makes "sense" within the boundaries of the scene because before this, we see him monologouing about Signus and how he wants to forget about his darker nature and in that moment, he can't see any way of killing Curze without giving in to the darkness, even though he says it was just out of pity.

 

But that's just me and no one is bound to have to share my views.

[helterskelter]

He didn't let Curze go, his choice was get Curze or save Azkaellon.

Also assuming they're all up on the shared visions, sanguinius can probably take Curzes word for it he knows when he is going to die.

Marshall Rohr, the whole heresy setting Is 40k history. Would you rather the only known characters/tidbits be the primarchs/ chaos special characters in an earlier form + sevatar and sigismund? Even if you take the real world you can't walk about without some historical influence being there, even if it's in a museum. In the BL setting references to the future 40k will be there whether you so wish it or not. It has to come from somewhere, so being given opportunity and authority by GW to do so then there is even less that can be done about it.

[goosey_j]

So, just finished reading it.

 

On the whole, I liked it. A really solid effort for Mr. Haley for his first HH novel. Considering the abominations that have been published by Thorpe and Kyme, I was pleasantly surprised.

 

While it did suffer from a bit of Mary Sueism and few 'eh?' moments, I felt the strength of the writing and staying true to the established characterisation was good, and in some cases (Sanguinius) improved upon.

 

Regarding Sanguinius and Curze's part, which seems to have raised the ire of a few people here, I thought it was well done. What I especially liked about it was the suggested futility of their duel. They both knew how they were to die, and I took from it that they both knew that, to that end, the fight was pointless.

 

I also don't think the Imperium Secondus plot line has been pointless. It's covered a lot of the ground in explaining just what the hell three loyal legions did for SEVEN YEARS while Horus rampaged across the galaxy. The fact that they think the Emperor is dead, and the fact that Horus will soon be finding that information out himself, is a particularly good justification of that time. I look forward to seeing how each of the three legions will eventually leave it to begin the journey to Terra, but I feel the foundations for that were laid down in Pharos, especially in regards to the fissures developing between the three loyal brothers.

 

Overall, I'd say the Heresy is finally back on track, after a year of nothing except DEATHBLAZE or DOOMSTORM or whatever the :cuss that piece of :cuss was called.

 

Thank god for that eh?

[Vaz]

Saw, Bought, and Read the book within a few hours.

 

Very happy with the write up.

 

As a Night Lord player, advocate, I did not like seeing my boy's getting mowed down and spent so quickly. I understand it plays into the legion somewhat, but would have liked less 5:1++ odd's on an Ultra killing a Night Lord. Liked the two friend's, plot line should have kept going. Enjoyed the way things played out for the head NL guy.

 

I found the start a tad rough, but once thing's got going I was happy. 

 

The Konard / Sang scene was rather great. Agree with some other people who reviewed that legionary's got more show time. All and all I would recommend this book for the price it came at. I think this author could continue to make great contributions to the HH series and would continue to buy books by him.

[Arkangilos]

See, personally I see it as part of his "I just came out of a really dark place, and I want to believe there is light at the end of the tunnel" phase, that's why it works for me. I agree it isn't smart, but it makes "sense" within the boundaries of the scene because before this, we see him monologouing about Signus and how he wants to forget about his darker nature and in that moment, he can't see any way of killing Curze without giving in to the darkness, even though he says it was just out of pity.

 

But that's just me and no one is bound to have to share my views.

You see, that's why I'm torn. It makes sense on one side, but it doesn't make sense on the other. 

 

I mean, I don't hate it, I just wish he would have saved the galaxy a lot of trouble. Lol.

[Kol Saresk]

Yeah, but then a whole lot of previous, actually written in first hand accounts would go down the drain, which is vastly different from all of the various "historical" accounts that are based mostly on hearsay.

[Calas Typhon]

Am I the only one that thinks that this portrayal of any Primarch was probably the most incompetent when it came to Sanguinius?

 

 

You are at war with half the Legions, you have the prime opportunity to take out one of the figureheads to cause untold damage, yet you let him escape to save one of your underlings. It makes him sound kind and caring, but really stupid and lacking proper judgement, regardless of who it was he was saving. It just makes no sense to me at all from where I am standing. This is a Primarch who was at the forefront of the Grand Crusade as a shock detachment, a Legion who showed outstanding vengence and lack of mercy, when it came to war Primarchs were without equal especially Sanguinius, that does not strike me as what Sanguinius was in the events of the book.

It makes ok writing, but one of the stupidest mistakes a Primarch could have done. Its almost like the Black Library, and their writers, are trying too hard to make the Primarchs more human, which really makes them pointless when it comes down to events like this.

 

[Arkangilos]

Am I the only one that thinks that this portrayal of any Primarch was probably the most incompetent when it came to Sanguinius?

 

 

You are at war with half the Legions, you have the prime opportunity to take out one of the figureheads to cause untold damage, yet you let him escape to save one of your underlings. It makes him sound kind and caring, but really stupid and lacking proper judgement, regardless of who it was he was saving. It just makes no sense to me at all from where I am standing. This is a Primarch who was at the forefront of the Grand Crusade as a shock detachment, a Legion who showed outstanding vengence and lack of mercy, when it came to war Primarchs were without equal especially Sanguinius, that does not strike me as what Sanguinius was in the events of the book.

 

It makes ok writing, but one of the stupidest mistakes a Primarch could have done. Its almost like the Black Library, and their writers, are trying too hard to make the Primarchs more human, which really makes them pointless when it comes down to events like this.

 

 

 

This is the other half to my confliction!

[b1soul]

I care less about how the Nids come to be in the Milky Way...

 

What I care about is a good story

 

Imperium Secundus falls flat on its face as a story arc. It's poorly fleshed out.

 

Instead of Deathfire, we should've gotten an Imperium Secundus book to serve as a bridge between UE and Pharos. A nice solid trilogy with a middle book to firmly establish Imperium Secundus as its separate entity

 

Imperium Secundus has been poorly handled. I can't agree more with this poster...

 

In my eyes, if wasn't for all the superspy stuff we've been forced to endure throughout the series, the Alpha Legion would have been the perfect second big villian to introduce into Imperium Secundus. I.S is effectively founded upon misinformation, or rather a lack of, this is something the Alpha Legion excels at. I think it would have been incredible to see the AL launch a massive misinformation campaign, killing anyone, traitor or loyalist alike, that might threaten the one thing that keeps I.S alive. The idea that the Emperor is dead. That's something that actually fits with the original idea with the Alpha Legion, rather than the whole superspy stuff we have now.