Pre heresy chaplains.

[Ironwithout]

So some of you may know I'm working on a Scars list at the moment and compulsory HQ is a real pain in the backside as I end up just coming back to the Praetor on a Jetbike the whole time. Just for reference I have no close combat units in my army so a chaplain on jetbike is 65 points cheaper and kills tactical marines just as well which is all it ends up doing anyway.

 

Enough of my rant and here my questions.

 

Did all legions utalise them?

 

Does anyone have any info on White Scars Chaplains in Particular?

 

Did they wear black?

 

Does anyone have any artwork for them as I am going to have to convert one?

 

And power axe or sword?

 

Cheers

[shandwen]

Chaplains seem to have differing appearance. Sometimes they are said to wear black and follow the 40k way, but sometimes they follow the dress of their legions normal centurions. I have not read anywhere that any legions did not use them (even though 1k sons probably didn't), but some legions did have a tendency to use them (word bearers mainly). They are not even required to take a power maul so make of them what you want.

[Calas Typhon]

A lot of the legions brought in Chaplains from the Word Bearers, such as the Iron Warriors and Raven Guard.

 

There is a problem with the White Scars though, as far as I am aware, the White Scars did not follow the Edict of the Emperor to disband the Librarians and move them into the rank and file. Therefore there would be no need for Wardens or Chaplains to be formed, even if they played a heavier role than just a suppression to the Psykers in other Legions. I am not saying there would not be any for definite, only that they would not really have a proper role in this specific Legion.

 

As for the colours of the war gear, the Chaplains of the Word Bearers wore black due to the history of that specific part of the Legion. I believe there is a reference to the High Chaplain of the Emperors children wearing black, as well as the Warden of the Blood Angels in Fear to tread (sorry I don't have names on me at the moment)

[Ironwithout]

Cheers for the replies so far. I know the chaplains also managed the morale of the troops. It's just the same situation as everything at the moment because we don't have much information on the Scars. I like the idea of doing him in black as the white along with it would look pretty smart

[Apostle of the 30th Host]

As the Chaplains of 30k were created mainly to enforce the Edict of Nikea (no Librarians), the White Scars may not have had many:

- They were for Librarians

- I once read that they pretty much ignored the Edict so may have not even bothered introducing Chaplains.

(However they could have had them, but more to ensure the Librarians were kept secret and remained in control).

 

Colour tends to vary between novels so really up to you.

I asked this myself about the Word Bearers and came to the following conclusion:

WB's, always had Chaplains, wore black until they changed their colour to red when the Chaplains did so too to distance themselves from the Black of the Emperor - the colour was originally to denote them as heralds of the emperor I once read.

Other Legions, Chaplains after Nikea, increasingly became Black to represent them serving the Emperor's will.

 

So first off, it depends when your army is set and the choice of colour is up to you.

So basically, it's down to you if you include them for White Scars; could be argued either way but that ambiguity gives you freedom.

[Quixus]

As the Chaplains of 30k were created mainly to enforce the Edict of Nikea (no Librarians), the White Scars may not have had many:

That is news to me. I thought that Chaplains existed way before Nikaea. Where did you find that tidbit?

[Father Mehman]

They existed before Nikaea in various Legions due to the insidious nature of the Word Bearers. They were originally used by the proto-Word Bearers to proclaim the Imperial Truth to rediscovered pockets of humanity. Then Lorgar got involved, found the Chaos Gods, and sent Chaplains out to other Legions to slowly convert them to Chaos worship by utilizing both warrior lodges and secreting the Leticio Divinatus to Legion serfs.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Chaplains were around in the Unification to bring the word of the Emperor to the masses.

[Calas Typhon]

 

As the Chaplains of 30k were created mainly to enforce the Edict of Nikea (no Librarians), the White Scars may not have had many:

That is news to me. I thought that Chaplains existed way before Nikaea. Where did you find that tidbit?

 

 

It is referenced in Fear to Tread in the opening conflicts before they enter Signis, as well as in The First Heretic off the top of my head, although I don't have either book at hand as they are round a friends. So if you have either, or someone would be willing to look, they are your best bets.

[Calas Typhon]

Chaplains were around in the Unification to bring the word of the Emperor to the masses.

 

But that was just the Imperial Heralds (Word Bearers) role was it not?

 

As in, their role to take the Imperial Truth to those who did not follow it and if not, they burned them down. There were chaplains in the Word Bearers yes, but not in the other Legions. After the Edict was in place, the Emperor after seeing the Word Bearers, was then inspired to form the Chaplains, which he and Malcador told all the Primarchs to form.

[Sandlemad]

 

Chaplains were around in the Unification to bring the word of the Emperor to the masses.

 

But that was just the Imperial Heralds (Word Bearers) role was it not?

 

As in, their role to take the Imperial Truth to those who did not follow it and if not, they burned them down. There were chaplains in the Word Bearers yes, but not in the other Legions. After the Edict was in place, the Emperor after seeing the Word Bearers, was then inspired to form the Chaplains, which he and Malcador told all the Primarchs to form.

 

 

It is but you had various 'proto-chaplain' offices in other legions. You had the Ignix priesthood in the Salamanders, the BA Wardens, the Iron Fathers of the Iron Hands and (probably) the wolf priests of the SW. They fit the model of chaplain to varying degrees (the Ignix also seem to have included veteran troops and unit leaders, and the Iron Fathers included regular officers too.)

The WB chaplains were the originals and the ones the wider institution of the chaplaincy were modelled on, though they seem to have worn black, grey and traitor's crimson at various times. 

 

Black seems to have been standard post-Nikaea and there's a case to be made that it's a sign (in this case) of them directly serving the Emperor. The crozius comes from the WB's chaplains's eagle-headed mace/sceptre, showing their imperial authority back in Unification period, but I think the BA Wardens are mentioned as bearing staffs. Skull helms appeared but not universally, even within the WB.

 

To be honest I kind of got the impression that Stormseers fulfilled a chaplain-esque role in the WS as well as being librarians. The khans seem to consult them, they offer wisdom and they stand outside of the normal legion hierarchy. From Brotherhood of the Storm, we know that the Khan was using battle psykers back on Chogoris and probably in the legion before he, Magnus and Sanguinius set up the Librarius across the legions. We also know that the Khan was fairly fast and loose with listening to orders from imperial authority, so the 'institute a chaplaincy' part of the edit may have been politely ignored.

 

So there might be that but there's nothing specific saying that there were no chaplains. Black would offer a nice visual contrast to the rest of the force. Maybe a heavy mace would look good, particularly if swords and axes are common with the rest of your warriors.

[Guiltysparc]

How do you guys think chaplains would fit into a world eaters force? Zealot would be good synergy from a rules standpoint but I would like a good fluff in also. An combined eaters and word bearers force with some chaplains on loan from lorgar makes sense (thinking armatura/shadow crusade, but the eaters weren't really too thrilled by the bearers).

[Calas Typhon]

How do you guys think chaplains would fit into a world eaters force? Zealot would be good synergy from a rules standpoint but I would like a good fluff in also. An combined eaters and word bearers force with some chaplains on loan from lorgar makes sense (thinking armatura/shadow crusade, but the eaters weren't really too thrilled by the bearers).

 

from a fluff point: there have been Chaplains although they did not care for the Librarius.

 

There was one called Baruda in the 40k World Eaters book Khârn: Eater of worlds, which I must add, was a fantastic read.

[Emperor's Furor]

Blood Angels already had their own form of Chaplains, just to mention, prior to the edict.

[LongGone]

I think you guys are looking at this the wrong way. 'Chaplain' is just a rule set given to a model, and does not necessarily mean that each legion had chaplains. Similarly, not all legions had a position titled 'praetor', 'consul' or 'champion', but I would put good money on them having some kind of equivalent. In this way, all legions had those Astartes who were particularly zealous, and were known for exhorting their peers to even greater heights of badassdom. So yeah, the World Eaters had 'chaplains'. The Scars had 'chaplains'.

 

Go forth, my son, and model that black (or white, or blue, or green) motivator with his powered beatstick/blade of doomery.

[Calas Typhon]

I think you guys are looking at this the wrong way. 'Chaplain' is just a rule set given to a model, and does not necessarily mean that each legion had chaplains. Similarly, not all legions had a position titled 'praetor', 'consul' or 'champion', but I would put good money on them having some kind of equivalent. In this way, all legions had those Astartes who were particularly zealous, and were known for exhorting their peers to even greater heights of badassdom. So yeah, the World Eaters had 'chaplains'. The Scars had 'chaplains'.

 

Go forth, my son, and model that black (or white, or blue, or green) motivator with his powered beatstick/blade of doomery.

It really is not just a rule set given to a model though. In the fluff each Legion had their own versions of morale keepers as an example rather than Chaplains in a sense ( Iron Fathers) and some of the roles said above, but Chaplains were brought in after the edict of Nikea by the Emperor and Malcador through talking with the Primarchs although whether some of the Legions used them or not remains to be seen,  such as the Iron Hands, who did not even have a Librarius at this time unless anyone wishes to correct me on that. Sure there were some ranks that Legions did not hold to title, but they were there in a sense, just under different names and taken on by different characters.

 

I cant comment on the scars only that they did not follow the edict, but the World Eaters did have have Chaplains:

"The Blood Priest. That was what they called Baruda now. Once, he had been a Chaplain, given that honour after the Edict of Nikea, but that was a different, earlier time. Now it was plain to see where his allegiance lay."

 

 

 

In addition to the OP, or anyone else reading. You can do anything you wish, no holes barred, you can paint your units how you wish and you can fill in fluff that is not there how you see fit, No one will or can stop you.

[LongGone]

 

Sure there were some ranks that Legions did not hold to title, but they were there in a sense, just under different names and taken on by different characters.

 

I think you misunderstood what I said, big dog. You say I'm incorrect but then say the exact same thing as me.

 

Identifying 'chaplain' as a ruleset, means that it is a set of rules given to a model meant to fill a specific role on the tabletop. In this way, rules should be taken separately from the fluff. Rules and the tabletop don't translate smoothly to the fluff in universe. The rules just give us a generalized medium to represent the universe on the tabletop. Otherwise the BRB would be the SuperGinormousRuleBookCodexOfErrrythang in order to account for all the differing units/titles/factions/characters/whodickies/thingamabobs and whizbangs. But its not, thank the Emprah. 

 

BLUF: Make your 'chaplain' the chaplain, but you don't have to necessarily call him a 'chaplain'.

 

By the by, where does that quote on blood priests come from?

[Calas Typhon]

 

 

Sure there were some ranks that Legions did not hold to title, but they were there in a sense, just under different names and taken on by different characters.

 

I think you misunderstood what I said, big dog. You say I'm incorrect but then say the exact same thing as me.

 

Identifying 'chaplain' as a ruleset, means that it is a set of rules given to a model meant to fill a specific role on the tabletop. In this way, rules should be taken separately from the fluff. Rules and the tabletop don't translate smoothly to the fluff in universe. The rules just give us a generalized medium to represent the universe on the tabletop. Otherwise the BRB would be the SuperGinormousRuleBookCodexOfErrrythang in order to account for all the differing units/titles/factions/characters/whodickies/thingamabobs and whizbangs. But its not, thank the Emprah. 

 

BLUF: Make your 'chaplain' the chaplain, but you don't have to necessarily call him a 'chaplain'.

 

By the by, where does that quote on blood priests come from?

 

 

But I never said you were wrong about the ranks or even the Chaplains for that matter, sure it was worded poorly in reference to the ranks, but I was confirming what you were saying. Big dog.

 

Khârn: Eater of worlds, was the book.

[LongGone]

Awesome. Thanks homie. I'll have to read that.

[Ironwithout]

I think you guys are looking at this the wrong way. 'Chaplain' is just a rule set given to a model, and does not necessarily mean that each legion had chaplains. Similarly, not all legions had a position titled 'praetor', 'consul' or 'champion', but I would put good money on them having some kind of equivalent. In this way, all legions had those Astartes who were particularly zealous, and were known for exhorting their peers to even greater heights of badassdom. So yeah, the World Eaters had 'chaplains'. The Scars had 'chaplains'.

 

Go forth, my son, and model that black (or white, or blue, or green) motivator with his powered beatstick/blade of doomery.

This is an amazingly helpful answer as well as what Sandlemad said about the Storm Seers pretty much fulfilling the dual role of storms seer and chaplain. I think with this in mind I will convert a Storm Seer on jetbike and use the Chaplain rules when I need to. I think as long as I don't paint him black no one will complain when I use him as a Storm seer in the future.

 

Cheers for the help.

 

Oh and I'm thinking of a power axe rather then a sword. What do you think?