Should I be angry?

[OSO88]

I would really like the communities opinion about something that happened to me a at our last tournament.

I took my own twist on the Lions blade (5man TAC squads in pods with grav canon, I haven't seen anyone else run them like this) to a local 2 day,  5 game event with 19 fairly good players. I won all 4 my first games , in the process beating a really hard hitting mechanicus list and a necron decurion in a kill point game. The last game was a doubles game with 1st placed being paired with last and 2e with 2e to last etc. Due to us only being 19 I got paired with a filler and we lost the game. At this stage according my math and the Tau player who was in 2e (he beat me in the doubles) the 2 of us were tied on Win/loss (3 for a win, 2 for a draw and 1 for a loss) but I was still about 10 points ahead on victory points (total number of objectives scored during the event).

 

However during the doubles game the TO was going around judging painting scores, which was normal, however this year he gave 3 players 1 bonus point to their tournament score for having the 'best' painted armies. Two of these best painted armies happened to be the guys who were 3rd and 4th, so they leap frog-ed us and I ended up 3rd. So I believe everything was by the book and that it was a coincidence that the 3 players who got the bonus points were from the TO's own club. My question is should I be upset about the following:

 

-My army is painted by a pro painter (cost me a lot of money) but during the doubles my filler team mate played with a unpainted army, so if our models weren't intermixed I think I could have and probably should have gotten a bonus painting point as well.

 

-Should something like a painting score count towards tournament points and if it does should there then be a best general and best over all award?

 

-Lastly as the topic title asks should I be angry considering first place got a Imperial Knight and there were no other prizes?

 

There are a number of personal feelings that have nothing to do with what happened that might be flaming my anger:

 

-The guy that won already has 3 knights and he doesn't pay for he's 40k merchandise because he's accountant writes it off as stationary for hes business.

It's also never fun to play this guy, he always brings the newest net list that he painted the night before and doesn't know the rules off, just not fun playing him.

 

-I spent a lot of time and effort prepping for the event and fought tooth and nail to be the only unbeaten player after the first 4 rounds, I was the defending champ and it meant a lot to me personally.

[Elios Harg]

I think battle scores and paint should be kept separate or announced in advance if the event is a "hobby" event where there is some sort of overall score based on paint and battle scores.

 

I also think it's a bizarre format to suddenly make the final round doubles since you can't ensure equal pairings (people typically sign up for doubles tournaments in pairs).

[Chaplain Lucifer]

You could be angry, but it's only a game. Sure it's nice to get first prize and it sucks that some backstage manouvres look strange, but if you have fun take that as your prize. I used to go competitive before and it just burned me out so I started to play just for the games,doing my best and not with the eyes on the prize, took a lot of pressure from it.

[ValourousHeart]

I agree that it is a very weird way to end the tournament.

But I don't think getting angry will accomplish anything.

 

I have faced opponents that were caught cheating and the judges still awarded them first place... and the prizes.

Getting angry about it only served to ruin my day.

 

Unless you get to face everyone at the tournament it is always going to come down to a judges call on who won.

Your choice is to either not play or accept that there will be forces of influence that you will have no control over.

[MasterRaath]

You could get angry. But what would that accomplish really? Even if every player on here said you SHOULD get angry, what would that get you? As the only undefeated player in the event did you really need a Knight? Nah. Its a shame really to not get credit where credit is due and for that I am sorry but getting angry over it will solve nothing. I know in my area there are other spots to play, maybe you should look around for a new group but either way getting angry or holding a grudge serves no purpose. Just my opinion though.

[Gillyfish]

Like the others said, I'm not sure I'd be angry so much as disappointed. However, that doesn't detract from what you achieved which was an impressive tournament performance and the latter is certainly worth celebration - that is probably more important than feeling angry or disappointed. It sounds to me that you did well and if you had a fun day then that's what counts really. Why else do we get involved in the hobby if it's not fun to play?

[Lucien Eilam]

Do you really believe it would be fair to win the tournament on the basis that you can afford to pay somebody to paint your army for you? If nothing else, a tournament should attempt to reward skill, not your wallet.

 

Certainly in the old days on the UK tournament scene, if you didn't paint your own army, you didn't get any points for it at all.

 

But generally speaking, no. Anyone who gets angry over a game of toy soldiers needs to take serious stock of their life.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Focus on the positive, well done you kicked butt. Prizes and placings are smoke and mirrors in the grand scheme of things.

 

You carry your own worth on the inside, don't lessen it with bad thoughts.

[Quixus]

Do you really believe it would be fair to win the tournament on the basis that you can afford to pay somebody to paint your army for you? If nothing else, a tournament should attempt to reward skill, not your wallet.

No. But the TO should be clear in advance if and how the painting will influence your overall performance and if it is permissible to outsource painting. 3 players having the best painted army sounds weird. Either one best or several well painted armies should get bonus points. It is also strange that the OP seems to have been penalized for the unpainted models of his partner.

 

Personally, I would prefer to make painting and/or sportsmanship only a secondary decider. One could use a system similar to football (soccer for you Americans) leagues. 3/1/0 points for wins draws and losses respectively and in case of a tie use some method of determining the paint job and/or sportsmanship.

In a tournament the main factor should be winning games. That does not mean that the same event couldn't also host a painting competition or that sportsmanship should be completely ignored..

[SvenONE]

That's a pretty weird turn of events at the end.  40K tournaments to me are a bit of a "wild west" frontier with situations like this.  One region may play things completely different than another.  For instance, I've never heard of a combined painting score based on pairings based on outcome of the game itself, you could say though that it keeps the spirit of 40K and is based on randomness.  Doubles, in my experience, has exclusively been a "for fun" scenario in most cases and I've usually seen scoring done for the strength of fluff between the two armies.

 

I wouldn't be angry because it sounds like you still (up until the end there) had a good time.  Also, what exactly are you mad about here? The player who won? the fact you lost out on the opportunity to win a Knight? If you've spent so much on pro painting your army, why couldn't you just buy one for yourself outright?  I'd assume it to be a fraction of what you paid for your army to look as good as it does.  

 

Also as a conundrum, what do you think people would think of you had you won best painted army knowing that you didn't paint it yourself when other competitors had?

[Canadian_F_H]

Seeing as most competitions are rigged... If just be mad but keep it private and try to get over it...

 

I've played in about a dozen battle of the bands and every one was rigged, or others were "cheating or gaming" the event...

 

And I've had friends who have done body building competitions... That's more corrupt than your worst conspiracy about elections, lol.

 

So, yeah I'd expect some bs at a local game tourney. At least there you can't deny victory points and you know the guy with the unpainted army can't beat you on the hobby side...

 

If it bothers you enough, you have to be proactive. I suggest be a good politician, and get to know the owner of the shop the tourney happens at, get to know the tourney organizers, and get to know the regular competitors and especially the winners...

[OSO88]

Thanks for all the feedback, bit of a mixed bag which sums up nicely how I feel.

Just to clarify about the painting, we did not know how the scoring would work beforehand. I send my models to a painter because I'm TERRIBLE at it but I enjoy playing with a good looking army and I feel it shows respect to your opponent that you went through some kind of trouble to have a painted army. Appreciate everyone's input, gave me some new perspectives on the hobby and the community.

[aura_enchanted]

you could be angry but you being angry wont change what happened, releasing your rage and moving forward is the path of being a better person

[dtse]

And when you write something off you still have to pay for it.....you just get to dodge some tax. And why that makes you upset is unclear.

[Teetengee]

Yes, let the hate flow through you, know the true power of the dark side chaos gods.

To be honest, if everything about the scoring was accessible ahead of time, then no harm no foul, although I would suggest to them that they have a more fair (i.e. random doubles not determining things) method of judging painting in the future.

If it wasn't, then I wouldn't have entered the tournament for anything other than the reward of playing the game itself, just assume you will lose and not worry about it if the scoring isn't transparent (or hopefully, go to better tournaments instead).

[GruntAngel]

Fun is the most important part but a feeling of transparency and integrity are close second in order to appreciate these events. There is no point in going if you think it's rigged.

 

I would be a bit disapointed too in your place but I would have a chat with the owner in order to settle my expectation for the next event.

[Amayasu]

Turn on the news and be angry at that. Honestly I hate to be that guy, but I stopped reading when I realised you were honestly asking about being angry over some games you played.

[twopounder]

Back in 4th edition, the staff at GW would host tournaments that you paid into ($10 per person) and they set it up for their friends to win. Since around 20 people would play, they got a couple of battle forces before people caught on. I think the one everyone finally figured it out was the kill team game where they allowed 3 wounds and 2+ saves, but only allowed 1 heavy weapon. One of their friends brought in a kitted out demon prince. You know, back when they could be ws7, s9, t6, 4w, i8 with 10 attacks that ignored all saves, including invulnerable and had a jump pack. Then they set up the terrain and said nobody could change it. Think you could shoot your single heavy weapon more than 12"? Hah, nope.

 

Another pretty big indicator is when my friend and I won first place in a doubles tourney, beating their friends soundly (even after catching them cheating multiple times). Then they recounted and we were 2nd. Then they recounted and we were 4th. Magic numbers. Guess who took 1st? Their two friends we nearly tabled.

 

Everyone stopped playing there and from what I hear, the staff was eventually fired. But it was never the same and ended up being shut down.

[IanSturrock]

For me, as long as all the scoring was made clear in the event pack, no worries (although personally I'd never sign up for a tourney that included that weird final round doubles game). If not, it sounds like the TO was manipulating things so his pals won. In that case, I'd be disappointed, and would avoid going to another tourney run by that team, but as long as I'd had enjoyable games on the day, I wouldn't be too mad.

[Stormxlr]

Back in 4th edition, the staff at GW would host tournaments that you paid into ($10 per person) and they set it up for their friends to win. Since around 20 people would play, they got a couple of battle forces before people caught on. I think the one everyone finally figured it out was the kill team game where they allowed 3 wounds and 2+ saves, but only allowed 1 heavy weapon. One of their friends brought in a kitted out demon prince. You know, back when they could be ws7, s9, t6, 4w, i8 with 10 attacks that ignored all saves, including invulnerable and had a jump pack. Then they set up the terrain and said nobody could change it. Think you could shoot your single heavy weapon more than 12"? Hah, nope.

 

Another pretty big indicator is when my friend and I won first place in a doubles tourney, beating their friends soundly (even after catching them cheating multiple times). Then they recounted and we were 2nd. Then they recounted and we were 4th. Magic numbers. Guess who took 1st? Their two friends we nearly tabled.

 

Everyone stopped playing there and from what I hear, the staff was eventually fired. But it was never the same and ended up being shut down.

wow didnt expect people to be such :cuss about a game of toy soldiers, but then I remembered people being :cusss to me for even less than that... so ye. Sorry to hear that. Did you guys try to confront them crooked bastards?

[twopounder]

Back in 4th edition, the staff at GW would host tournaments that you paid into ($10 per person) and they set it up for their friends to win. Since around 20 people would play, they got a couple of battle forces before people caught on. I think the one everyone finally figured it out was the kill team game where they allowed 3 wounds and 2+ saves, but only allowed 1 heavy weapon. One of their friends brought in a kitted out demon prince. You know, back when they could be ws7, s9, t6, 4w, i8 with 10 attacks that ignored all saves, including invulnerable and had a jump pack. Then they set up the terrain and said nobody could change it. Think you could shoot your single heavy weapon more than 12"? Hah, nope.

Another pretty big indicator is when my friend and I won first place in a doubles tourney, beating their friends soundly (even after catching them cheating multiple times). Then they recounted and we were 2nd. Then they recounted and we were 4th. Magic numbers. Guess who took 1st? Their two friends we nearly tabled.

Everyone stopped playing there and from what I hear, the staff was eventually fired. But it was never the same and ended up being shut down.

wow didnt expect people to be such about a game of toy soldiers, but then I remembered people being :cusss to me for even less than that... so ye. Sorry to hear that. Did you guys try to confront them crooked bastards?

They had the manager's support, unfortunately. We did bring it up but it never went anywhere. The one time we directly confronted them was during what was supposed to be a friendly free-for-all vehicle game where they, once more, were being duesch bags. They were all red shirts and threatened to ban us from the store for pointing out that they didn't put all the requirements for the vehicle game in the flyer they posted and seemed to be making them up on the fly to prevent us from putting in our high tier vehicles (they had forge world titans, by the way). Shouldn't have been a surprise that it was just that clique playing that day. We were the only ones who showed up that weren't part of their group. My friend and I switched to another store and spoke with the manager there about it, and they were pretty well known and disliked by everyone in the area.

I think it was maybe 6 months later that they were all gone. The level of pure asshattery was unbelievable. A kid came in carrying his marines in a bag and showed one to a member of the clique while he was working. The guy bounced the marine off a table and sent it flying out of the store into the general area. I accidentally left a veteran sergeant and they tore his arms off for the storm shield and plasma pistol he was carrying before giving it back. They were giggling like little girls when one of them handed it over. They also fed new players blatantly incorrect rules (plasma cannons get a large blast over the squad when they overheat?). It was so bad, we had to go over most of the rules for newer players and teach them the right way.

It was just a madhouse.

So yeah, I'd recommend going elsewhere. If it's GW, let HQ new that they have a bad apple. Something I should have done, actually. If it's a indy store, leave bad reviews on google and anywhere else you can rate them or leave feedback and head elsewhere.