The Imperium Secundus Arc: Waste of Great Potential

[ZebraM]

What people forget when they talk about getting from Isstvan to Terra is that it's not as simple as going from point a to point b. The traitor forces need to secure supply lines, take forge worlds and destroy/prevent any large Imperial force from coming from behind them once they do begin the siege. Also the HH series shows that Horus doesn't fully command his brothers, many of them are off fighting their own battles and seeking their own glory during the Heresy, making it very hard for him to simply plot a cause straight for Terra and attack the Imperial Palace.

[Legatus]

I am fairly certain that the timeline from the 'Collected Visions' book (a few months from Istvaan III to Terra, then several years of Scouring) had already been provided way back in one of the 1st Edition 'Realm of Darkness' books, and then (much shorter) in the 2nd Edition Codex Chaos. In a few days I will be back at home with all my sources, and then will gladly provide the relevant quotes and citations.

 

I also think I remember the Collected Visions mentioning that the rest of the Word Bearers Legion was moving to Terra while the others were attacking Calth, but maybe I am confusing that with the WB Index Astartes.

 

 

ZebraM: It could have taken a few months for the traitors to reach Terra, well enough time to account for all of that. Just not "seven years" to get there. After all, the "spear tip" or "decapitating strike" was a preferred doctrine of Horus. He does not start a protracted galactic war, slowly grinding towards the center of the Imperium. He goes straight for the juggular. And after Istvaan V, with three loyal Legions dead and another three way out of position, he is in the perfect position to do so.

[ZebraM]

That's not how siege or campaign warfare work though. If Horus had raced straight to Terra and besiged it he would've encountered numerous logicistic problems because he neglected to establish supply lines from Forge Worlds to ensure that his armies can acrually fight.

[Marshal Rohr]

I am fairly certain that the timeline from the 'Collected Visions' book (a few months from Istvaan III to Terra, then several years of Scouring) had already been provided way back in one of the 1st Edition 'Realm of Darkness' books, and then (much shorter) in the 2nd Edition Codex Chaos. In a few days I will be back at home with all my sources, and then will gladly provide the relevant quotes and citations.

 

I also think I remember the Collected Visions mentioning that the rest of the Word Bearers Legion was moving to Terra while the others were attacking Calth, but maybe I am confusing that with the WB Index Astartes.

 

 

ZebraM: It could have taken a few months for the traitors to reach Terra, well enough time to account for all of that. Just not "seven years" to get there. After all, the "spear tip" or "decapitating strike" was a preferred doctrine of Horus. He does not start a protracted galactic war, slowly grinding towards the center of the Imperium. He goes straight for the juggular. And after Istvaan V, with three loyal Legions dead and another three way out of position, he is in the perfect position to do so.

.

 

What does the new collected visions say?

[Legatus]

Isn't that just a reprint of the previous one?

 

 

That's not how siege or campaign warfare work though. If Horus had raced straight to Terra and besiged it he would've encountered numerous logicistic problems because he neglected to establish supply lines from Forge Worlds to ensure that his armies can acrually fight.

 

That is exactly how warfare works, in fact, the parallels between the Heresy and Operation Barbarossa are striking. An aggressor* faces an opponent with superior resources and industry**, so he decides to go for a decisive decapitating strike right at the heart of the enemy***. The initial circumstances are highly favourable****, and the aggressor makes quick progress, and very nearly succeeds. But he does get bogged down*****, and eventually the opponent is able to bring additional ressources to bear******, at which point the aggressor is repelled and is driven back in a long, drawn out war*******.

 

And why do you assume that Horus did not establish supply lines in the months before the loyalists attacked Istvaan V? Was Horus just sitting there, waiting?

 

The traitors very nearly succeeded in taking Terra. Horus did not plan to be killed by the Emperor, and he similarly did not plan to be stopped by the Imperial defenses as much as he was. If the traitors had succeeded in breaching the Imperial palace a few weeks earlier, or even just a few days, then Horus could have confronted the Emperor with a few of his brothers. Imagine if he had red juggernaut Angron and poison serpent Fulgrim with him when he faced his father. If the traitors had squashed the three defending Legions, then the traitors could have easily dealt with the three later arriving Legions. Horus almost won, but the defenders held out for too long.

 

*Germany / Traitors

 

**Soviet Russia / Imperium

 

*** Moscow / Terra

 

**** Soviet forces exposed & unprepared / three loyal Legions destroyed, three Legions far away

 

***** record winter / palace defences

 

****** reinforcements from Siberia & fresh produced tanks / three arriving Legions

 

******* rest of WW2, '41 to '45 / Scouring

[Marshal Rohr]

Isn't that just a reprint of the previous one?

 

 

That's not how siege or campaign warfare work though. If Horus had raced straight to Terra and besiged it he would've encountered numerous logicistic problems because he neglected to establish supply lines from Forge Worlds to ensure that his armies can acrually fight.

That is exactly how warfare works, in fact, the parallels between the Heresy and Operation Barbarossa are striking. An aggressor* faces an opponent with superior resources and industry**, so he decides to go for a decisive decapitating strike right at the heart of the enemy***. The initial circumstances are highly favourable****, and the aggressor makes quick progress, and very nearly succeeds. But he does get bogged down*****, and eventually the opponent is able to bring additional ressources to bear******, at which point the aggressor is repelled and is driven back in a long, drawn out war*******.

 

And why do you assume that Horus did not establish supply lines in the months before the loyalists attacked Istvaan V? Was Horus just sitting there, waiting?

 

The traitors very nearly succeeded in taking Terra. Horus did not plan to be killed by the Emperor, and he similarly did not plan to be stopped by the Imperial defenses as much as he was. If the traitors had succeeded in breaching the Imperial palace a few weeks earlier, or even just a few days, then Horus could have confronted the Emperor with a few of his brothers. Imagine if he had red juggernaut Angron and poison serpent Fulgrim with him when he faced his father. If the traitors had squashed the three defending Legions, then the traitors could have easily dealt with the three later arriving Legions. Horus almost won, but the defenders held out for too long.

 

*Germany / Traitors

 

**Soviet Russia / Imperium

 

*** Moscow / Terra

 

**** Soviet forces exposed & unprepared / three loyal Legions destroyed, three Legions far away

 

***** record winter / palace defences

 

****** reinforcements from Siberia & fresh produced tanks / three arriving Legions

 

******* rest of WW2, '41 to '45 / Scouring

IIRC they added a section about the AoD

 

Also, if you read Conquest it breaks down Horus position post-Isstvan V in a way that makes it impossible to bull rush Terra. The traitors had lost too many men after Angron botching Isstvan III, and Isstvan V reducing the original four down to 50% their original size (iirc) so they had to consolidate and recruit. That's all recent additions though.

[Augustus]

With Horus securing the support of the entities of the warp he should have been able to get to Terra very quickly and the Imperium's defenders just as slow. From the stuff I read it seemed that after the Massacre it was a mad dash to Terra with the Dark Angels slowed by the wolves stopping to liberate planned that had thrown support to Horus. And the Ultramarines following closely behind as they regrouped after cath.

 

With the current BL material it's like that story of Alpharius letting a planet's forces have time to entrench themselves instead of just taking them out when they had the chance. Only that planet is now Terra.

[Marshal Rohr]

With Horus securing the support of the entities of the warp he should have been able to get to Terra very quickly and the Imperium's defenders just as slow. From the stuff I read it seemed that after the Massacre it was a mad dash to Terra with the Dark Angels slowed by the wolves stopping to liberate planned that had thrown support to Horus. And the Ultramarines following closely behind as they regrouped after cath.

 

With the current BL material it's like that story of Alpharius letting a planet's forces have time to entrench themselves instead of just taking them out when they had the chance. Only that planet is now Terra.

The FW books cover the minutiae of Horus campaign. Hoping for realistic descriptions outside of an ADB novel is an exercise in futility.

[Noctus Cornix]

Frankly, I just avoided this whole 'Imperium Secundus' thing entirely. Its beyond trivial and it devalues the entirety of the Shadow Crusade, the Signus Campaign and the hell even the Thramus crusade. The prize money is Terra. Why in hell do both Sanguinius and the Lion go away from it, not towards it. 

[Phoebus]

I am fairly certain that the timeline from the 'Collected Visions' book (a few months from Istvaan III to Terra, then several years of Scouring) had already been provided way back in one of the 1st Edition 'Realm of Darkness' books, and then (much shorter) in the 2nd Edition Codex Chaos. In a few days I will be back at home with all my sources, and then will gladly provide the relevant quotes and citations.

I look forward to hearing from you - I've never had a chance to peruse "Realm of Darkness"!

 

I also think I remember the Collected Visions mentioning that the rest of the Word Bearers Legion was moving to Terra while the others were attacking Calth, but maybe I am confusing that with the WB Index Astartes.

What you're thinking of is the forty companies of Word Bearers that Lorgar sends to the Sol System, ostensibly to maintain the ruse of his loyalty to the Emperor. Merrett had some really odd concepts thrown in with VIsions. There was no war going on anywhere near Terra, but for some reason the White Scars and forty Companies of Word Bearers were hanging out there? 

[Phoebus]

Isn't that just a reprint of the previous one?

 

 

That's not how siege or campaign warfare work though. If Horus had raced straight to Terra and besiged it he would've encountered numerous logicistic problems because he neglected to establish supply lines from Forge Worlds to ensure that his armies can acrually fight.

 

That is exactly how warfare works, in fact, the parallels between the Heresy and Operation Barbarossa are striking. An aggressor* faces an opponent with superior resources and industry**, so he decides to go for a decisive decapitating strike right at the heart of the enemy***. The initial circumstances are highly favourable****, and the aggressor makes quick progress, and very nearly succeeds. But he does get bogged down*****, and eventually the opponent is able to bring additional ressources to bear******, at which point the aggressor is repelled and is driven back in a long, drawn out war*******.

That's not an accurate analogy, though. You're conflating the major battles that occurred before the Germans got to Moscow with the Dropsite Masscares, when in fact they represent precisely the battles that Horus would have faced between Isstvan V and Terra. What is true about it is that, absent sufficient logistical support, Horus would have likely suffered the same fate the Wehrmacht did. Hence why Forgeworld did so well (in my eyes) by dedicating a fair amount of text qualifying precisely that necessary "bit" of warfare.

 

Horus undoubtedly would have preferred to perform a decapitating strike, but that doesn't mean this was feasible. The only reason why it was in the older material is because the creators never went into that much detail. So much of it was based on reasoning that amounts to, "because".

[Phoebus]

Frankly, I just avoided this whole 'Imperium Secundus' thing entirely. Its beyond trivial and it devalues the entirety of the Shadow Crusade, the Signus Campaign and the hell even the Thramus crusade. The prize money is Terra. Why in hell do both Sanguinius and the Lion go away from it, not towards it. 

Where Sanguinius is concerned, this is made quite clear at the end of Fear to Tread: upon leaving Signus, his Navigators reported a "dislocation" of the Astronomican (this has, in turn, sparked a debate about Pharos and the Astronomican in the Book XXXIII topic, below). Sanguinius asked them to follow the stronger source, and this led them to Ultramar.

 

Where the Lion is concerned, this is explained in "Savage Weapons" and The Lion: following the events of Isstvan V and the Thramas Crusade, the Lion goes to Ultramar to ascertain Guilliman's intent. He's made it clear that he intends to use his full-strength Legion as a way for him to "be the scale upon which history will be balanced." He intends to ensure that his brothers "... will bleed each other dry, contesting for eternity until there can be no victor." The Lion "... will ensure the Legiones Astartes destroy themselves before another matches the power upon Terra.”

 

Of course, when the Lion and Sanguinius get there, Guilliman convinces them to sign on for Imperium Secundus, instead. I am a huge fan of Abnett's work, but I think this represents his first stumble in the series. The shift in priorities for those three primarchs - fueled by the assumption that Terra has fallen - is simply unrealistic.

[Noctus Cornix]

 

Frankly, I just avoided this whole 'Imperium Secundus' thing entirely. Its beyond trivial and it devalues the entirety of the Shadow Crusade, the Signus Campaign and the hell even the Thramus crusade. The prize money is Terra. Why in hell do both Sanguinius and the Lion go away from it, not towards it. 

Where Sanguinius is concerned, this is made quite clear at the end of Fear to Tread: upon leaving Signus, his Navigators reported a "dislocation" of the Astronomican (this has, in turn, sparked a debate about Pharos and the Astronomican in the Book XXXIII topic, below). Sanguinius asked them to follow the stronger source, and this led them to Ultramar.

 

Where the Lion is concerned, this is explained in "Savage Weapons" and The Lion: following the events of Isstvan V and the Thramas Crusade, the Lion goes to Ultramar to ascertain Guilliman's intent. He's made it clear that he intends to use his full-strength Legion as a way for him to "be the scale upon which history will be balanced." He intends to ensure that his brothers "... will bleed each other dry, contesting for eternity until there can be no victor." The Lion "... will ensure the Legiones Astartes destroy themselves before another matches the power upon Terra.”

 

Of course, when the Lion and Sanguinius get there, Guilliman convinces them to sign on for Imperium Secundus, instead. I am a huge fan of Abnett's work, but I think this represents his first stumble in the series. The shift in priorities for those three primarchs - fueled by the assumption that Terra has fallen - is simply unrealistic.

 

 

 

I understand and I knew both of those reasons, but I just feel there were contrived at best and down right frivolous in any other case. 

 

Would love to see how they plan to some how have the Blood Angels at Terra now with the Ultras and Dark Angels supposedly still fighting to get there.. 

[HeritorA]

The Imperium Secundus will be for at least 3-4 titles (Redmarked audio, some novella, next HH novel about Curze or Guilli and next one about Vulcan)

[Legatus]

Here are some earlier descriptions of the course of the "Horus Heresy" from older material.

 

1st Edition (note: in 1st Edition the original Legions were called 'Chapters'):

 

"During the bombardment [of IStvaan III], loyal Adeptus Astartes officers and troops managed to seize control of the frigate Eisenstein. They had discovered the rot that had been spread through the Warmaster's Chapters and the Adeptus Mechanicus. As Horus completed his withdrawal to Isstvan V the loyalists fled into warp space, carrying a warning to the rest of the Imperium. The seizure of the Eisenstein is regarded as the start of the First Inter-Legionary War.

The Emperor now became aware of the danger, and the Inquisition began a purge of the Adeptus Mechanicus. Fighting broke out immediately as the Mechanicus split into loyalists and rebels. The Legio Cybernetica and Collegia Titanica bases on Mars were immediately besieged by loyalist troops. Out of all the Titan Legions of the Divisio Militaris only those on Terra remained loyal. The rest declared for Horus.

(...) [Two paragraphs about the infighting of the Titanicus]

Across the Imperium rebel units attacked loyalists and vice versa. Old feuds were revived in many systems, giving additional excuse for battle. The rule of the Imperium dissolved into planetary battles. Many units of the Imperial Guard declared for the Warmaster. The Imperial Fleet dithered and managed only to drive rebel ships from the Imperial home systems. In the process they took heavy casualties and retired to their Luna bases.

The Emperor took stock of the situation, and ordered seven entire Marine Chapters, a third of the Legiones Astartes, to destroy Horus and his rebels. Only with the death of the Warmaster, the figurehead and inspiration of rebellion, would the revolt come to an end. The crusade against Horus, although of the utmost urgency, took more than 180 days to plan and launch. Horus used the time well, established his claim as 'New Emperor' with many of the rebels, and spreading the worship of Chaos further afield.

The Warmaster had established a temporary headquarters on Isstvan V. The loyalist Chapters struck in quick succession, and the battles of the Pacification of Isstvan were bloody in the extreme. The first assaults by loyalist Chapters were mauled during their landings, and then destroyed in detail. Three complete Chapters took part in the initial landings on Isstvan; only five Marines, bearing the gene-seed of their departed brothers, eventually managed to escape to carry the news of the disaster to the Emperor. Their own 'loyalist' follow-up waves, rather than attacking the rebels, fell upon their erstwhile allies. Horus had, apparently, managed to corrupt four of the seven Chapters sent against him.

With nine rebel Chapters and the bulk of the Adeptus Mechanicus behind him, and three loyal Chapters destroyed, Horus assaulted Earth. Throughout the Imperium rebel and loyalist units were fighting each other to a virtual standstill, although the tide of battle was turning, ever so slowly, in the Emperor's favour. Possessed as he was, the Warmaster had lost none of his strategic bluntness: crush the heart, and the Imperium could be remoulded in his own warped image.

The Imperial Fleet was bypassed, and its Luna bases destroyed. Within 30 standard days the Warmaster had reduced the system defences, invested Earth, and thrown a ring of Troops about the Imperial Palace. The forces under Horus' command had ceased to be loyal Imperial Marines. They had become the Traitor Legions.

The Adeptus Custodes, the Imperial Fists and Whitescar Chapters, and loyalists of the Collegia Titanica were all that remained on Earth. Even their suicidal bravery and the leadership of the Emperor were not enough to prevent the battle turning into a siege. The rebel Traitor Legions were aided by the machines of the Adeptus Mechanicus and, outnumbered by these, even the braves loyalists could to little. By the 55th day the Traitor Legions and the rebel Adeptus Mechanicus Legions had reached the walls of the Inner Palace.

The situation grew more desperate by the hour and, when the Outer Palace was abandones to the Traitor Legions and their allies, the Emperor acted. He disconnected himself from the Astronomican, a signal for the remainder of the Imperial Fleet that the end, one way or another, was approaching. The Emperor and an elite company of Custodes Adeptus soldiery and Imperial Fist Marines were then teleported into Horus' command bunker. In the fierce fighting that followed Horus was killed (although his body was never found), and the Emperor seriously wounded.

With the death of the Warmaster the rebels paused in their assaults, then fell back to their transports and fled into space. The Imperial Fleet, which had been powerless to intervene while the rebels were within the Palace, gave chase. The Emperor returned to the Palace, where he was placed within a life-bubble; his wounds would have been fatal for an ordinary man. Under his watchful eyes the construction of the Golden Throne, which sustains him to this day, began.

His future assured, the Emperor pronounced judgement on Horus and his Legions. They had broken faith with the Emperor and trafficked with Daemons. They were declared to be the Traitor Legions, rebels against the Emperor of mankind. The Fleet was ordered to drive them back into the Eye of Terror, a system of hell-worlds wrapped in a dust nebula and awash with warpstorms. Here the Traitor Legions would be confined for all eternity; all records and memories of the lapsed Marine Chapters would be expunged from Imperial Archives. Their tied servants and support troops were to be removed from the Isstvan and Davin systems, and sent into the Eye aboard almost derelict hulks. It would be as if the Traitor Legions had never existed. In this decision the Emperor tempered his vengeance with reality - the Imperium had been so weakened by the struggle that no other punishment was possible. As news of the Warmaster's defeat spread through the Imperium widespread fighting was renewed. The loyalists were revitalized by the news, and fell on the rebels. Many Guard and Fleet detachments had withheld their support from both sides. Such indecision was punished by the rebels and loyalists alike. The loyalists bled such formations white in attacks against rebel strongholds. The rebels turned on all within reach in a final despairing orgy of destruction. The fighting continued another seven years before the last rebel formations were destroyed or exiled.

Those who could flee did so, heading for the Eye of Terror. Many had declared for the Warmaster without understanding that Daemon-worship had been the rebellion's cause. They rapidly fell victim to the cultists of the original Traitor Legions, who, it is said, grew bored of a diet of human flesh.

The destroyed Chapters were slowly re-established using what gene-seed had been saved. Many systems, including Davin and Isstvan, were cleansed and placed under the protection of the Inquisition. The unit designation of the Traitor Legions were placed on the inactive list and assigned to new Marine Chapters raised during later foundings.

The Emperor's body had breathed its last, and he entered the Golden Throne. The Traitor Legions and their dead Warmaster vanished into the Eye of Terror. The First Inter-Legionary War - the Horus Heresy - lasted less than a decade, but it nearly destroyed the Imperium."

- 1st Edition 'Realm of Chaos - Slaves to Darkness' (1988), p. 240-243

 

 

2nd Edition:

 

"During the bombardment [of Istvaan III] a handful of Space Marines still loyal to the Emperor seized control of the Frigate Eisenstein. They had discovered the taint of Chaos spreading through Horus's command and as the Warmaster withdrew to Sitvaan V to marshal his forces the loyalists fled into warp space to warn the Imperium.

Horus's fall came as a great shock to the Emperor. He hesitated, stunned by the extent of the Warmaster's treachery, unable to believe that his friend and general was really gathering forces against him. The Inquisition began a purge of the Adeptus Mechanicus and Imperial Guard but fighting broke out almost immediately as both organisations were shattered into loyalist and rebel factions. On Mars Tech-priests fought with ancient, forbidden weapons as both sides strove to win dominance.

The corrupted Imperium tore itself apart as old feuds were revived and ambitious planetary lords seized the opportunity to declare their independence or join with the Warmaster. Many of them did not realise what manner of monster they were allying themselves with but others embraced Chaos wholeheartedly. Planetary battles raged across the galaxy as rebels attacked loyalists or vice versa. The Imperial fleet dithered and only succeeded in driving the rebel ships from the Imperial home system. In the process they suffered such heavy casualties that they withdrew to their Luna bases.

After an almost fatal delay the Emperor finally ordered seven Legions of the Adeptus Astartes to destroy Horus and his rebels. Only with the death of Horus, the figurehead and inspiration of the rebellion, would the revolt come to an end. But organising and mobilising such a crusade to the other side of the galaxy took precious months. Horus used the time well, consolidating his position and establishing his claim as the "New Emperor" within hundreds of systems. Wherever Horus was accepted, the worship of Chaos followed.

The assault of the loyalist Legions against Horus's strongholds on Istvaan V were a disaster. The Legions struck with their customary ferocity and cunning but this time they fought brother Space Marines. Both sides possessed troops as fully capable and hardened as the other, every stratagem and ploy was met and countered. In the end strategy was overtruned by treachery as the initial wave of three loyalist Legions were first mauled during their landings and then destroyed in detail. Only five Space Marines, bearing the gene-seed of their departed brethren, eventually managed to escape and carry the news of the disaster to the Emperor. Somehow Horus had managed to corrupt four of the seven Legions sent against him. After the initial landings the 'loyalist' follow-up waves had attacked their allies instead of the rebels.

Horus now controlled nine Space Marine Legions and had destroyed theee loyal Legions. Throughout the Imperium loyalists and rebels were fighting each other to a virtual standstill, although the tide of battle was turning, ever so slowly, in the Emperor's favour. Horus knew that if he could crush the heart of the Emperor's resistance he could remould the Imperium in his own warped image. He ordered an assault on Earth.

The real tragedy of the Horus Heresy was the ruination of the Emperor's creations - not only the Primarchs but the Space Marines as well. The rebel forces spread material destruction and sorrow, but worse than that, they spread the corruption of Chaos everywhere they went.

Thoughout the galaxy the forces of Chaos became stronger as humans were seduced by the values represented by the Chaos Powers and even to their worship. The Emperor's great spirit was weakened as the better qualities of humanity were perverted and misdirected by the subtle warping influence of Chaos.

(...) [Description of the Battle for Terra, similar to 1st Edition, but without specific durations given. The final duel now takes place on Horus' flagship. Sanguinius is now there as well.]

As news of the Warmaster's defeat spread out from ancient Terra loyalists attacked rebels with renewed vigour. Hard on the heels of the news came loyalist reinforcements and the tide of battle turned decisively against the rebels. The battles still raged on long and hard for a full seven years before the last strongholds were crushed and the last rebel formations were destroyed or exiled.

(...) [Description of the aftermath; banishment and censure of the traitors; state of the Imperium]"

- 2nd Edition Codex Chaos (1996), p. 9-11

 

"Somehow the gene-seed of Horus had mutated. Both the Primarch and his Legion were touched by darkness, a corruption of the spirit and body that became increasingly apparent. The Chaos Gods, dark malevolent beings from the warp, had wrought their evil upon Horus and his armies.

Whilst ostensibly fighting for humanity, Horus was really paving the way for the conquests of Chaos. His dark masters were hatching a plan of their own. The Emperor would be allowed to possess the galaxy only for a moment. He would be encouraged to stretch his empire further and further, until his forces were scattered thinly along the galactic fringe. Then the Dark Gods would strike. Horus, their chosen champion, would lead his forces upon the unprotected Earth and crush the Emperor with one swift blow.

(...)

It would take many pages and much time to describe in full the attack of Horus upon Earth and his subsequent defeat. Suffice it to say that the short war ended when the Emperor teleported onto Horus's battle barge and slew the Warmaster in hand-to-hand combat. (...)

The defeated Traitor Legions were driven from Earth and escaped into the region of Chaos known as the Eye of Terror, where they remain to this day. (...)

- 2nd Edition Codex Ultramarines (1995), p. 7-8

 

"Whilst the Horus Heresy plunged the Imperium into savagery and civil war, the Ultramarines were engaged on the southern edge of the galaxy. Their very success had carried them far from Earth and isolated them from the conquering armies of Horus in the north-east. News of Horus's treachery did not even reach the Ultramarines until the attack on Earth was underway. Tanks to the speed of Horus's attack there was little that Roboute Guilliman could do. (...)

The Second Founding of the Space Marines was decreed seven years after the death of Horus. (...)

- 2nd Edition Codex Ultramarines (1995), p. 12-13

 

"The Horus Heresy

Horus was the greatest of the Primarchs and the most trusted of all the Emperor's generaly. None guessed that he owed his success to more than mortal courage. Later events showed that Horus served a darker master and that his loyalty to humanity was nothing but a pretense from the start. Somehow his gene-seed had been mutated, corrupting both the Primarch and his Legion. While pretending to fight for humanity, Horus and the troops under his command were actually slaves of the Chaos Gods. When the time was right Horus turned on the Emperor, leading his Legions upon Earth in an attempt to crush the Emperor with one swift blow. (...)

It would take many pages to describe in full the attack of Horus upon Earth and his subsequent defeat. Suffice to say the short war ended when the Emperor teleported onto Horus's battle-barge and slew the traitor. However, before he died Horus mortally wounded the Emperor and killed Sanguinius, Primarch of the Blood Angels."

- 2nd Edition Codex Angels of Death (1996), p. 6

 

"Then came the terrible days of the Horus Heresy. As the Emperor fought Warmaster Horus for the possession of the Earth, Lion El'Jonson was far away fighting for humanity alongside Leman Russ, Primarch of the Space Wolves Legion of Space Marines. Hearing of the potentially disastrous proceedings taking place around Earth, the two generaly hurried back as quickly as they could."

- 2nd Edition Codex Angels of Death (1996), p. 12

 

 

4th Edition:

 

"After the dreadful battle for Istvaan III, the Warmaster Horus established a new headquarters on the fifth planet of the Istvaan system. He had a plan to destroy the last remaining loyal Legions that was to be fulfilled on this barren, lifeless orb. This would remove the final obstacle standing between him and the Imperial Throne of Terra and dominion over all the worlds of the Imperium. He was sure he would soon be crowned Emperor.

Horus had conceived of the plan even before the events on Istvaan III had started. He knew full well that the Emperor would seek to crush any rebellion long before it could threaten Terra itself. The attack on the third planet of the Istvaan System had been intended to goad the EMperor into attacking him. Horus had prepared for this. It was why he had instructed certain Primarchs to keep their alignment secret. Whatever forces the Emperor could send against him would include among their number many who had committed themselves to the Warmaster."

- The Horus Heresy: Collected Visions (2004-2007), p. 261

 

"The Siege of Terra in the Wake of the Dropsite Massacre

The forces of the rebel Warmaster Horus had won a great victory on the bloodstained plains of Istvaan V. Almost the entirety of three loyal Legions of Space Marines had been annihilated by Horus's traitorous army. The Primarch Ferrus Manus was dead - killed at the hands of his former brother Primarch Fulgrim of the Emperor's Children Legion. The Primarhcs Corax and Vulkan were missing, also presumed dead by the victors, though their bodies had not been recovered from the corpse-strewn battlefield.

Horus convened a summit of his most senior officers to outline his plans for the forthcoming assault on Terra. (...)

'We have achieved much, but there is still more for us to do. Our victory here will count for little if we do not press onwards. Now is the time for us to take the war to the Emperor himself. We are to make immediate preparation for an invasion of Terra and an assault on the Imperial Palace. This will not be an easy task.'"

- The Horus Heresy: Collected Visions (2004-2007), p. 330

 

"Horus was preparing his forces for the invasion of Terra and the attack against the Imperial Palace. The Primarch Lorgar had joined him and assumed command of the Word Bearers who took part in the Dropsite Massacre. The rest of Lorgar's Legion was still fighting the Ultramarines at Calth in Ultramar.

'We are to make immediate departure for the Solar System. My agents inform me that Mars has fallen to us. Our allies within the Mechanicum have been successful in their struggle to free the manufacturing facilities there from the thrall of the Imperials. As I speak, they are repairing the systems damaged in the fighting and those deliberately sabotaged by our enemies and are reactivating the munitions and armaments factories. The Legions of Mortarion, Fulgrim, Angron, Lorgar and my own Sons of Horus will rendezvous at Mars. Our allies on Mars have been instructed to make available to us supplies of any and all newly fabricated armours and weapons for our Space Marines. As soon as our Legions have been re-supplied we shall launch our invasion of Terra. I shall personally command the operation from aboard the Vengeful Spirit."

[Horus also sends Curze, Alpharius and Perturabo off to keep the other remaining loyal Legion soccupied while he assaults Terra.]

- The Horus Heresy: Collected Visions (2004-2007), p. 332

 

 

6th Edition:

 

"[After Istvaan V] The Imperium was soon entirely engulfed by civil war. All across the galaxy, loyalists and rebels fought tooth and nail to destroy each other, gripped in a bitter conflict that would see all of Mankind fall - or worse, enslaved by the Ruinous Powers. Even with his Space Marines, his daemonic allies and half the Titan Legions behind him, Horus could sense that time was of the essence. He needed to crush the Emperor's followers before they could consolidate, with a blow that would break the Imperium forever - nothing less than a full-scale assault on the seat of the Emperor's power.

Horus' numbers gre, and his hordes pushed on inexorably towards Segmentum Solar. Displaying the tactical brilliance that had once dazzled the enemies of the Imperium, Horus outwitted the Emperor's forces again and again, finally launching a well-orchestrated and audacious attack on Terra and assaulting the Emperor's Palace itself."

- 5th Edition Codex Chaos Space Marines (2012), p. 10

 

"In the wake of the Dropsite Massacre, Horus convened a summit of his most senior officers to outline his plans for the forthcoming war. (...)

'We have achieved much, but there is still more for us to do. Our victory here will count for little if we do not press onwards. Now is the time for us to take the war to the Emperor himself. We are to make preparations for an invasion of Terra and an assault upon the Imperial Palace. This will not be an easy task.'"

- The Horus Heresy - Visions of Heresy, Book One (2013), p. 220

 

 

As you can see, the account from 1st Edition was quite detailed, going even so far as to provide specific durations for certain events (180 until the loyalists are attacking Istvaan V, 30 days to bypass the system defences of Earth, 55 days of besieging the Imperial Palace). There is some undescribed type elapsing between those events, but it is clear that the "Heresy" pretty much goes immediately from Istvaan V to Terra. Most notably, it is stated that the fighting continues for a further seven years after the Siege is ended, and that in its entirety the conflict lasted for less than a decade. (Here the "Scouring" is considered as part of the conflict.)

 

There are a few notable descriptions in 2nd Edition. It is emphasized that Horus had prepared his rebellion well in advance of Istvaan III, and that once started he intended for the rebellion to be a "swift blow". The death of Horus was also described as ending this "short war". (The "Scouring" is now a separate.) The Ultramarines and the Dark Angels are described as too far away when the Heresy happens, which makes sense if it was a quick coup, instead of a several year long campaign.

The longer account in the Chaos Codex follows the one from the 1st Edition 'Realm of Chaos' closely, but does not give specific time frames.

 

The 'Collected Visions' book (released around 4th Edition) maintains this timeline. Some orchestrated campaigns are mentioned to keep loyal Legions away from Istvaan V (to improve the odds for a favourable loyalist/traitor ratio of the force sent against Horus). After that, some traitor Legions are sent on campaigns to occupy the loyal Legions while Horus and the rest assault Terra.

 

The later revised 'Visions of Heresy' book omits some of the descriptions from 'Collected Visions' and changes the copied passage in subtle ways. Originally Horus and the summit were discussing "the forthcoming assault on Terra", in the new book it is "the forthcoming war". Originally he ordered "immediate preparations for an assault on Terra", in the new book the "immediate" is removed. The section where he orders the immediate departure for the Solar System is also removed. This allows for a more drawn out campaign, even though their eyes are set on Terra.

The 6th Edition Codex Chaos is also somewhat more permissible of a longer war, describing the traitors' "inexorable" advance on Terra. However, it is also said that Horus know time was of the essence, and that he intended to deliver the blow before the Imperium would be able to consolidate their forces.

[ZebraM]

The initial versions of the Horus Heresy had much smaller scale though. It says that only five loyalist marines made it out from Isstvan V and refers to the Legions as nothing more than chapters. With the bump in scale that has come from the BL series and the Forge World books it's obviously going to bring with it more in world issues and prehaps a longer time period.

[Phoebus]

Legatus,

 

This discussion is in danger of getting derailed. I'm guilty of my part in that, as I love getting your perspective on this setting's lore. Don't get me wrong, there is certainly a good discussion to be had about the scale and the timeline of the Heresy and how it has changed over the years, but this probably isn't the place.

 

The fact that the Heresy had a more condensed timeline in the older lore is not up for dispute. This has always been a setting of "loose canon", though; the people who define this setting have adjusted it over the years - sometimes subtly, some times more drastically - to make it more detailed, more defined, and, yeah, more sensible. The expansion of the Horus Heresy timeline is part of that.

 

The fact that the older lore is kind of all over the place regarding what exactly the Ultramarines were doing, and when they did it, is also not up for dispute. That's not to say that there isn't a good reason for this. Absent an actual explanation, though, it was always going to be an awkward arrangement wherein the reader fills in the blanks for the best of their ability. The Shadow Crusade and Imperium Secundus was an attempt to address this.

 

At the end of the day, though, this discussion is about neither of the above. It's about the Imperium Secundus arc: whether or not it was told well, and whether or not it supported the larger Horus Heresy series.

[Legatus]

Yes, sorry for the long tangent.

 

The point of it was that originally the Heresy simply hadn't been seven years from Istvaan III to Terra. But then BL said that it now was, so they had to come up with something that happened during those years. And they came up with the Imperium Secundus.

 

Which is not exactly a good argument for why the Heresy had to be longer in the first place.

[Phoebus]

Well, no, it's not. But then, I would offer that the Heresy didn't require Imperium Secundus as justification to be longer.

[veterannoob]

Oh, how I wish I had a UK charger for my phone :-( this might be in FW book 6 but in the WHW exhibition room5 for HH opened with BaC box set when you walk in there's a timeline on your left wall, along with those new legion posters such as the TS we saw online last month. Does anyone happen to have or know someone who has pictures of that. Or maybe one of you will conveniently be at WHW;) I know, if only, right. My phone died during the 2 story display so no pics, sadly. But that timeline would be a great reference. It's quite packed.

[HeritorA]

I think Imperium Secundus should have been covered in 3 books (novels and novellas) - no more.

But due to the absence of ideas for the last year before the Siege of Terra - they are making up Imperium Secundus stuff. It will end for sure in A-D-B  HH novel 'Nightfall'  and not before that. Sevatar will die, and everyone will move to Terra at last. 

[Taliesin]

I think Imperium Secundus should have been covered in 3 books (novels and novellas) - no more.

But due to the absence of ideas for the last year before the Siege of Terra - they are making up Imperium Secundus stuff. It will end for sure in A-D-B  HH novel 'Nightfall'  and not before that. Sevatar will die, and everyone will move to Terra at last. 

 

Nightfall was cancelled years ago. That book became Pharos by Guy Haley, out now ine-book form, and hopefully in hardcover asap.

[Augustus]

That's unfortunate, Talisein.

[HeritorA]

Taliesin - A-D-B said it wasn't cancelled. It was postponed due to his schedule and he didn't want to write HH at that time.

But if he will be busy and tired after the 'Master of Mankind' - Guy Haley would definitely give us the 'Nightfall' story and will end Imperium Secundus once and for all 

From the officially cancelled books from BL right now - only 'Deathwatch 2' from Steve Parker was confirmed. He become entangled into health and bodybuilding more than anything else, so he has no time or joy to write it.