Predator tactics

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Hi guys, I have 2 predators that im currently using in my white scars. The main gun is interchangeable on one and will eventually be on the second.

 

So far ive used them both as a squadron of exterminator equiped battle tanks but seeings as I have the option to use different weapons on them I want to know how to use them for the best.

 

Some options I know are considered sub-par but I dont want this to be a bashing thread nor one that suggests "buy something else". Suggestions in how to makd the most out of what you have

 

The Exterminators varient did well in the two games ive fielded them in. The first game they performed brilliantly targeting units of ultramarines with articifer armour that woulf have posed a threat

They were ideal for the fire support role as they didnt require any support and had the range to hit most target and the mobility to gain line of sight.

Probably the most simple option to use as they dont need to be used in any form of combined arms

 

The rest of my suggestions are mostly theories but i'd appreciate the imput of actual experience!

 

Predator cannon- the most basic of the guns available. A 4shot autocannon. My guess this would be best fielded in squadrons of 3 to make use of weight of fire. Either heavy bolter or lascannons sponsons would work well- heavy bolters adding more dice to the wound count and lascannons dening a save.

With heavy bolters, if you can bring all to bear (unlikely I know) your squadron could be throwing a maximum of 30 dice at the enemy, thats upwards of 6 failed 3+ armour saves- could hurt a suppodt squad that could!

Also could be good for stripping shields of a titan. (they probaby wouldnt be given more than one opportunity to do that tho....)

 

Magna-melta- one of my favorite ideas! Melta? Large blast? Yes please!!

Now the cons- devastating short range. You could not leave these tanks to get on with it unsupported. They will be too close to the enemy.

These tanks would require real skill to use successfully. And I would love to hear from people who do use them!

They have an exceptional main gun. As it has regular melta stats it will hurt what ever it shoots and deny most saves. Independent characters would want to stay clear if they are t4 because of instant death!

Not sure how they would do vs say a mechanised list, would it crack open large numbers of tanks?

I would think these are best used in 1-2 strong squadrons in an agressive push to provide a midtable 'anvil' supported by tacticals in rhinos and possibly assault marines. Keep them cheap, and use the tacticals and rhinos to protect their vulnerable flanks. Assualt marines tie up anyone getting too close

 

Flame storm- ah the bbq tank! For the Auzzie in each of us ("jus chuck anothed heretic on the barby mate!").

Damned if I know what to do with them! My best guess would be use singly as a suicidal distraction or go heavy on ranged upgrades like havocs and lascannons and only use the main gun on targets of opportunity or assaulters who have gotten too close.

The idea of funneling enemy squads through a bottle neck and roasting them appeals so maybe they would be found a use in city fights where you have no choice other than risking charging through the gap between buildings.

 

Heavy conversion beamer- cannot move and fire so a static gun platform. Like the Executioner easy to use. Set up in a commanding location and just keep firing. Lascannons would suit well. Unfortunately you have hard choices if they are threatened. The exterminator can move away and still keep shooting its main gun. The HCB needs to remain still to fire so you have to choose between saving the tanks or getting as many shots off before they die.

 

I would think just go lascannons and nothing else in a squadron of these and go for a large squadron you want to be droppi ng as many pie platss as you can. You should be far enough back that things lime armoured ceremite arent required!

 

Phew. Thats loads of waffle from me, some one else want to talk for a bit on upgrades?

[God-Potato of Mankind]

I like to keep Magna-melta preds in reserve/near objectives. 

 

A lot of people I fight do alpha strike/deep strike deathstars. If you have 2 S9 AP1 Blast meltaguns awaiting that, the results can be fun. 

 

Pair with a plasma deredeo for similar/enhanced effect. 

[Iron Dude]

30 shots with autocannons and heavy bolter? u forgot the pintle mounted extra heavy bolters^^

Im playing the dakka pred squad if that im going to play against infantry.

[helterskelter]

Iron hands get a good deal out of predators, with their ROW. And it gets better with manus on the field too. outflank, iwnd, tooled for purpose can be devastating to an opponent

[Tiger9gamer]

I had a singular, but good, experience with a POTMS predator executioner in my last 30k game. It moved fast enough to get better angles on the enemy infantry and could still fire at targets well outside it's range. I think maybe a squad of those could be fun.

[Tribalminer]

Totally agree on the Predator Executioner being great. It needs the POTMS upgrade which makes the chassis quite pricey, but its a good response unit, and it works really well in an aggressive list. I've been using mine with Lascannon sponsons, just for the extra AP2, and to make it even better against armour, what have other people being adding to the Executioner variant? 

 

Not to bash, but although the Magna Melta sounds good, I'm not quite sure what it can do that a Vindicator can't, and its more expensive. Its highly specialized for running up against things without armoured ceramite (i.e. 40k guard), but its a little too specialised for my liking. The Predator Cannon is a solid choice for anti infantry dakka, but it is worth noting that it could take sponson Lascannons and a pintle heavy bolter, and be able to mix between anti-infantry and anti-light armour. I haven't been brave enough to use the Flamestorm Cannon, but I imagine its just the same as the Baal Predator in 40k - move, flame, explode. It should be a solid choice however, since unless I'm mistaken, there are a lot of 3+ save infantry in 30k :) I've had problems with the Heavy Conversion Beamer, but that is entirely due to terrain density. You have to be shooting at long range with that thing to get the most out of it, and that means you need 2 predators with overlapping fields of fire on either side of the board. It doesn't work when there's a half dozen buildings to block line of sight. You also need some way of defending it, so if you're playing an aggressive list, they can get exposed and destroyed. 

 

Upgrades wise, I find the POTMS is vital for the Flamestorm, Magna Melta or Executioner guns, just because there's no point being stuck going slow and not shooting. I am a bit more biased towards the ability to maneuver though since I tend to play on a lot of city maps, so the extra 6" ability to move is often the difference between being able to shoot or not. I don't tend to take any of the other defensive upgrades (Auxilliary Drive, Extra Armour or Armoured Ceramite), just because the tank tends to get expensive with all the guns on, and it doesn't have the staying power of the Sicarian or a Land Raider (which fits the background). I do use Dozer Blades, but again, I fight in a lot of cities, so its obviously going to be more valuable than if you're fighting on planet bowling ball. 

 

I don't tend to take Pintle-Weapons, but that's because I tend to run out of points a bit to quickly 

[RandomMarine]

I run 3 canon and las preds and I find that at sub 2000 points they work quite well but above that there is to many toys that they can't really touch

[Wolf Lord Loki]

What do people make of the pintle mounted weapons? Heresy gets much more choice than 40k but how often are we going to use it?

 

I can see that if you have heavy bolter sponsons then a 3rd one (in a pinitle mount with 360 degree fire arc) is vertually a no brainer.

 

But under what circumstances would combi weapons or heavy flamers win out? As much as I love the idea of a 4 flamer predator I cant see much practicality in it. Although could it have merit as a deterent to assaulting infantry in a ranged squadron?

 

A one off melta shot on top of the magna melta could assist with tank busting you will already be 'danger close' to fire the big gun and it is an established fact of wargaming that you always need just one more gun to bring the Beast down after firing the big guns!

[helterskelter]

Omni flamer pred or a trio of them is exactly what you need for cult horde armies. Mmm toasty.

[GreyCrow]

While the Magna Melta is a good concept, it's really oddly designed !

 

Since 6th edition, the reliable way to deal with vehicles is to have the ability to strip off their hull points. Meaning that, much like squad, the weapon/unit needs to have a sufficient number of shots to :

1) Hit with enough shots

2) Penetrate with enough shots

3) Have enough shots left after the cover save

4) Eventually AP2 or AP1 to explode

 

In 7th, going for the explosion is that much harder with basically only a 1/3 chance with AP1 ! 50% chance was decent, but 33% chance on every penetrating hit means that, assuming the worst case scenario with a vehicle in a 4+ cover save scenario, you need to have at least 6 penetrating hits to statistically ensure an Explodes!

 

Problem is, with the big blast only netting 1 hit per model under the template, and the vehicle counting as only 1 model, you'd need 6 magna melta Predators to blow a single tank with good reliability. Landspeeder squadrons with multi-meltas have a higher chance of doing this.

 

Blasts are great against infantry because of their ability to cover multiple models. But infantry doesn't care about Melta, nor it cares about AP1. So, a Vindicator does essentially the same job, with extra range and +1 S which allows to instantly kill those pesky T5 Praetors.

 

Where things gets worse is due to the abundance of Armoured Ceramite that people are likely to throw on their most prized possessions like Land Raiders, Super Heavies or Spartans (and rightfully so). In that case, the melta becomes even less interesting. And that's not even counting the super short range of the gun :/

So, the Executionner Cannon or the Autocannon work well enough in that respect, due to the ability to throw several hits on light armour.

 

So, great concept on the Manga Melta, poor execution.

____

 

The way I would personnally run the Predators (in squadrons of 3) is either :

1) Predator Autocannon with HB like someone else mentionned, they will wreck light armour

2) Executionner with Lascannons

3) Full toasting machine with flamers all around, POTMS and Armoured Ceramite. It gets pricey but you don't want to give the opposing meltas anymore ease that they owuld have at this short range.

[Theredknight]

I frequently take out 2 preds, with auto cannon, pintle hb and hb sponsons, can do pretty well against heavier infantry or normal marines. Plus there's always more important things to shoot at. But it's a lot of dakka!!

[Hesh Kadesh]

A wall of dakka preds can act like a tougher AV13 wall, or can scoot round the flank and open up on weaker side armours of vehicles. 4 S7 shots, even without additional augments will pick up its own tally, and you can always tank shock enemies off of objectives etc.

[Charlo]

A wall of dakka preds can act like a tougher AV13 wall, or can scoot round the flank and open up on weaker side armours of vehicles. 4 S7 shots, even without additional augments will pick up its own tally, and you can always tank shock enemies off of objectives etc.

Hell hath no dakka like a squadron if three dakka Preds outflanking.

 

27 Heavy Bolter shots and 12 Auto cannon shots. Gunna hurt something.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Don't even need the Heavy Bolters, although you can put the points into them if you wish, i'd personally strip them away first time i needed points - although as I don't face much militia/auxilia, this could be different, but you're adding, like 105pts to a squadron to do that.

[Trydragon]

I Use IH, with there RoW the Magna-Melta Can actually Shine I run a Squadron of 3 Preds 2 are set up with Pred cannons and HB one had a Magna-Melta and HB with Machine Spirit. I outflank the Squadron bringing it on usually the Melta in range of something i always intended it too kill tanks but it ends up hit Termy units or big Tactical Blobs, wile the Pred Cannons Glance things to death on there side or back armour.