Angels of Wrath Color Scheme Opinions.

[Lostrael]

 

Where the possibility of being recalled to Caliban is concerned, however... Wolf King makes it seem that Luther did not try to recall every garrison he had sent out, not even after he declared rebellion against the Emperor.

Perhaps he tried to contact them but the warp storms prevented that.

 

Do you recall some hint in what shape the Dark Angel battle-fleet was after the destruction? I imagine a lot of data was lost. 

[Sete]

Im sorry if it sounds boring xD, but I dont work in the shadows nor do I need a secret scroll inside a secret box inside a secret fortress to enjoy a chapter. Quoting Dorn here, Honour, duty, unyielding will. This is my everyday mantra and its enough for a chapter.

Im rolling foward with this project :)

Hopefully more info will come from the HH books.

Lets take this hipotesis:

They are trained at caliban by luther and sent out. While on duty , by chance they receive a Astropathic message that Terra is under siege by Traitors. They start warping to terra but arrive lets say 20 years later and lets assume guilliman is reforming the Legions into chapters. They learn that Caliban was destroyed and the Lion and Luther are dead as far as they know. Never having served with the primarch fleet and seeing that only the DA loyal to the Lion are alive,(which is highly suspicious) they choose to form their own chapter apart from the main body of the unforgiven. The ones that want to try and connect with the new DA form the Angels of Vigilance. The ones that are more bitter for being left behind by the primarch and dont trust DA version of events form the Angels of Wrath.

They are regarded with suspicion, despite not knowing the events that transpired at caliban and the DA reject them as their sucessores ( which actually is the fluff of Angels of Vigilance).

The Angels of Wrath adopt the Codex Astartes as a mean of political protection and depart to an unkown location persuing their own crusade against the enemies of mankind, being denied for many years an active role on the great crusade and Horus Heresy, they will bring down their wrath upon the enemies of mankind. Their loyalty is to the Emperor alone.

[Phoebus]

It's never qualified exactly what the disposition of the Dark Angels Legion was after the destruction of Caliban. Considering that The Unforgiven qualified that only ...

 

 

eleven

 

 

... Successors were born of the Dark Angels in the Second Founding, though, we can surmise that their Legion suffered terrible losses between the events of The Unremembered Empire and the end of the Scouring.

 

To address your point re: how much data was lost, I would guess that really comes down to how many of the higher-ranking officers survived (ones that would be privy to the strategic disposition of the Legion and all its assets), and whether or not the Invincible Reason was destroyed or not.

 

At the end of the day, though, the number of "What If?" scenarios that could allow knowledge of a loyal Lutherite Chapter to be lost to the post-Caliban Dark Angels is limited only by one's imagination.

[Phoebus]

They are regarded with suspicion, despite not knowing the events that transpired at caliban and the DA reject them as their sucessores ( which actually is the fluff of Angels of Vigilance).

Are you sure about this? The only thing I've ever seen is that they may be one of the Dark Angel's successor Chapters, but that this is unconfirmed and that they are not listed in the Apocrypha of Davio as such. I think you're thinking of the Star Phantoms Chapter, which was introduced in Imperial Armour vol. 10, The Badab War Part II.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Anything that messes with the established second founding and having lost brothers being not being connected to DA is not the best start for a chapter. At some point sharks wił be jumped and odd explanations for even simple stuff will surface.

Like this:DA were divided by themselves so any DA force had to be connected to DA in some way to be part of a founding. I am pretty sure the garrison would mysteriously disappear after contact with DA.

[Harleqvin]

Angels of Vigilance only believe they are successor of DA. It has not been shown who actually is their parent chapter and according to the fluff/lore, there is no documentation as to who they were founded from.

 

It's kinda hard according to the fluff to have a DA successor chapter to not be with the Unforgiven as a whole. Probably would be good to have it that they don't go do Unforgiven directives unless it's extremely dire. That would seem more feasible.  Could go with them being "questioned" and seen no descent in the ranks and they just don't want to be fully a part of the Unforgiven because of trust issues. But it's highly improbable that the DA would just let them run off without some chain of command still established. Part of the reason for my DA chapter background I was working with and now has more merit but needs some retooling.
More or less, fluffwise there would need to be some working with the Unforgiven if you are to have them openly be from the DA somehow.

or could go a route simliar to Angels of Absolution where they don't feel they are guilty anymore and it just causes some issues when they do happen to do joint operations with fellow Unforgiven.

[Sete]

Well I don't need then to be open about their origins. Wont even be using DA rules for gameplay. Its more fun to try and fit in chapter somewhere than just say it's from an unkown founding with suspected DA gene seed. Since I have a DA player around they could even fight each other.

[Harleqvin]

I was going with openly from DA with you saying they are legion DA that appeared 20ish years after everything went down with terra and destruction of Caliban, and then became a second founding chapter. It would be known by the DA who they were, if going by that.

As said, you could just have them be a chapter that believes they are founded from DA but no proof of it, like the Angels of Vigilance. They aren't actually from DA, at least currently aren't, but they believe they are.

[Sete]

Apparently if they go openly DA I need some kind of plot protection so they dont mysteriously disapear xD

[Harleqvin]

If going a bit with fluffy/lore, yeah. More so if there is some how some connection to Luther, more than just that they were trained after Luther arrived on Caliban, as all the new trained technically trained by Luther then. But all the successor chapters of DA are part of the Unforgiven in some fashion.

Which is why for mine I think I can get away with it, with a bit more tinkering, because of book three of the Legacy of Caliban series, The Unforgiven.

[Lostrael]

Honor, duty and unyielding will are fine attributes. I just wanted to tease you a bit. It's a bad habit I know, can't get a rid of it.

There are a lot of gaps in the DA history, where one could place their own chapter story, but there is always a risk that the next book will turn everything upside down.

[Sete]

Yeah its true. I don't mind criticism and opinions because in the end it helps to improve the general idea.

I have been trying to make a DiY chapter for a long time now, and I like where this one is going. Just ordered 20 ravenwing shoulder pads, a ravenwing champion helmet with those small wings ( I wonder if they will fit on a MK4 helmet) and a champion caliban blade, but not sure if I will use it. And a closed hand from sternguard sprue just in case I dont go for a 2 handed pose.

[Harleqvin]

The helmet wings from the RWCS box can fit. You will just need to file/cut off a bit behind where the talon/claw is on the bottom. It's designed to be used for the helmet from that sprue. there's an inlay for them to set into.

If you are talking about the Ravenwing Command Squad/Black Knight box.

[Sete]

The helmet wings from the RWCS box can fit. You will just need to file/cut off a bit behind where the talon/claw is on the bottom. It's designed to be used for the helmet from that sprue. there's an inlay for them to set into.

 

If you are talking about the Ravenwing Command Squad/Black Knight box.

Yes its indeed that one. i will have the helmet even i use the corvus armour its no issue i have plenty of bits around. For my commander i will try to fit Sargent Raphael tabard from the dark vengeance set. if it does not work like i want i have a unused  body with robes.

[Lostrael]

I'm looking forward to see them assembled.

[Harleqvin]

The surplice front of Raphael won't be hard to make it work with different torso back, and legs. Just that one tab/stud on the bottom inside needs removed. I'm going to do the same for a few models. Personally I want to get more of just that front.

I have four of them. Bought 2 full DV sets and one DA half when they first came out in 6th ed, got three of the limited Int-Chaps because of it, Then later on bought another DA half from a friend for pretty cheap. Several conversions are coming from it and I wanted the bikes and TDAs. lol. I have a lot of Aquila removing to do on three remaining Tactical squads (as I sold one Tactical set after converting a normal front onto the Raphael base because I wanted to keep the Surplice front. lqtm.). Doing Pre/Heresy era DA.

I look forward to see what you do for color scheme and how you tinker with your lore to* get it how you want.

 

* = edits

[Sete]

I will be using the BaC set. Plenty of MK4.

Reading on lore atm to see if something comes up .

[Harleqvin]

Swingin', mate.
BaC is a nice set. Especially for the cost of it. Lots of options. It's better than DV box for the price and what you get. All those options is like having bought 3 tactical squad boxes, except no grav-weapons. lqtm.

I ran out of likes for the day. So I decided to comment instead. lqtm. ={D>

[Sete]

So in the Unforgiven novel its said that the inner circle was founded decades after the first founding with 12 second founding chapters when chyper pops up at the rock and warns them about the fallen.

I think I can use this.

[Phoebus]

Angels of Vigilance only believe they are successor of DA.

Not even that is said - at least not in Codex: Eye of Terror, and the Armageddon material. Very little information on the Angels of Vigilance is available and all of it (?) appears to be from an outside perspective.

It has not been shown who actually is their parent chapter and according to the fluff/lore, there is no documentation as to who they were founded from.

Correct. The Chapter's ethos, and the link between their homeworld and the Dark Angels are the main reasons why outsiders link the Angels of Vigilance with the Unforgiven.

So in the Unforgiven novel its said that the inner circle was founded decades after the first founding with 12 second founding chapters when chyper pops up at the rock and warns them about the fallen.

I think I can use this.

That should probably go in spoilers, as not everyone on this board has read the novel in question. You also need to re-read the part you're citing... unless you count the Dark Angels themselves as a Second Founding Chapter.

[Harleqvin]

yeah. I messed up on that. it's just written as it being believed because of the monastic look of them. Not that the chapter believes that.

[Sete]

Well decided in the colours.

After a history research, im going with my original silver and green.

1st company will have black armour and red clothes. Silver symbol.

Inpired on Military order of Aviz and Nuno Alvares Pereira.

Lore wise with the lack of Information about the fall of caliban and pre heresy DA I will go for one of the 12 chapters of the Unforgiven. No bikes tho. Not a fan.

After seeing DR converted interrogator chaplain, I need one of those. Winged helmet, upgrade sprue sword, normal arm with closed fist instead or power fist. Jobs done.

[Bryan Blaire]

Sete, to be honest, if you are using the Dark Angels, you are going to be subjected to the "secret" stuff by all lore followers, regardless of what you want for your DiY. Just to get them to survive, they are going to have to lie about who they are. The 30K Dark Angels are shrouded in mystery themselves, they aren't a real open bunch. So even if you want them to be straight forward, other DA players are likely to view them with a "what secrets is Sete trying to say they keep by being so straight-forward"? ;) Sometimes the best secrets are those thinly veiled to seem truths, but are slightly twisted from the actual truth.

 

Even Luther himself was keeping secrets, and he wasn't of the DA gene-line. It's just what the DA are made of. Simply saying that they aren't isn't going to stop that.

 

I do like what you've got so far and want to see it get more developed.

[Sete]

Not easy. A bit more info will be needed.

Its as bad as alpha legion xD.

Need more books about DA.

It seems I cannot keep them away from the falle and the secrets. But probably they will follow their own agenda. Lets say that they were trained and send out on garrison duty to somewhere and did not have any part to play on the last years of Horus Heresy, being cut from communication due to warp storms. When returning to Caliban unaware of the events that trasnpired there, would they be destroyed? No one knows about the fallen yet. Would they receive information of what happened or kept in dark? Then upon the chyper event would they be called to the meeting or due to never having served with the legion, quietly ignored? Those are my main questions. And with some feedback, considering they dont get outright exterminated I can work something. :)

Ofc they may or may not follow the DA agenda.

[Bryan Blaire]

My suggestion is that you develop them along the lines of a "tool used for other purposes, mistrusted for the Hunt but performing other important duties". They wouldn't be viewed as Fallen because they weren't on Caliban at the time it Fell and the Scattering occured.

 

Maybe they just directly say "We won't take responsibility for the actions of our Calibanite brothers, but we will watch for them" or something like that. Or possibly they are simply never made part of the Unforgiven, outsiders to the Lion's gene line, only allowed the most surface contact with their brothers.