Have I fallen into an army building rut?

[xenotaph]

 Hello Bolter and Chainsword!

 

 I think I may have fallen into a rut with adepta sororitas. Quite frankly, my lists comprise of 1 particular unit of each force org type and copy and paste until my points are filled (basically cannoness, 3 exorcists, 2 or 3 melta dominions in MM immo, and fill up points with multiple BSS with 2 melta in MM immos, an ADL with aegis, with either an Imperial Knight Paladin or an allied astra militarum force (consisting of Tank commander in bare bones leman russ with another leman russ and a vet squad).

 

 I never used to be this way. For instance I used to play with a squad of retributers (most of the time heavy bolter and sometimes with heavy flamers in an immo instead) but found that 3 exorcists gave me a more balanced missle shot profile and I never used them again.  Same way with a squad of seraphim, finding I would rather have another dominion squad.  

 

  My tactics eventually changed to where the bulk of the heavy lifting is being done with the vehicles and that the sisters stayed inside the vehicles as long as possible (only getting out when the transport is destroyed or when something is close enough that the extra firepower would wipe the unit (while planning to get back in the next turn. 5 sisters in the open do not last long at all)).  Allying in strong long range firepower allows me to expand my threat coverage and has become a crucial key in my standard tactics. 

 

  So now, I look at pieces of my collection that never get used (penitent engines and repentia especially) and I struggle to think of a way to utilize them properly in the way I run sisters now.   I also toyed with the notion with a 10 strong BSS in a rhino instead but it seems just too expensive pointswise for what it does and giving up a twinlinked multimelta shot for it as well.

 

 Have any of you fallen into that same sort of routine with your army lists?

 

 Lately I have wondered if I am actually done with collecting the sororitas because I would be adding units that I would never play (why get more penitent engines if the 3 I have never get played, etc) or to build a gimmicky list that probably would be only used once (I have always been fascinated by the idea of 9 penitent engines backed up with 3 full squads of repentia with an imperial knight detachment but would probably play horridly). For those with a sizable sororitas army already; what keeps you collecting?

 

 

Xeno

 

 

[Eddie Orlock]

What I tended to do was take a long view of what GeeDub was likely to present as the 'Core Identity' of the faction and collect that up to some substantial level of redundancy.

 

Failing or completing that I'd start in on being able to field an example of every unit in every viable configuration in the codex.

 

Again failing or completing this I'd then start devising forces that I found 'interesting' for various values of the word 'interesting'. There was about half a year when I regularly wandered into the shop with Four Land Raiders in 1650 points. While this might sound like the very height of beardy canny foes soon realized that with so much invested in being nigh invulnerable to most arms it very much lacked for teeth. A deficit that I'd noted at times made it mathematically impossible to destroy the opposing force within the time allowed by the game. Also, losing one tank was a quarter of the force. I played this force because it was a challenge to actually win with. At other times I crafted forces that were interesting by virtue of being comprised only of 'irregular' forces. All the various WD's on militias, Inquisitors, and other Imperial Agents.

 

I guess what I sounds like is that you've done the first bit, and the second bit, I recommend doing the third bit. You mention idly speculating on how to make 9 penitent engines work. Bring this into reality and do it. I guarantee it'll be interesting, the challenge will make you think and renew your mental investment. Play all the different army configurations that strike your whimsy. What's the worst that could happen, you might lose a match? What if you won the uphill struggle, think how much sweeter the experience will be.

[WarriorFish]

I can see where you're coming from. GW only gives us so much as we're running on older stuff, but I don't feel this is an issue because I think all units are usable. Even if you don't, this sounds like the perfect chance to experiment and see :) Ruts are something you get yourself into without realising so only you can get out again. Start creating a new list and throw out your old rules!

 

Even if it doesn't work so what? Knowing an army is more than a single play style, and it might improve your game with that style anyway. Knowledge is power after all ;)

[Sororita Katya]

You have brought up many interesting points, so I shall try to answer as many as possible, as well as give you some questions to ponder :)

 

I think something that may be draining you is the idea that sosters only have one genuine competitive build otherwise you have to throw in allies.

 

Although this is was the Internet masses would like you to think this is certainly not the case. Are we limited with our codex options? Of course but that doesn't make us unviable.

 

You were stating that three exorcists would be the only way for you to go. Do you not believe a squad of Retributors played aggressively would be a good option? I constantly use mine as objective holders in my end, they take and very little can budge them in cover, let alone if the objective gives sky fire then they're doubly blessed!

Dominions are once again excellent but must be played aggressively to get their points back.

As for penitents and repentia, it's all about threat levels, I always run three penitents and they always do really well, either absorbing fire like the heathen within deserves or if they reach basic or elite foots loggers then they better watch out, even light to mid range tanks. Repentia are harder, they need to move and hit things fast, land raiders make them very viable (if you can keep the raider alive, if not then a storm raven. If you are playing proper 40k then you can always do a city run ducking and weaving through terrain as well (this is also very fluffy!) the only stuff that I think the sisters "need" in terms of allies is a knight or grey Knights for close combat or extra long range assistance.

But in honesty they do well on their own even for their age.

 

But onto my questions,

Are you sure the playability of the sisters isn't a cover for you actually just getting sick of the faction? With GW's limited love towards us it's completely understandable in the format to get sick of a static force compared to the ever changing codices of the other branches.

 

Furthermore do you have any urge to create a fluffy group or chapter that you want to make regardless of its competitiveness ( I am a crazy like you who hopes one day to have 9 penitent engines as well ;) )

[Blackarmor_redtruth]

Another few things to consider, that I have found myself falling into, is the ease of information that flows to us. This influences us and our beliefs (Heritic!), so seeing a lot of something, like similar armies or builds, posted online will give the tendency for us to think that is the only way it can be done. Forums that give multiple views and meta comparisons are great to combat that IMO. Try some of your old lists, or copy some lists here and give them a try. Sure, a squad of kitted out Celestians will be a challenge, but if you're in a rut then it could be a great way to get out.

 

Other above have it well too, we can only work with what GW gives us. If your group is open to experimentation, see if you can use an older dex or even a fandex.

 

Lastly, I second the heavy bolter retributor squad, I love them so!

[Willy Pete]

One problem that I found was that, for about the last 20 years, I was the only Sisters player around. My force was pretty heavily meched out, (and once Repressors became a thing, oh yeah). Since that worked for me, I didn't see any need to change it. Now, however, there's another Sisters player. He likes to take a blob squad with Jacobus and five priests. I had looked at priests, and hadn't been impressed, but Mark showed me otherwise. His damned blob squad would engage a unit, and then it Just Wouldn't Go Away! With a 5+ invul, automatic War Hymns, automatic Acts of Faith, Smash and Fearless, it would just bog down some of my toughest units from my different armies. It gave me a new appreciation for alternate builds. Go ahead and try some builds that you think might not be competitive, you just might be surprised at how good they can be.:)

And it nothing else, changing up your force can confuse your enemies, and maybe give you an edge.

[Naminé]

The first thing I'd suggest is try ditching your Exorcists from your lists for a while, and tame a good look at other options. Why are you not trying out your Penitent Engines? Those things are amazing :)

 

The change will force you to take a new approach and focus in how you play, and you might stumble upon a new way that grips you.

[xenotaph]

 First off I would like to thank all of you for the your time in writing great responses. I really should go 

and respond to each post and even though I mentioned 3 posters specifically; I think I have responded to them

indirectly by folding in points from my  other responses. 

 

Sororita Katya,

  You made a very interesting point about being drained. I remember back in 3rd there was the fabled 

'take all comers' list. With everything added to the game since then there is no such thing now in my opinion.

Lists appear to me have evolved to do one thing and one thing well and just accept the fact that one will face 

hard counters and nothing can be done about it. Flyers appear to be my weakness in the games where I have played

against them. I usually have enough to deal with 1 and possibly 2 but when I face flyers it is at least 3 

(space marine flyers especially irritate me with the immunity to melta). I would love to be able to pay for 

skyfire on exorcists which is a shame really. I think of all the units the sororitas have that it would be the one

most likely unit to have it. A side note, when targeting flyers with an exorcist,I roll for the number of shots fired before my 

opponent decides to jink or not so I am curious if that is what other sororitas players do as well.

 

  Another thing that I have found personally is that the new missions ruin immersion for me especially 

maelstrom missions; they just feel especially gamey for me. I don't have fun in those games because of it

and especially dislike game mechanics like first blood. I don't think having 5-7 turns is enough to really 

do an objective game justice either but I am probably in the minority here.

 

  With that said, I don't think I am tired of the faction more so than getting tired of my impression that 

GW thinks that adding more random elements makes the game 'fun and balanced'. As far as an urge to create a fluffy group

or chapter? I don't think I am in that realm anymore because I am of the thought that whatever I build, gw will

just make it unplayable next army update (Maybe that is a little overdramatic. lol). With that being said, my

pipe dream would to be able to field a 2k army of each faction (well maybe not the subfactions). 

 

  I am curious on how you would run 9 penitent engines Katya (even though the thought of building even 

one more PE makes me want to sick up. lol)

 

Willy,

 

   Interesting. I do have 45 regular bolter sisters of which only half seen play so I do have access to 

enough regular sisters to blob things up. I personally dislike using special characters but I do have priests.

(It ruins my immersion in the game. Named characters are also a reason I don't play WM and Xwing. Its just a personal hangup

I have). 

 

  

Namine,

 

   I have enough heavy bolters for one retributer squad. Does anybody ever play with more than one? Maybe 

I have been using exorcists as a crutch (when I think about it,the average damage profile of an exorcist

is possibly equivalent to a las-las predator (havent run the numbers, just thinking off the top of my head).

It is quite possible that my need for the exorcists are illusory when I think of an exorcist in that light.

 

xeno

[Sororita Katya]

If flyers are screwing you round then you definitely have to play a cannoness in a quad gun of an aegis with the rets holding the back board. It works for me really well even against pesky marine formations. By going by RAW, you only declare the attack, you don't have to roll for missiles fired until after they declare their jink, I call shenanigans if they're making you roll for missiles and then deciding.

 

I am in the same boat with missions, I would rather have objectives (even changing each turn like the current system) but still having a major objective or extermination as the main battle. I also agree about turn countdowns, as a group we play until the enemy concedes or is wiped out. Just because they are wiped out doesn't mean they can't gain a victory (objectives captured, generals killed etc) but I think that adds to the immersion instead of just guns down on the fifth turn and the remaining Eldar and necrons shake hands lol, that seems silly to me.

 

Well seeing they have nothing that can be bought for them I would run the pens in groups of three terrain hopping their way to butcher the enemy, and using them as a fire shield as if they don't take them down they will do a lot of damage.

 

My aim is for around 5,000 points of sisters by the end, that way I should be able to field any variation comfortably :)

[Naminé]

Exorcists are purely a support fire unit, made more precious by their strength, potential damage and range they offer our army. I will go on record and state that no one NEEDS to use any Exorcists in their lists... They aren't even that killy in the majority of cases.

The points saved can be used on other units with a very different role, such as close combat or harrassment units, perhaps even allies for the laughs... really, the choice is yours! If your army's playstyle has gotten boring, find a new way to play :)

[dracpanzer]

I found myself in much the same spot a while back. Faced with the thought of playing games that no matter the opponent, scenario, terrain, painted armies, what have you. I would approach them the same way and winning or losing about turn three I would rather be doing just about anything else.

 

Long story short, you can keep doing so until you eventually throw in the whole thing. Or, you can ditch the need to keep playing the units you have been just because you find them the most effective math hammer wise. Try playing the very units you used to find fun. Play units that you know will present a challenge going in.

 

I find repentia and pen engines backed up with a host of seraphim to be entertaining. A horde of sisters blobs rolling forward covered by retributors is surprisingly difficult to beat back. Of course my all melee and flamer tzeentch daemon list is one of my favorites as well.

 

I went quite a while building my list from randomly selected pre made 500 point cards of different units. Each had an HQ and a troop choice, instant double cad and no idea what you were gonna end up with. Just my experience, at some point competitive gamers all lose interest in playing to win.

 

They either leave the hobby or become that particular kind of fluff bunny that gets enjoyment out of putting together winning combo's of units that either fail horribly or win amazingly but only with just the right amount of luck.

 

Play for the fun of it, or there won't be any fun left in it.

[Servant of Dante]

I go into almost every game expecting to lose (probably a factor in my losing, but I don't really care), but when I build lists it's all about the most effective way I can think of to use the units I want to use. As long as I feel my favorite units are doing something it doesn't really matter to me if I win.

 

This is even more true with my sisters. I didn't start this army because I wanted to beat my opponent into the ground every game with ease. It's all about the fluff and the characters (which I feel is true for every army in this game, but whatever).

[Aqui]

I started collecting Sisters to get out of a Marine army building rut! Still, it's always good to think out of the box and try something completely different

[Thornoo1]

As a 25 year veteran of 40k but a new player of Adepta Sororitas I will add this.  A possible reason you have fallen into taking the same list is that you simply cannot compete on a level with newer armies with greater options playing traditional matches.

 

Our gaming group acknowledges that not all 40k armies are created equal and we balance according.  We either have a 3rd person write the two lists to play, or more excitingly we write narrative campaigns to play.

 

Currently we are about to embark on a 5 game campaign set in the under-hive of Armageddon just before the invasion of Angron. With lots of chaos cultist, the odd chaos marine and daemon in this setting Adepta Sororitas are quite rightly a force to be reckoned with.  We've even co-oped Adeptus Arbites into the campaign using this excellent fandex: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?397962-Codex-Adeptus-Arbites-for-7th-Edition
.